What does "except there come a falling away first" in 2 Thess. 2:3 mean?

[Douggg]

You have everything right Douggg except the timing, an Israel never accepts the Anti-Christ as their King. The peace or fake peace is the first 3.5 years, then the Anti-Christ is REVEALED In that he Conquers Jerusalem and becomes the BEAST for 42 months. Thus the FIRST SEAL is the Wrath of God (the Lamb) who allows him to COME FORTH. Its like Jesus is saying unto the world, HERE, this is your hearts desire, an Man to worship since you all love yourselves more than God !!

By this time Israel is protected in the Wilderness, they never anoint this man as their King. He goes forth to Conquer in the FIRST SEAL. The 2nd Seal, 3rd Seal, 4th Seal and 5th Seal are side effects of the Anti-Christ Conquering Jerusalem and becoming the BEAST, as well as Conquering Islam and all the world.

These people of this world HATE GOD they don't want a Jewish Messiah, they want to worship mankind.

What about?
Jesus, King of Kings, the true messiah with many crowns rides a white horse in Revelation 19. The rider in the first seal is also on a white horse in Revelation 6, having one crown, is because the person is the thought-to-be messiah, embraced by the Jews; and given a crown because he has been anointed the King of Israel - by the false prophet.

Which is the reason for saying peace and safety in 1Thessalonians5:2-3, thinking they have entered the messainic age.

The bible doesn't have a passage about the Antichrist being "revealed". It is a matter of what the term "Christ" means, and the prefix "anti".

Mark 15:32
Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.


John 12:13
Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Jesus in John 5 said he comes in his Father's name. But they would not receive him - to be their king (inferred). But another coming in his own, they would receive.

The peace treaty notion as being the confirming of the covenant for 7 years - comes from bible commentators such as Hal Linsey, repeated over and over. I have yet to find a single bible commentator who is aware that Moses was the first to confirm the Mt. Sinai and that Moses made a requirement for all future leaders of Israel to do the same, on a 7 year shmittah cycle.

The Antichrist is simply becoming the King of Israel instead of and against the rightful King of Israel.

The 7 years of Daniel 9:27 are the same 7 years which follow Gog/Magog. If Islam and it's armies are completely destroyed in Gog/Magog - why would Israel need a peace treaty?

 

[Douggg]

He is telling you the FALLING AWAY is a fallacy, its based off of a bad translation, HOWEVER, the World will get more and more evil just as Peter and Paul both stated. REMEMBER, Satan mixes truths with lies. Just because the world gets more evil and some bring fort bad Christian Teachings, that STILL DOES NOT MEAN the Falling Away in 2 Thess. 2 is a proper teaching as written by Paul. That is his point I think. No on is denting the world becomes more and more evil as we go, just look at it, but that does not mean 2 Thess. 2 means what most people say, that its about APOSTASY, its not, its about the RAPTURE.

Even if Q were right, it does not mandate a pre-70th week rapture. The condition of the rapture in 2Thessalonians2 is only that it happens before the beginning of the Day of the Lord.

The Day of the Lord begins when the person reveals himself as the man of sin, son perdition (not as being the Antichrist). Which is by going into the temple sitting, claiming to have achieved God-hood in the middle part of the 70 week - not at the beginning.

So the church may still be here during the early stages of the 70th week right up to almost the middle.

Both John and Paul were addressing Christians in their day falling away - which is the mystery of iniquity, which Paul said was already at work. Another indication that falling away means falling away not rapture.

The problem is in part that most Christians are not aware of what Israel, the Jews, think about the messiah, the messianic age, and what is the eventual outcome of Christianity. The Jews believe that when the "real messiah" arrives, it will be so apparent that Christianity will simply fade away. Which
corresponds to the falling away from Christianity(which will reinforce to Jews what Jews now believe), and Israel and the world saying peace and safety in 1Thessalonians5:2-3 of a false messianic age.

Right before the Day of the Lord begins when the Antichrist, King of Israel, 3 years 3 months into his reign betrays Israel, the Jews, going into the temple, sitting, claiming to have achieved God-hood - revealing himself as the man of sin, son of perdition (betrayal).

 

[Revealing Times]

What about?
Jesus, King of Kings, the true messiah with many crowns rides a white horse in Revelation 19. The rider in the first seal is also on a white horse in Revelation 6, having one crown, is because the person is the thought-to-be messiah, embraced by the Jews; and given a crown because he has been anointed the King of Israel - by the false prophet.

White Horse throughout history means "Conqueror" so Jesus conquers via the holy spirit and the AC conquers. He is not the Messiah or seen as the Messiah Douggg or he wouldn't need to conquer sir. He is never anointed King of Israel, you are going to be disappointed in heave when you finally understand you sent out the wring message to the masses who do not need confusion, they are confused enough.

Which is the reason for saying peace and safety in 1Thessalonians5:2-3, thinking they have entered the messainic age.

Peace and safety means they entered into an "Arms agreement with the Anti-Christ" it doesn't mean they accept him as their Messiah. I mean your thinking doesn't even make sense Doug even the Jews know their Messiah comes via landing on the Mt. of Olives causing a GREAT EARTHQUAKE, and he can not come until three great earthquakes happen, and the sun must be darkened first, the moon must turn t blood first and the stars must fall from heaven first. Thus the Anti-Christ who makes his deals before hand, CAN NOT BE SEEN AS THE MESSIAH Douggg, you act like the Jews don't understand their own bible !! Come on.

The bible doesn't have a passage about the Antichrist being "revealed". It is a matter of what the term "Christ" means, and the prefix "anti".

The Man of Sin is the Anti-Christ and thus he is REVEALED.....2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

We can call him the Concrete id we want to, its all the same to me.

Mark 15:32
Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.


John 12:13
Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

And these prove what? That Israel was FAITHLESS without a SIGN? We already know that.

Jesus in John 5 said he comes in his Father's name. But they would not receive him - to be their king (inferred). But another coming in his own, they would receive.

That was fulfilled in the First Century before 70 AD.

The peace treaty notion as being the confirming of the covenant for 7 years - comes from bible commentators such as Hal Linsey, repeated over and over. I have yet to find a single bible commentator who is aware that Moses was the first to confirm the Mt. Sinai and that Moses made a requirement for all future leaders of Israel to do the same, on a 7 year shmittah cycle.

The Antichrist is simply becoming the King of Israel instead of and against the rightful King of Israel.

The 7 years of Daniel 9:27 are the same 7 years which follow Gog/Magog. If Islam and it's armies are completely destroyed in Gog/Magog - why would Israel need a peace treaty?

Its not a Holy Covenant, its a AGREEMENT BETWEEN NATIONS. Covenant means AGREEMENT.

Gog and Magog are shown as After the 1000 years in Revelation.

 

[Revealing Times]

Even if Q were right, it does not mandate a pre-70th week rapture. The condition of the rapture in 2Thessalonians2 is only that it happens before the beginning of the Day of the Lord.

The Day of the Lord begins when the person reveals himself as the man of sin, son perdition (not as being the Antichrist). Which is by going into the temple sitting, claiming to have achieved God-hood in the middle part of the 70 week - not at the beginning.

So the church may still be here during the early stages of the 70th week right up to almost the middle.

The Church Departs BEFORE the Man of Sin is Revealed as the Beast, correct, but you miss the other signs. The Jewish Bride and the Groom spend SEVEN DAYS in the Bridal Chambers. The 70th Week has been on hiatus since Jesus' death, the Church is the reason why, the mantle was passed unto the Church, it was the time of the HARVEST (Pentecost) Jesus fulfilled the Passover, the Unleavened Bread and the First-fruits Feasts...........We are in the Church Age (Pentecost) and thus when the LAST TRUMP SOUNDS the Church is called home to marry the Lamb. Thus the FEAST OF TRUMPS ends Pentecost and ANNOUNCES that the Feast of Atonement is NIGH AT HAND. Who needs to Atone? Israel, not the Church we LEAVE for the Bridal Chambers. Its a Seven Year (7 Day Event) Event.

Israel is placed back on the Clock in their 70th Week Judgment, they MUST ATONE before the 70th Week is up.

Feast of Atonement is fulfilled, Israel REPENTS, God protects them in the Wilderness for 1260 Days, He would not protect them if they had not REPENTED !! Thus they are protected for the exact number of days the BEAST Rules over Jerusalem (1260 Days = 42 Months). Israel turns back unto their God by accepting Jesus as their Messiah.

Feast of Tabernacle is Israel dwelling with God/Jesus in the 1000 year reign. To Tabernacle means to DWELL WITH GOD !!

This is why its Seven Years Mr. Douggg. Its not just a guess brother. Its God doing things the way only He does them.

Both John and Paul were addressing Christians in their day falling away - which is the mystery of iniquity, which Paul said was already at work. Another indication that falling away means falling away not rapture.

Not in 2 Thess. 2 they weren't. They were speaking about the RAPTURE.

The problem is in part that most Christians are not aware of what Israel, the Jews, think about the messiah, the messianic age, and what is the eventual outcome of Christianity. The Jews believe that when the "real messiah" arrives, it will be so apparent that Christianity will simply fade away. Which
corresponds to the falling away from Christianity(which will reinforce to Jews what Jews now believe), and Israel and the world saying peace and safety in 1Thessalonians5:2-3 of a false messianic age.

Right before the Day of the Lord begins when the Antichrist, King of Israel, 3 years 3 months into his reign betrays Israel, the Jews, going into the temple, sitting, claiming to have achieved God-hood - revealing himself as the man of sin, son of perdition (betrayal).

It doesn't matter what their FALSE ASSUMPTIONS are, only what their TRUE ASSUMPTIONS ARE. They know the Messiah lands on the Mt. of Olives. They assume he is not Jesus now, but they accept Jesus Christ as their Messiah before he returns, so that false assumption you speak of now will go away.

 

[WailingWall]

To me its juvenile for Christians to not understand the Rapture.

So your saying ALL Christians before darby were juvenile. YIKES!

 

[WailingWall]

We go to Heaven to Marry the Lamb

JEREMIAH 3 [11] And the LORD said unto me, THE BACKSLIDING ISRAEL hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah.[12] Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever.[13] Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD.[14] TURN, O BACKSLIDING CHILDREN, SAITH THE LORD; FOR I AM MARRIED UNTO YOU: AND I WILL TAKE YOU ONE OF A CITY, AND TWO OF A FAMILY, AND I WILL BRING YOU TO ZION:

Ive already heard there must be 3 resurrections in order for the rapture to stand when scripture says theres only 2. Please dont try and try and tell me theres 2 brides needed for the rapture to stand. The bride is bein taken to Zion, Jerusalem, His Holy Mountain

 

[WailingWall]

We are in the Church Age (Pentecost) and thus when the LAST TRUMP SOUNDS the Church is called home to marry the Lamb.

Yeah RT!

MATTHEW 24 [29]IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send his angels with A GREAT SOUND OF A TRUMPET, and THEY SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

AFTER the tribulation - LAST trumpet sounds - Gathering of His people in the twinkling of an eye

 

[Quasar92]

You're right, I have no argument. I only have a question, which hasn't been answered yet.

So here it is again: How could the Reformers have believed in rapture when they declared that the Church was already suffering under antichrist?

You are a real case. I have asked you for a response to my post #161 several times without results. Since you are unable to do so, because you deny the Scriptures that teach it, in addition to making prophecy, history.

Ten four!


Quasar92

 

[jgr]

You are a real case. I have asked you for a response to my post #161 several times without results. Since you are unable to do so, because you deny the Scriptures that teach it, in addition to making prophecy, history.

Ten four!


Quasar92

I've provided all of the answers that I've been able to. You don't agree with them, but they are what they are. So now, what answer can you provide to my question?

 

[Douggg]

White Horse throughout history means "Conqueror" so Jesus conquers via the holy spirit and the AC conquers. He is not the Messiah or seen as the Messiah Douggg or he wouldn't need to conquer sir. He is never anointed King of Israel, you are going to be disappointed in heave when you finally understand you sent out the wring message to the masses who do not need confusion, they are confused enough.

Well, you are not aware of what the criteria of the messiah is according to the Rambam - the Jewish theologian, the Jews go by. According to the Rambam, the mashiach is supposed to fight the battles of God in defending Israel.

From Judaism 101.org on the topic of the messiah...

The mashiach will be a great political leader descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5). The mashiach is often referred to as "mashiach ben David" (mashiach, son of David). He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5). He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. He will be a great military leader, who will win battles for Israel.

RT, the person is going to start out as the little horn leader of the EU - that will make him great political leader in the eyes of the Jews. When Gog/Magog appears imminent, he will station his EU army in Greece as a deterent. Which the bible doesn't say whether he actually is involved in the destructuction of Gog's army - probably not. But following Gog/Magog, he moves his army into the middle east on the premise of peace and stability.

The Jews will intepret his action as being committed to fight Israel's enemies - and will be seen as a great military leader. And will perceive him to be their messiah that God sends to begin the messianic age of peace and safety.

Peace and safety means they entered into an "Arms agreement with the Anti-Christ" it doesn't mean they accept him as their Messiah. I mean your thinking doesn't even make sense Doug even the Jews know their Messiah comes via landing on the Mt. of Olives causing a GREAT EARTHQUAKE, and he can not come until three great earthquakes happen, and the sun must be darkened first, the moon must turn t blood first and the stars must fall from heaven first. Thus the Anti-Christ who makes his deals before hand, CAN NOT BE SEEN AS THE MESSIAH Douggg, you act like the Jews don't understand their own bible !! Come on.

RT, the Jews don't think their messiah splits the Mt. of Olives. They think the language of the Lord's feet standing on the Mt of Olives is figuratively of God splitting the mount of Olives, supernaturally, just like the strong arm of the Lord. The messiah in Judaism's belief is that he is totally human.

Not in 2 Thess. 2 they weren't. They were speaking about the RAPTURE.

Paul in 2Thessalonians2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

The falling away from Christianity was already taking place back then. The mystery of iniquity already at work certainly was not tied to the rapture back then, but the falling away.

The Man of Sin is the Anti-Christ and thus he is REVEALED....

The person is the Antichrist (King of Israel) BEFORE he reveals himself to be the man of sin. When he commits the act, it will be the last thing he does as the Antichrist.

And these prove what? That Israel was FAITHLESS without a SIGN? We already know that.

Mark 15:32 makes it clear that the concept of Christ is the promised great king of Israel to lead the Jews and world into the messianic age - "Christ the King of Israel". And makes it clear that Anti- Christ means the person who will become the King of Israel (instead of and against the rightful King of Israel - Jesus) with that intent in mind, of leading Israel and the world into the messianic age of peace and safety.

The Church Departs BEFORE the Man of Sin is Revealed as the Beast, correct, but you miss the other signs. The Jewish Bride and the Groom spend SEVEN DAYS in the Bridal Chambers. The 70th Week has been on hiatus since Jesus' death, the Church is the reason why, the mantle was passed unto the Church, it was the time of the HARVEST (Pentecost) Jesus fulfilled the Passover, the Unleavened Bread and the First-fruits Feasts...........We are in the Church Age (Pentecost) and thus when the LAST TRUMP SOUNDS the Church is called home to marry the Lamb. Thus the FEAST OF TRUMPS ends Pentecost and ANNOUNCES that the Feast of Atonement is NIGH AT HAND. Who needs to Atone? Israel, not the Church we LEAVE for the Bridal Chambers. Its a Seven Year (7 Day Event) Event.

Do you realize you are pinpointing the rapture to take place on the day the 7years begin?

Separately, you have some things mixed up - saying "the man of sin is revealed as the beast". RT, you have not got it straight in your head yet, I don't think - the different distinct roles the person will go through on the timeline.

little horn, then...
prince who shall come, then....
the Antichrist, then.....
the revealed man of sin, then....
the beast

That's only 4 stages, or roles, he goes through. The only stage that the word "revealed" is used in the bible is when the Antichrist reveals himself to be the man of sin, in 2Thessalonians2:4.

But you are throwing the word "revealed" around haphazardly. You need to clean that up. (please don't take my comment too harshly). I just think you can do better.

 

[Quasar92]

I've provided all of the answers that I've been able to. You don't agree with them, but they are what they are. So now, what answer can you provide to my question?

Please direct me to your response to my post #161. When you do, I will have more for you to address by Scripture. Not by your opinions.


Quasar92

 

[jgr]

Please direct me to your response to my post #161. When you do, I will have more for you to address by Scripture. Not by your opinions.


Quasar92

Post #157.

 

[Quasar92]

Post #157.

From post #5:

>>>In verse 3: "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th and final Week, the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original translation was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church] occurs and the man of lawlessness [The antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] is revealed [Who triggers the Day of the Lord/ the 70th and final Week/ the seven year tribulation], the man doomed to destruction." Which reveals the "apostasia" [Departure] will take place before the antichrist is revealed, who triggers the 70th Week/seven year tribulation. Confirmed in verses 7 and 8 below.

Translation History of apostasia and discessio: By Thomas Ice, PhD.
The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) . This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.' Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure" in 1611 A.D.? [It is more than likely due to overzealous RCC scribes who altered the original wording of vs 3. to accommodate their teachings of Amillenialism, which rejects both the pre-trib rapture of the Church as well as Jesus Millennial reign here on earth].

The above explains the present day mistranslation of bibles using the terms: apostasy; falling away and rebellion, instead of the original term, departure, in 2 Thess.2:3. Restated in verse 7 by Paul, with the restrainer being taken out of the way. Meaning, the agent for the Holy Spirit here on earth, the Church, identified as the restrainer. The passage refers to the rapture of the Church, NOT a falling away.


Quasar92

 

[jgr]

From post #5:

>>>In verse 3: "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th and final Week, the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original translation was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church] occurs and the man of lawlessness [The antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] is revealed [Who triggers the Day of the Lord/ the 70th and final Week/ the seven year tribulation], the man doomed to destruction." Which reveals the "apostasia" [Departure] will take place before the antichrist is revealed, who triggers the 70th Week/seven year tribulation. Confirmed in verses 7 and 8 below.

Translation History of apostasia and discessio: By Thomas Ice, PhD.
The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) . This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.' Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure" in 1611 A.D.? [It is more than likely due to overzealous RCC scribes who altered the original wording of vs 3. to accommodate their teachings of Amillenialism, which rejects both the pre-trib rapture of the Church as well as Jesus Millennial reign here on earth].

The above explains the present dau mistranslation of bibles using the terms: apostasy; falling away and rebellion, instead of the original term, departure, in 2 Thess.2:3. Restated in verse 7 by Paul, with the restrainer being taken out of the way. Meaning, the agent for the Holy Spirit here on earth, the Church, identified as the restrainer. The passage refers to the rapture of the Church, NOT a falling away.


Quasar92

Still does not answer my question.

How could the Reformers have believed in rapture when they declared that the Church was already suffering under antichrist?

 

[Quasar92]

Still does not answer my question.

How could the Reformers have believed in rapture when they declared that the Church was already suffering under antichrist?

FYI, if the Reformers believed they were suffering under the antichrist, you can be certain, it WAS NOT the Antichrist Satan will give his throne, power and great authority to, recorded in Rev.13:1-2. That is prophecy that has not yet taken place, not something that has already taken place.

According to 2 Thess.2:3, the Church DEPARTS, BEFORE the Antichrist of Rev.13:1-2 is revealed. That passage of Scripture is reinforced in 2 Thess.2:7, where the Church is TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY, BEFORE the Antichrist of Rev.13:1-2 is revealed in verse 8.

Which reveals, the Reformers eschatology was well out of whack.


Quasar92

 

[jgr]

FYI, if the Reformers believed they were suffering under the antichrist, you can be certain, it WAS NOT the Antichrist Satan will give his throne, power and great authority to, recorded in Rev.13:1-2. That is prophecy that has not yet taken place, not something that has already taken place.

According to 2 Thess.2:3, the Church DEPARTS, BEFORE the Antichrist of Rev.13:1-2 is revealed. That passage of Scripture is reinforced in 2 Thess.2:7, where the Church is TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY, BEFORE the Antichrist of Rev.13:1-2 is revealed in verse 8.

Which reveals, the Reformers eschatology was well out of whack.


Quasar92

Thanks for your response.

The Reformers certainly did believe that the true Church was suffering under an apostate antichrist. It was one of the foundational doctrines of the Reformation, and is ubiquitous in their declarations.

The issue is not whether the antichrist which they recognized was the right one or the wrong one, but rather how they could have been interpreting the departure of 2 Thessalonians 2:3 as rapture, while at the same time declaring that the true Church was suffering under an apostate antichrist (irrespective of whether the right one or wrong one).

The answer is that they could not. The two propositions are diametrically incompatible. Their departure of 2 Thessalonians 2:3 was a departure from the faith, i.e. apostasy, and their observations and experiences, often to the death, under that apostasy, were confirmation of the accuracy of their prophetic insights.

Out of whack their eschatology was not.

 

[Tayla]

This passage has been the subject of much controversy, as to whether this speaks of a period of great "apostasy", or whether it refers to the "departure", or "Rapture" of the Church.

All passages used to describe conditions in a yet-future 1,000 year millennium are actually referring to the eternal utopian new heavens and new earth. There will not be a yet-future 1,000 year millennium, nor a rapture. All verses used to support the rapture are actually referring to the yet-future second coming of Christ.

 

[seventysevens]

The reason why some people refuse to accept that 2 Thess. 2:3 would mean that a rapture would occur is simply because they don't want to hear that or believe that ,

so the teaching of this scripture has been to say that Christians would fall away from the faith and become apostate Christians -people who no longer believe in Christ and longer associate with the church - though some have they really did not love Jesus ,they left because someone in the church hurt them

The real fact is that there is a massive uptake in new Christians all over the world , countries like China that have a massively huge population and were largely atheists because their government would not allow any religion especially Christianity practiced in their country , but due to many people risking their freedom and risking their very lives to get bibles into China , China now has fastest growing populations accepting Jesus as savoir .
Whereas in the USA the scripture
2 Timothy 4:3
NIV
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

Has taken root and more people refuse to accept biblical truth such as the Rapture - 1000 year reign of Christ on earth and rejection of other biblical truths

We rarely hear preachers preaching REPENTANCE or being Born-Again like it had been taught for 2000 years but it being taught in other countries

People want to be told what they want to hear - like give $1000 and get a 100 fold return in profits, just be a good person....... there has been a departure of accepting sound doctrine -rejecting doctrine that was taught through history up until recent generation of new lame willy nilly preachers who care not about preaching truth

 

[jgr]

The reason why some people refuse to accept that 2 Thess. 2:3 would mean that a rapture would occur is simply because they don't want to hear that or believe that ,

so the teaching of this scripture has been to say that Christians would fall away from the faith and become apostate Christians -people who no longer believe in Christ and longer associate with the church - though some have they really did not love Jesus ,they left because someone in the church hurt them

The real fact is that there is a massive uptake in new Christians all over the world , countries like China that have a massively huge population and were largely atheists because their government would not allow any religion especially Christianity practiced in their country , but due to many people risking their freedom and risking their very lives to get bibles into China , China now has fastest growing populations accepting Jesus as savoir .
Whereas in the USA the scripture
2 Timothy 4:3
NIV
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

Has taken root and more people refuse to accept biblical truth such as the Rapture - 1000 year reign of Christ on earth and rejection of other biblical truths

We rarely hear preachers preaching REPENTANCE or being Born-Again like it had been taught for 2000 years but it being taught in other countries

People want to be told what they want to hear - like give $1000 and get a 100 fold return in profits, just be a good person....... there has been a departure of accepting sound doctrine -rejecting doctrine that was taught through history up until recent generation of new lame willy nilly preachers who care not about preaching truth

There is no record of an enduring rapture doctrine in 18 centuries of the New Testament true Church.

Virtually none of the historical scholars, apologists, commentators, or defenders of the true faith heard of or believed in a rapture. Somehow the overwhelming majority of them missed it.

But you'll notice that virtually every prosperity evangelist today also believes in a rapture.

It is a modernist doctrine.

 

[seventysevens]

There is no record of an enduring rapture doctrine in 18 centuries of the New Testament true Church.

Virtually none of the historical scholars, apologists, commentators, or defenders of the true faith heard of or believed in a rapture. Somehow the overwhelming majority of them missed it.

But you'll notice that virtually every prosperity evangelist today also believes in a rapture.

It is a modernist doctrine.

Not everything God said would happen is called a doctrine , in Acts 8 Philip was raptured/caught away/harpazo , God said it happened , there was not a teaching that it would happen - it just happened -Suddenly without warning and yet it is TRUE same with what is Paul and Jesus spoke about the catching away.
the Rapture is written in GODS WORD since the day it was written thousands of years ago

your comment is evidence of exactly what I am referring to , you have not accepted Gods Word as truth as you have chosen to believe something other than what Gods Word says
Your problem is that you look to commentators , and such to understand Gods Word , you accept mens interpretation , pray and Ask the person who gave the Word to be written
the vast majority of people who lived in bible time did not know how to read or write , they were poor people who accepted the scripture as it is written , where as you look to the puffed up minds of commentators

Proverbs 26:12 Do you see a person wise in their own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for them.

1 Corinthians 1:27

But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;