WHAT DOES 1 COR 15:29 MEAN TO US ?

Dan Perez

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Hi to all and many dispensationalist say that Paul WATER BAPTIZED an even say that Paul was saved under the KINGDOM PROGRAM !!

What doe Paul mean in 1 Cor 15:29 , and reads Else what SHALL they do which are BAPTIZED / BAPTIZO for the DEAD if the DEAD rise nor at all ??

why are they then BAPTIZO / BAPTIZED for the DEAD ??

Ia this WATER BAPTISM ?

Or HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM ??

What say you ??

Sorry as I as I accidentally printed 2 !!

dan p
 
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For years I thought that that meant that it would be useless to be baptized in the name of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus if he had not been resurrected.

Now I am no longer so certain.....

Your Purgatory idea seems more accurate than heaven vs hell?


Do NDE accounts remind you of the idea of Purgatory?
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  3. I am not sure... but I will look into this.
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    I am not Catholic yet but I have been wondering about this very idea.
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Presbyterian Continuist

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Hi to all and many dispensationalist say that Paul WATER BAPTIZED an even say that Paul was saved under the KINGDOM PROGRAM !!

What doe Paul mean in 1 Cor 15:29 , and reads Else what SHALL they do which are BAPTIZED / BAPTIZO for the DEAD if the DEAD rise nor at all ??

why are they then BAPTIZO / BAPTIZED for the DEAD ??

Ia this WATER BAPTISM ?

Or HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM ??

What say you ??

Sorry as I as I accidentally printed 2 !!

dan p
Paul was not talking about Christian baptism but of a pagan practice of baptism for the dead. He never taught that baptism should be done for the dead, but rather emphasised the uselessness of the pagan practice if the resurrection never happened.
 
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Dan Perez

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Paul was not talking about Christian baptism but of a pagan practice of baptism for the dead. He never taught that baptism should be done for the dead, but rather emphasised the uselessness of the pagan practice if the resurrection never happened.


Hi and I never have heard of that practice ??

Do you have a verse where Paul speaks of that pagan practice ??

dan p
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Hi to all and many dispensationalist say that Paul WATER BAPTIZED an even say that Paul was saved under the KINGDOM PROGRAM !!

What doe Paul mean in 1 Cor 15:29 , and reads Else what SHALL they do which are BAPTIZED / BAPTIZO for the DEAD if the DEAD rise nor at all ??

why are they then BAPTIZO / BAPTIZED for the DEAD ??

Ia this WATER BAPTISM ?

Or HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM ??

What say you ??

Sorry as I as I accidentally printed 2 !!

dan p
This is a difficult passage to understand and you must read the entire chapter to get the context of what Paul is saying. Then you need to decipher Paul's language as Peter told us to. "His letters contain some things that are hard to understand" .
What Paul is saying is Jesus Christ of Nazareth is the first fruit. He died and rose. He was resurrected. There is a heated dialog between those who don't understand why there is even a resurrection of the dead in the first place! So as the conversation continues, he says why would a person be Baptized into the Body of Christ when there is no outcome for the believer? Resurrection and everlasting life? So Paul turns it around on them, like he usually does with an ignorant crowd, and simply states...why would Christ die and rise again if it was not meant to be the same for all in the Body of Christ.
 
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Dan Perez

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This is a difficult passage to understand and you must read the entire chapter to get the context of what Paul is saying. Then you need to decipher Paul's language as Peter told us to. "His letters contain some things that are hard to understand" .
What Paul is saying is Jesus Christ of Nazareth is the first fruit. He died and rose. He was resurrected. There is a heated dialog between those who don't understand why there is even a resurrection of the dead in the first place! So as the conversation continues, he says why would a person be Baptized into the Body of Christ when there is no outcome for the believer? Resurrection and everlasting life? So Paul turns it around on them, like he usually does with an ignorant crowd, and simply states...why would Christ die and rise again if it was not meant to be the same for all in the Body of Christ.


Hi and I believe you are leaning towards Rom 6:3 and 4 !!

Resurrection is one of the KEYS for sure !!

dan p

R
Hi to all and many dispensationalist say that Paul WATER BAPTIZED an even say that Paul was saved under the KINGDOM PROGRAM !!

What doe Paul mean in 1 Cor 15:29 , and reads Else what SHALL they do which are BAPTIZED / BAPTIZO for the DEAD if the DEAD rise nor at all ??

why are they then BAPTIZO / BAPTIZED for the DEAD ??

Ia this WATER BAPTISM ?

Or HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM ??

What say you ??

Sorry as I as I accidentally printed 2 !!

dan p
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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Hi and I never have heard of that practice ??

Do you have a verse where Paul speaks of that pagan practice ??

dan p
Paul must have heard of it to have referred to it. I know that modern day Mormons baptise for the dead. I suppose Google should unearth some clues. Let your fingers do the walking!
 
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Dan Perez

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Paul must have heard of it to have referred to it. I know that modern day Mormons baptise for the dead. I suppose Google should unearth some clues. Let your fingers do the walking!


Hi , I did not make that statement , and I will not search for it !!

They make a big deal of BAPTISM , and if they find one that was never water baptized , they have people who are BAPTIZED for them as a PROXY for them !!

dan p
 
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Southernscotty

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Beginning with the context, Paul has heard some Corinthian Christians deny the future bodily resurrection of believers. Given how integral Jesus’s resurrection is to the gospel, the apostle asks, “How can some of you say there is no resurrection of the dead?” (15:1–12). In light of the union of Christ and believers, if anyone denies the resurrection of Christians, he also denies the resurrection of Christ.
 
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Dan Perez

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Beginning with the context, Paul has heard some Corinthian Christians deny the future bodily resurrection of believers. Given how integral Jesus’s resurrection is to the gospel, the apostle asks, “How can some of you say there is no resurrection of the dead?” (15:1–12). In light of the union of Christ and believers, if anyone denies the resurrection of Christians, he also denies the resurrection of Christ.


Hi and I believe that ONLY believers that are BAPTIZO / PLACED by the HOLY SPIRIT into one BODY in 1 or 12:13 !!

The 1 Cor 15:29 by CONTEXT is resurrection and Paul is saying that when BAPTIZO / PLACED into His death !!

When we are BAPTISMA / WHICH MEANS A BAPTIZER ( THE HOLY SPIRIT ) all believers are BAPTIZED FOR THE DEAD and means we will all be RAISED at His COMING / PAROUSIA 2 Thess 2:1 !!

Only Paul teachs the BAPTISM FOR THE DEAD and the HOLY SPIRIT is the PROMISE !!

dan p
 
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Southernscotty

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Well certainly only the believers of Jesus Christ receive the indwelling Holy Spirit. However that is not what Paul is explaining here.
Got Question.Org States the following
Baptism for the dead is a non-biblical practice where a living person is baptized in lieu of a person that passed away, as a means of making a public profession of faith for a person that is already deceased. We can, essentially, think of it as the practice of baptizing a dead person.

The practice has as its basis the misinterpretation of 1 Corinthians 15:29: “Otherwise, what will they do, those being baptized on behalf of the dead? If the dead are not at all raised, why indeed are they baptized on behalf of the dead?” This is a difficult passage to interpret, but we do know by comparing it with the rest of Scripture that it does not mean that a dead person can be saved by someone else being baptized on his or her behalf, because baptism is not a requirement for salvation in the first place (Ephesians 2:8; Romans 3:28; 4:3; 6:3-4). The entire passage (vv. 12-29) is about the surety of the resurrection, not about baptism for the dead.

What was being baptized for the dead? It is a mysterious passage, and there have been more than thirty different interpretations put forward. 1. The plain meaning of the Greek in verse 29 is that some people are being baptized on behalf of those who have died—and if there is no resurrection, why are they doing this? 2. Either Paul is referring to a pagan custom (notice he uses they, not "we"), or to a superstitious and unscriptural practice in the Corinthian church of vicarious baptism for believers who died before being baptized. 3. Either way, he certainly does not approve of the practice; he merely says that if there is no resurrection, why would the custom take place? The Mormon practice of baptism for the dead is neither scriptural nor sensible. Baptism for the dead is a practice that was common in the pagan religions of Greece and is still practiced today by some cults; but it doesn't change a person's eternal destiny, for that is determined while he lives (Luke 16:26).
 
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Danoh

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1 Corinthians 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

The narrative of the entire chapter where that passage is found, is the following issue..

1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

In this, 1 Cor. 15:29 only ends up more complex than it need be because it is based on a doctrine unique to Paul's writings (Romans thru Philemon) that he had obviously taught the Corinthians, which is why he does not appear to explain what he means there, by his words, in 1 Cor. 15:29.

But it is based on several, interconnected doctrines taught by Paul that together form the concept he actually has in mind, there, and is merely reminding them of.

His phrase "baptized for the dead" there actually refers to living one's life FOR CHRIST; which will have been a waste of having lived out one's life in a hopeless hope, if Christ never did rise from the dead, to begin with.

He is referring to the crucified life that the Believer is BAPTIZED into, or identified with Christ in, to live out daily, FOR CHRIST, Gal. 2:20; 6: 14; Gal. 5:24; 1 Cor. 12:13; Rom. 6: 1-12, etc.

That is, that crucified life that the Believer lives out in memory of Christ's great sacrifice, but also, in gratitude to, that sure hope that Christ's death has made the Believer's and that His Resurrection has forever sealed the Believer in Christ, in, Gal. 5: 5; Titus 1:2; 3:7, etc.

Baptized for the dead refers to living that crucified life - that a person is identified with Christ in, to live out FOR Him, the moment the person believes that Christ died for one's sins.

Right then and there, the person is Baptized into or Identified with, Christ's Death, Burial, and Resurrection WITH Him.

At which point begins the Believer's crucified life FOR Christ (in gratitude to Christ's having died for one, and in gratitude also, to that sure, eternal hope that Christ's resurrection has secured for the Believer).

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Galatians 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

And so on...

Notice all that, in the following...

1 Corinthians 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1 Corinthians 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? 15:30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour? 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our LORD, I die daily. 15:32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.

They that are baptized for the dead refers to Believer's voluntarily dying daily FOR Christ.

Paul's point being that dying daily FOR Christ will have been in vain, if Christ never did rise again from the dead, to begin with.

He then adds further strength to his point by adding that if Christ did not rise from THE DEAD, then he and his fellow laborers have been dying daily FOR CHRIST, allowing themselves to end up facing all sorts of danger at the hands of Christ's enemies, for nothing.

Those many grave dangers that Paul and his fellow laborers had so often faced, then, were one more evidence that Christ did indeed rise from the dead!

Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Now there is truth able to result in spiritual revival in one's inward man!

Here, have some more of this truth - it is yours to live FOR Christ in!

2 Corinthians 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

2 Corinthians 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake; 1:30 Having the same conflict which ye saw in me, and now hear to be in me.

Amen! And Amen!

Because Romans 5:6-11!
 
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Dan Perez

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1 Corinthians 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

The narrative of the entire chapter where that passage is found, is the following issue..

1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

In this, 1 Cor. 15:29 only ends up more complex than it need be because it is based on a doctrine unique to Paul's writings (Romans thru Philemon) that he had obviously taught the Corinthians, which is why he does not appear to explain what he means there, by his words, in 1 Cor. 15:29.

But it is based on several, interconnected doctrines taught by Paul that together form the concept he actually has in mind, there, and is merely reminding them of.

His phrase "baptized for the dead" there actually refers to living one's life FOR CHRIST; which will have been a waste of having lived out one's life in a hopeless hope, if Christ never did rise from the dead, to begin with.

He is referring to the crucified life that the Believer is BAPTIZED into, or identified with Christ in, to live out daily, FOR CHRIST, Gal. 2:20; 6: 14; Gal. 5:24; 1 Cor. 12:13; Rom. 6: 1-12, etc.

That is, that crucified life that the Believer lives out in memory of Christ's great sacrifice, but also, in gratitude to, that sure hope that Christ's death has made the Believer's and that His Resurrection has forever sealed the Believer in Christ, in, Gal. 5: 5; Titus 1:2; 3:7, etc.

Baptized for the dead refers to living that crucified life - that a person is identified with Christ in, to live out FOR Him, the moment the person believes that Christ died for one's sins.

Right then and there, the person is Baptized into or Identified with, Christ's Death, Burial, and Resurrection WITH Him.

At which point begins the Believer's crucified life FOR Christ (in gratitude to Christ's having died for one, and in gratitude also, to that sure, eternal hope that Christ's resurrection has secured for the Believer).

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Galatians 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

And so on...

Notice all that, in the following...

1 Corinthians 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1 Corinthians 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? 15:30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour? 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our LORD, I die daily. 15:32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.

They that are baptized for the dead refers to Believer's voluntarily dying daily FOR Christ.

Paul's point being that dying daily FOR Christ will have been in vain, if Christ never did rise again from the dead, to begin with.

He then adds further strength to his point by adding that if Christ did not rise from THE DEAD, then he and his fellow laborers have been dying daily FOR CHRIST, allowing themselves to end up facing all sorts of danger at the hands of Christ's enemies, for nothing.

Those many grave dangers that Paul and his fellow laborers had so often faced, then, were one more evidence that Christ did indeed rise from the dead!

Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Now there is truth able to result in spiritual revival in one's inward man!

Here, have some more of this truth - it is yours to live FOR Christ in!

2 Corinthians 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

2 Corinthians 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake; 1:30 Having the same conflict which ye saw in me, and now hear to be in me.

Amen! And Amen!

Because Romans 5:6-11!


Hi Danoh and you definitely leaning towards each other in interpretation in 1 Cor 15:29 and like C R Stam said that mine will be the 29 view !!

Mine is the 30th one !!

1 Cor 12:13 we are BAOTIZO / BAPTIZED in to the BODY of CHRIST !!

When I checked the Greek text years ago , the Greek word in Rom 6:4 this being baptized for the DEAD is not the Greek Baptism bur the Greek word BAPTISMA and this means the the Holy Spirit is the Baptizer that PLACES us into the B O C !!

What I see here is that , why are we BAPTIZED for the DEAD if the dead are not Raised as Christ was Raised !!

Remember that the Greek word BAPTISMA is used some 22 times from Matthew to Ephesians !!



dan p
 
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Dan Perez

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Paul was not talking about Christian baptism but of a pagan practice of baptism for the dead. He never taught that baptism should be done for the dead, but rather emphasised the uselessness of the pagan practice if the resurrection never happened.

Hi and I just purchased a new book called FIGURES OF SPEECH by Bullinger DD and when I found his interpretation of 1 Cor 15:29 is the same as my interpretation , before reading his book and is worth the price to purchase one !!

dan p
 
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