What do you think of Kim Kardashian and Kanye West?

Not David

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Also here are some pics of their baptism.
Kim-Kardashian-1280x720.jpg
27E867D700000578-3053533-image-m-28_1429865224296.jpg
 
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Not David

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Yes, I haven’t noticed anything overt. I live near a church and other than a yearly Greek festival, they’re pretty quiet.

~Bella
Descendents of Orthodox immigrants are usually more reserved in their faith. As a catechumen, I sometimes share on social media EO content instead of sharing a pic of an avocado sandwich.
 
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Ada Lovelace

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I just posted this in another thread about Kanye West, then noticed yours on the sidebar. I'm not sure if I'm permitted to post here to share my thoughts, or if all are welcome so long as we are respectful of the faith of this section (I am :)) I'll copy and paste it and then edit it out if I'm told I need to pack up and leave, haha.

I haven't invested extensive thought into Kanye West or Kim Kardashian beyond my own glimpse when they came to my hometown church for Easter services last year, though I have listened to his newest album. The paparazzi arrived to set up well before they actually arrived, making it obvious that it was an orchestrated event. It's not uncommon for celebrities to come to our church, and for advance notice to be given ---- to the church itself. There's a security staff, plus CHP is there to direct traffic, and they have a protocol in place for ushering in famous people discreetly so they are able to worship with privacy and peace, and not generate chaos for everyone else there for church. But staff had not been notified about Kanye and Kim coming for that service. They found out due to the paparazzi.

When photos were released people were critical of the paparazzi, viewing it as intrusive that they had followed the family to church, but the opposite was the case. They did not follow the family, they were directed as to where the family would be, and even where they'd park. I felt like they used one of the most sacred worship services of the year for us as a photo op for them.

Similarly, in Kanye's new album I feel like he's hawking faith in it. That it is exploitative, a commodification of the splendor and resonance of spiritual music. It has some of the beauty of it clashing jarringly with the narcissism of Kanye's lyrics. The songs on it are strikingly different, much more shallow, self-absorbed, and kitschy, from the ones about Jesus I listened to when I was tiny. My kindergarten Sunday school class danced along to Jesus Walks. We loved it, we bopped around to it all the time, even if we didn't understand many of the lyrics then; the refrain of it resonated with us. Kanye circa the mid-2000s was a reasonable role model, but I wouldn't play his current music to my little sisters. Listening to that album brought me sadness instead of fortifying my faith in any way. Even if I didn't know about Kanye's public meltdowns I would suspect bipolar was a factor in his newest album due to the self-grandiosity of it. I feel it was an album made for followers of Kanye more than one made for followers of Christ. It's also a lyrical disaster. It's not much of an album or very Christian, despite being marketed as a Christian album.
 
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Not David

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I just posted this in another thread about Kanye West, then noticed yours on the sidebar. I'm not sure if I'm permitted to post here to share my thoughts, or if all are welcome so long as we are respectful of the faith of this section (I am :)) I'll copy and paste it and then edit it out if I'm told I need to pack up and leave, haha.

I haven't invested extensive thought into Kanye West or Kim Kardashian beyond my own glimpse when they came to my hometown church for Easter services last year, though I have listened to his newest album. The paparazzi arrived to set up well before they actually arrived, making it obvious that it was an orchestrated event. It's not uncommon for celebrities to come to our church, and for advance notice to be given ---- to the church itself. There's a security staff, plus CHP is there to direct traffic, and they have a protocol in place for ushering in famous people discreetly so they are able to worship with privacy and peace, and not generate chaos for everyone else there for church. But staff had not been notified about Kanye and Kim coming for that service. They found out due to the paparazzi.

When photos were released people were critical of the paparazzi, viewing it as intrusive that they had followed the family to church, but the opposite was the case. They did not follow the family, they were directed as to where the family would be, and even where they'd park. I felt like they used one of the most sacred worship services of the year for us as a photo op for them.

Similarly, in Kanye's new album I feel like he's hawking faith in it. That it is exploitative, a commodification of the splendor and resonance of spiritual music. It has some of the beauty of it clashing jarringly with the narcissism of Kanye's lyrics. The songs on it are strikingly different, much more shallow, self-absorbed, and kitschy, from the ones about Jesus I listened to when I was tiny. My kindergarten Sunday school class danced along to Jesus Walks. We loved it, we bopped around to it all the time, even if we didn't understand many of the lyrics then; the refrain of it resonated with us. Kanye circa the mid-2000s was a reasonable role model, but I wouldn't play his current music to my little sisters. Listening to that album brought me sadness instead of fortifying my faith in any way. Even if I didn't know about Kanye's public meltdowns I would suspect bipolar was a factor in his newest album due to the self-grandiosity of it. I feel it was an album made for followers of Kanye more than one made for followers of Christ. It's also a lyrical disaster. It's not much of an album or very Christian, despite being marketed as a Christian album.
Well, I have not heard the album so I cannot comment on his music. I don't use any contemporary music as part of my worship life since they might have some heterodox beliefs.

Regarding West's narcissism, that's something he should talk with his pastor. Nevertheless, he is new to the faith and that's something one works with during one's life.
 
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dzheremi

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I don't have any opinion on Kanye or Kim as Christians. That's not my place to say anything about. I don't know anything about them as celebrities, either. I couldn't tell you a single Kanye song, or anything about the Kardashians. I know they exist, but I've never seen their show, and I don't do Instagram or whatever. (I'm sure I've heard a Kanye song before, but I wouldn't know anything about it.)

I don't think that it will raise the profile of the Church, either. I assume most people know that Kim Kardashian is an ethnic Armenian, so when they hear she got baptized in the Armenian Apostolic Church or had her daughter baptized in it, they probably think "Oh, I guess that fits." It's like finding out that famous Russian is Russian Orthodox, or a famous Greek is Greek Orthodox. It would seem more noteworthy if they weren't, given the close connection between the people/nation and the Church for certain ethnic groups.

Most people who are not involved in Orthodoxy or at least in internet forums like this one don't know what any of this stuff is, or care to know. I don't think a celebrity belonging to the national Church of her people is anything that most people notice or care about.
 
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Not David

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I don't have any opinion on Kanye or Kim as Christians. That's not my place to say anything about. I don't know anything about them as celebrities, either. I couldn't tell you a single Kanye song, or anything about the Kardashians. I know they exist, but I've never seen their show, and I don't do Instagram or whatever. (I'm sure I've heard a Kanye song before, but I wouldn't know anything about it.)

I don't think that it will raise the profile of the Church, either. I assume most people know that Kim Kardashian is an ethnic Armenian, so when they hear she got baptized in the Armenian Apostolic Church or had her daughter baptized in it, they probably think "Oh, I guess that fits." It's like finding out that famous Russian is Russian Orthodox, or a famous Greek is Greek Orthodox. It would seem more noteworthy if they weren't, given the close connection between the people/nation and the Church for certain ethnic groups.

Most people who are not involved in Orthodoxy or at least in internet forums like this one don't know what any of this stuff is, or care to know. I don't think a celebrity belonging to the national Church of her people is anything that most people notice or care about.
Agree. It would be like Tom Hanks and Greek Orthodoxy, right?
 
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~Anastasia~

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I have to agree completely with @dzheremi's post.

But if a celebrity showed up for our Pascha service along with hoardes of cameras, I wouldn't be happy about that. It's a major holy day of the Church, the celebration of the Resurrection, and I wouldn't want anything so base detracting from that. Of course celebrities ought to have the right to worship. But if it truly is important to them, they should be at a Church regularly and so it wouldn't seem such an event for the media.
 
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Barney2.0

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Does the OO proselytize or the EO for that matter? I’ve never encountered either.

~Bella
That depends, I believe the Coptic Church does encourage the spreading of the faith to Muslim Egyptians, however this is never said out loud or done openly due to the delicate nature of Egypt’s Copts and how Islamists can easily snap. But the Coptic chruch doesn’t actually have actual mass missionary movements going on in Egypt, that’s Muslim conspiracy theories for you, not to mention the Coptic Orthodox Church doesn't even have the power to do that. Father Zakaria Botros was once aided by the Church until his robust and Rambo styled criticisms of Islam and his preaching forced him to leave Egypt. I believe Father Zambia Botros retired many years ago from the priesthood so it only technically remains as a title to him, although he still preaches to Muslims in Egypt and outside of it aswell as to the whole Middle East, although nowadays he’s taken on a more Protestant evangelical way of preaching instead of a traditional Orthodox way, not to mention he’s really become associated with Protestant Arabs, which a move I didn’t quite like.
 
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JackRT

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not to mention he’s really become associated with Protestant Arabs, which a move I didn’t quite like.

Protestant Arabs? Is there really such a thing? This brings to mind the question as to why evangelical Christians try to evangelize in regions where there are already long established Christian churches.
 
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Barney2.0

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Protestant Arabs? Is there really such a thing? This brings to mind the question as to why evangelical Christians try to evangelize in regions where there are already long established Christian churches.
Many, they’re the main groups evangelizing Muslims, Rachid is a Moroccan Protestant convert, Maher Samuel is another famous evangelical Egyptian preacher, you have Ashraf Azmi another Protestant scholar whose on Christian channel of Al Hayat, you have Yusuf Riyad whose also an Egyptian Protestant Biblical scholar. Most of the Christian Arabic channels on YouTube that focus on Islam are dominated by Protestants, infact the so far I think only one person on Al Hayat is even a Coptic Orthodox and that’s Waheed who runs one of the shows also addressed to Muslims which is why I mainly watch his show. Although Protestantism was brought here by Europeans and is commonly associated in the Middle East with colonialism, pretty much all the evangelizing is done by Protestant Arabs themselves to Muslims, as the Europeans have already established Churches among Arabs when they held colonial rule over most of the Middle East. The most well known Bible translation into Arabic which is the Van Dyke version used by both Catholics and Orthodox (the Coptic Church even officially sanctioned it) was and is a Protestant translation.
 
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~Anastasia~

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This brings to mind the question as to why evangelical Christians try to evangelize in regions where there are already long established Christian churches.

According to what little I've read and heard, it's because they don't recognize them as Christian, or consider them somehow deficient.

I had an acquaintance once who was very invested in "evangelizing" Slavic countries.
 
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Not David

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According to what little I've read and heard, it's because they don't recognize them as Christian, or consider them somehow deficient.

I had an acquaintance once who was very invested in "evangelizing" Slavic countries.
Christians in the Middle East are only Christians when it serves one's goal.

Here is a meme which relates to the situation.
6263bd9.jpg
 
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~Anastasia~

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Christians in the Middle East are only Christians when it serves one's goal.

Here is a meme which relates to the situation.
View attachment 265969
Yes ... I've seen them referred to as Christians when it involved persecution ... and not Christian when "evangelizing".

True enough. Sadly.
 
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