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Featured What do you think are some reasons certain Christians refuse to read certain parts of the Bible?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Bible Highlighter, Oct 16, 2019.

  1. Emmylouwho

    Emmylouwho Well-Known Member

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    God decided Lot was a righteous man BEFORE Lot offered to let the townspeople rape his virgin daughters.
     
  2. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Here is part of a quote from an article that might help you to see where I am coming from:

    First, one must keep in mind that though a Bible writer may have recorded specific sins and foolish acts of an individual does not mean that the person could not also have been righteous. Christ was the only perfect man ever to live (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:22). Though Noah, Abraham, Moses, etc. were counted faithful (Hebrews 11:7-29), they occasionally disobeyed God’s will (cf. Numbers 20:1-12), and acted foolishly or cowardly (cf. Genesis 9:21; 12:12-20; 20:1-18). God never blessed their disobedience, only their faithfulness.

    Even the apostle Peter, who also served as an elder in the Lord’s church (1 Peter 5:1), was guilty at one time or another of having a lack of faith (Matthew 14:31), denying that he knew the Lord (Matthew 26:69-75), and hypocritically withdrawing himself from Gentiles (Galatians 2:11-14).

    Second, Peter’s statements about Lot’s righteousness must be considered in their proper context. Similar to how Noah was an island of righteousness surrounded by a sea of iniquity (2 Peter 2:5), Lot was surrounded by extremely “wicked,” “filthy,” “lawless” citizens of Sodom (2 Peter 2:7-8). Although Lot was far from perfect, he was not a wicked, lawless unrighteous citizen of Sodom; he was righteous. Lot separated himself from the unlawfulness of the inhabitants of Sodom and was even tormented “day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds” (2 Peter 2:8).

    Though Lot’s offering of his daughters to the sodomites is inexcusable (as it seems were Abraham’s actions in Egypt and Gerar when he allowed his wife to be taken by kings in order to preserve his life; see Genesis 12:10-20; 20:1-18), Genesis 19 clearly indicates the distinction between the righteousness of Lot and the wickedness of the inhabitants of Sodom. The sodomites even hinted at such when they declared that Lot “keeps acting as a judge” (Genesis 19:9). This was the distinction Peter made—not that Lot was perfect, but that he remained uncontaminated by the intense iniquity prevalent throughout Sodom. Like Christians today who strive to walk in the light, though they are imperfect (1 John 1:5-10), Lot was a righteous man, who also made some memorable mistakes.​

    Author:
    by Eric Lyons, M.Min.
    Article source:
    “Righteous Lot”?
    Website:
    ApologeticsPress.org
     
  3. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    It sounds like you are saying that a person can do sin and still be called righteous while they do sin by GOD. If this is the case, what do you make of George Sodini? He believed he could kill a bunch of people and then take his own life and be saved by believing in Jesus alone for his salvation. He thought every sin was paid for (Including his future sin). Do you believe George Sodini was saved or that is possible that he could have been saved? If you do, I find that to be totally immoral and unbiblical.

    Here is a quote from George Sodini:
    (Sodini blog diary: August 3, 2009 day before the serial murder):

    I took off today, Monday, and tomorrow to practice my routine and make sure it is well polished. I need to work out every detail, there is only one shot. Also I need to be completely immersed into something before I can be successful. I haven't had a drink since Friday at about 2:30. Total effort needed. Tomorrow is the big day. Unfortunately I talked to my neighbor today, who is very positive and upbeat. I need to remain focused and absorbed COMPLETELY. Last time I tried this, in January, I chickened out. Lets see how this new approach works. Maybe soon, I will see God and Jesus. At least that is what I was told. Eternal life does NOT depend on works. If it did, we will all be in hell. Christ paid for EVERY sin, so how can I or you be judged BY GOD for a sin when the penalty was ALREADY paid. People judge but that does not matter. I was reading the Bible and The Integrity of God beginning yesterday, because soon I will see them.

    Quote:
    George Sodini.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  4. Emmylouwho

    Emmylouwho Well-Known Member

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    I have seen no evidence that either Lot or George Sodini was a righteous man. Lot offered his daughters to rapists, and then impregnated his daughters himself. George Sodini was a mass murderer.
     
  5. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    You got your facts wrong. Unless Peter was lying (Which he wasn't) he said that Lot was righteous because he was vexed by the sinful or wicked deeds done around him. How can a person be vexed by sinful or wicked deeds if they are also in a cesspool of sin? They would have no room to judge.

    Also, although Lot was wrong to get drunk, he did not impregnate his daughters while he was sober or of a good mind. Alcohol can lead to people having sex with people that they are not even aware of. It destroys good judgment and memory. So Lots sin was drunkenness of which led to another kind of sin that was beyond his normal control while he was sober. For nothing like that ever happened before. The daughters were worried that they would not have a child because their men were not going to go with them. So they forced the situation.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  6. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    So do you believe Lot was saved?
    Do you believe it is possible that George Sodini could have been saved?
    Do you believe it is possible that GOD can declare a person righteous even while they sin?
    If so, what kind of sins?
    Have you ever read Galatians 5:19-21 lately?
     
  7. Emmylouwho

    Emmylouwho Well-Known Member

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    I think offering your daughters to rapists and then having sex with them is not righteous. So he was “vexed” by the very people he OFFERED HIS DAUGHTERS TO. And then incestously fornicated with them HIMSELF. Not impressed with Lot.
     
  8. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    I think the main, and maybe most important thing about LOT that we KNOW FOR CERTAIN, is that Yahuweh called him Righteous.
     
  9. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    No, but it is true that the righteous faithful Ekklesia are constantly (daily) 'vexed'/ filled with anger (righteous indignation) / at the sin all around us everywhere, just as Lot was.

    Study Bible
    Deliverance from False Prophets
    6 if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction, reducing them to ashes as an example of what is coming on the ungodly; 7 and if He rescued Lot, a righteous man distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless 8(for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)—…
    Berean Study Bible · Download

    Jude 1:4
    For certain men have crept in among you unnoticed--ungodly ones who were designated long ago for condemnation. They turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality, and they deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

    1 Corinthians 10:13
    There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

    Genesis 19:7,8
    And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly…

    Psalm 120:5
    Woe is me, that I sojourn in Mesech, that I dwell in the tents of Kedar!
     
  10. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Again, Lot was not aware of what his daughters were doing. The Scripture says, I quote:

    “And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.” (Genesis 19:35).
    ‭‭
    As for his offering his daughters:
    He made a mistake. Men of God can stumble. It was not a way of life for him to have that kind of behavior. When Peter says that he was righteous, it is talking about his general behavior and not rare moments that he would stumble.
     
  11. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    I'm not sure it was so much about any behavior, as about who he trusted and obeyed/ followed/ relied on.
     
  12. Emmylouwho

    Emmylouwho Well-Known Member

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    A “mistake” is offering yourself to a rapist. Offering your daughters to a rapist is a sin.
     
  13. Emmylouwho

    Emmylouwho Well-Known Member

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    Not only is it a sin, it is a crime against your children and human decency.
     
  14. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    That is the common worldly assessment, it seems.
     
  15. Emmylouwho

    Emmylouwho Well-Known Member

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    What is “fruit”? Is it your behavior, or your beliefs?
     
  16. Emmylouwho

    Emmylouwho Well-Known Member

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    What is your assessment of offering your daughter to a rapist?
     
  17. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Non sequitur.


    The point is, what does God say about LOT ? (not what do men say)
     
  18. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    The best definition I've seen is "teachings".

    Whenever other things are used to define it, things usually go or have gone sideways ..... not always , but usually (on the internet)....
     
  19. Emmylouwho

    Emmylouwho Well-Known Member

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    Pardon moi, mon non sequitur.

    But this is an English speaking site, so, let’s get back to the question you weren’t able wiggle out of.

    “What is your assessment of offering your daughter to a rapist?” -emmylouwho to yeshuaslavejeff just a few minutes

    The point is, what does God say about LOT ? (not what do men say)[/QUOTE]

    Non
    “What is your assessment of offering your daughter to a rapist?” -emmylouwho to yeshuaslavejeff just a few minutes

    The point is, what does God say about LOT ? (not what do men say)[/QUOTE]

    Non
     
  20. Emmylouwho

    Emmylouwho Well-Known Member

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    So if you are judged by your “fruit”, you are being judged by your “teachings”?
     
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