What do you think about the sacraments?

[Not David]

When I hear the word I think of the Last Supper and baptism.

But that’s why I asked, because I know there are a lot of views of what that word means to people.

Other things considered "sacraments" are: marriage, confirmation/chrismation, holy orders, confession and holy unction.

 

[Silverback]

Two, although it doesn't offend me terribly if people sometimes use the word to refer to other ceremonies that have been solemnized by the church and which are not in the same category as the "Sacraments of the Gospel."

Two for Lutherans as well

 

[Silverback]

Define sacraments.

Instituted by Christ, a means of grace, associated with an external element...specifically:

Baptism...water

Communion...bread

Luther at times slipped in confession/absolution as a sacrament, but it has no associated external element, and does not qualify.

Lutherans, do not argue about the # of sacraments other than baptism and communion. It falls within the "neither forbidden or commanded" category.

However, one must be careful, so as not to throw a stumbling block in front of someone by demanding things not expounded on in scripture.

My personnel view of the sacraments is that Christ instituted them, and he said to do them, so I was baptized, and I take communion, simple as far as I'm concerned.

The sacraments can be very divisive if not properly taught, and administered, which is why some churches rarely celebrate communion...IMHO...anyway.

 

[renniks]

Do you like them, do you oppose them? Share your opinion.

What does that even mean? Oppose them? No, but they also don't save anyone.

 

[Paidiske]

What does that even mean? Oppose them?

Some denominations do not have any sacramental practice at all.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Some denominations do not have any sacramental practice at all.

That is quite true. The Society of Friends (aka Quakers), for example, primarily because it was illegal for any church other than the Church of England to have sacraments. That also included the RCC, although they went underground and had secret masses, which greatly annoyed the CoE.

 

[Dave L]

Do you like them, do you oppose them? Share your opinion.

Some turn the Church and sacraments into a "salvation vending machine" for a self-salvation scheme that is entirely foreign to salvation by grace as taught in the bible.

To the more biblically minded, they are symbols of grace used for memorials of grace.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

We do; but we do not view them as sacraments. We do many good and edifying, even graced, things which do not qualify as sacraments.

Hi Paidiske, along with baptism and the Eucharist, most Lutherans also consider Confession and Absolution a sacrament; an arguement can also be made for Holy Orders, as it is through the Clergy that the sacraments are administered, and thus, esential in the delivery of grace. The Small Catechism says two. It is more of a matter of definition. Two, three, or four, the rest can be considered "sacramental acts". Most Lutheran theologians would define a sacrament as 1, being instituted by Jesus Christ; 2, contains physical elements (water, bread, wine, laying on of hands); 3, being a means of grace whereby sins are directly forgiven by God throgh their administration.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Some turn the Church and sacraments into a "salvation vending machine" for a self-salvation scheme that is entirely foreign to salvation by grace as taught in the bible.

To the more biblically minded, they are symbols of grace used for memorials of grace.

They would be wrong.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Instituted by Christ, a means of grace, associated with an external element...specifically:

Baptism...water

Communion...bread

Luther at times slipped in confession/absolution as a sacrament, but it has no associated external element, and does not qualify.

Lutherans, do not argue about the # of sacraments other than baptism and communion. It falls within the "neither forbidden or commanded" category.

However, one must be careful, so as not to throw a stumbling block in front of someone by demanding things not expounded on in scripture.

My personnel view of the sacraments is that Christ instituted them, and he said to do them, so I was baptized, and I take communion, simple as far as I'm concerned.

The sacraments can be very divisive if not properly taught, and administered, which is why some churches rarely celebrate communion...IMHO...anyway.

Confession is listed as a sacrament in the Augsburg Confession. External element is the laying on of hands in private confession. This part is often absent in the Catholic Church.

 

[Dave L]

Hi Paidiske, along with baptism and the Eucharist, most Lutherans also consider Confession and Absolution a sacrament; an arguement can also be made for Holy Orders, as it is through the Clergy that the sacraments are administered, and thus, esential in the delivery of grace. The Small Catechism says two. It is more of a matter of definition. Two, three, or four, the rest can be considered "sacramental acts". Most Lutheran theologians would define a sacrament as 1, being instituted by Jesus Christ; 2, contains physical elements (water, bread, wine, laying on of hands); 3, being a means of grace whereby sins are directly forgiven by God throgh their administration.

You need to be saved by grace before taking the sacraments. Many are sick and die not being worthy of them.

“For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.” 1 Corinthians 11:23–29 (KJV 1900)

 

[HatGuy]

Do you like them, do you oppose them? Share your opinion.

Recently "converted" to the Lutheran position on sacraments, as a non-sacramental before (non denominational)

I think most non denoms have adopted the Zwinglian view of memorialism, or some sort-of watered down Calvinist view.

At any rate, I like them and no longer oppose them. In fact, I think they're quite key for sanctification now.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Recently "converted" to the Lutheran position on sacraments, as a non-sacramental before (non denominational)

I think most non denoms have adopted the Zwinglian view of memorialism, or some sort-of watered down Calvinist view.

At any rate, I like them and no longer oppose them. In fact, I think they're quite key for sanctification now.

You are hardly alone. However, I remain a firm and committed Zwinglian.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Do you like them, do you oppose them? Share your opinion.

In Lutheranism we only recognize three Sacraments, this is in part because of how we define what a Sacrament is. In order for something to be a Sacrament:

1) It is God's word connected to something material, so for example the water of Baptism, the bread and wine of the Eucharist, or the spoken words of Absolution.

2) It must have been instituted by Jesus Christ for the whole Church.

EDIT: I had a much lengthier, but messier post. I've decided to shorten it considerably.

Under this criteria the Lutheran Confessions identify only two or three Sacraments: Baptism, the Eucharist, and Confession/Absolution.

Word and Sacrament are God's Means of Grace--how God has chosen to be active and present in the Church. God comes down to us through Word and Sacrament, meeting us, and bringing to us every good which He has promised in all these things.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

.

 

[Not David]

What does that even mean? Oppose them? No, but they also don't save anyone.

Well, baptism is a sacrament and the Bible says that Baptism saves you

 

[Not David]

Some turn the Church and sacraments into a "salvation vending machine" for a self-salvation scheme that is entirely foreign to salvation by grace as taught in the bible.

To the more biblically minded, they are symbols of grace used for memorials of grace.

Disagree, they have real grace given by God to us

 

[renniks]

Well, baptism is a sacrament and the Bible says that Baptism saves you

No, it says the pledge of a clear conscious saves you, not the water.

 

[Not David]

No, it says the pledge of a clear conscious saves you, not the water.

It's both.

 

[Dave L]

Disagree, they have real grace given by God to us

Where does it even begin to suggest that? Jesus said, "This do in memory of me".