What do you think about prayers?

[awitch]

...Until a few months ago I was an Independent Baptist. I was for about two and a half years. There was no hope for my dead relatives and I struggled with that every single day.

What happened to those relatives after they died?

 

[Dansiph]

What happened to those relatives after they died?

I thought that they went to hell.

You're not considering anything I'm telling you. At least not properly. I'm not going to continue anymore because although I hope it isn't... It just seems like a waste of time and counterproductive. It's between you and God.

 

[awitch]

It culminated, of course, with Jesus' resurrection from the grave, which WAS empirically substantiated by those who were there -- not by some smirkers 2000 years later demanding to be able to look back in time via evidence scattered about here and there.

That's anecdotal at best.
If I say "Bob found empirical evidence for unicorns on Mars", that doesn't mean there are unicorns on Mars. We would need access to that empirical evidence and analyze it before we could make that determination.

If everyone thought like you do (i.e., academically), Jesus would have to come back generation after generation after generation to satisfy their empirical curiosity.

That shouldn't be too difficult for an omnipotent god and I'm sure an omniscient god would know a better way.
But it wouldn't be necessary at all in an opt-out system.

When anyone puts Jesus' down, they are putting down a whole generation of people who were actually there and witnessed things no classroom on earth can recreate.

Unless those people didn't exist either because it's a myth.

And any child should be able to look a scientist right in his eyes and tell him he's wrong.

I don't think I've met anyone who was made to feel so insecure about their beliefs because of science.

 

[awitch]

I thought that they went to hell.You're not considering anything I'm telling you. At least not properly. I'm not going to continue anymore because although I hope it isn't... It just seems like a waste of time and counterproductive.

'Counterproductive' is an interesting choice of words, but we don't need to pursue the topic if you feel you have nothing to gain.

It's between you and God.

I'm not worried.

 

[AV1611VET]

That shouldn't be too difficult for an omnipotent god and I'm sure an omniscient god would know a better way.

I somehow don't think it would matter to those who have made up their minds.

Luke 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[awitch]

I somehow don't think it would matter to those who have made up their minds.

That's okay, they would have been given undeniable, full disclosure.
When the fate of every eternal soul is on the line, it's the least a benevolent deity could do.

 

[AV1611VET]

That's okay, they would have been given undeniable, full disclosure.
When the fate of every eternal soul is on the line, it's the least a benevolent deity could do.

The thing is, those who single Him out for ridicule, blasphemy, scientific scrutiny, and the like, expect Him to wink at all that come the Judgement Day and give them a free pass into Heaven.

The term for that is: universal reconciliation.

A doctrine that we don't subscribe to.

 

[awitch]

The thing is, those who single Him out for ridicule, blasphemy, scientific scrutiny, and the like, expect Him to wink at all that come the Judgement Day and give them a free pass into Heaven.

The term for that is: universal reconciliation.

A doctrine that we don't subscribe to.

Not me. I don't single him out and as I said before, I would decline any invitation to heaven if it meant having to spend eternity hanging out with fundamentalist Christians.

 

[AV1611VET]

Not me.

Give yourself time ... you will.

I don't single him out and as I said before, I would decline any invitation to heaven if it meant having to spend eternity hanging out with fundamentalist Christians.

But when it's all over, and the invitations stop, your universal reconciliation is suddenly going to be a doctrine you'll wish was real.

 

[awitch]

Give yourself time ... you will.But when it's all over, and the invitations stop, your universal reconciliation is suddenly going to be a doctrine you'll wish was real.

How disappointed would you be if it was real?

 

[Zoness]

From your link:I thought Baal was their national god, until God [JEHOVAH] showed up and twisted him into a pretzel, along with 450 of his prophets?

Ba'al (which is actually more than one god, since its thought to be a title, thinking of Ba'al Haddad, Ba'al Peor, Ba'al Hammon) was a popular set of divinities in Canaanite polytheism, including Hebrew polytheism but seems to have slowly been supplanted over the centuries. Yahweh's name was slowly associated with the Christian god as the Hebrews went from polytheism to henotheism to monotheism.

From the article:
During the Second Temple period, speaking the name of Yahweh in public became regarded as taboo.[13] Jews began to substitute the divine name with the word adonai (אֲדֹנָי‬), meaning "Lord", and after the Temple was destroyed in 70 CE the original pronunciation was forgotten.

From this point onward we can comfortably say Yahweh is a name for the primary god of the OT but its also just a guess from the tetragrammaton YHVH. This second temple taboo is probably why Jews don't say or right the name either.

 

[AV1611VET]

How disappointed would you be if it was real?

Very.

 

[AV1611VET]

Ba'al (which is actually more than one god, since its thought to be a title, thinking of Ba'al Haddad, Ba'al Peor, Ba'al Hammon) was a popular set of divinities in Canaanite polytheism, including Hebrew polytheism ...

I'd say that's an understatement.

Jeremiah 11:13 For according to the number of thy cities were thy gods, O Judah; and according to the number of the streets of Jerusalem have ye set up altars to that shameful thing, even altars to burn incense unto Baal.

JEHOVAH came first, long before Baal did.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Translation: JEHOVAH did it.

 

[awitch]

Very.

Why is that?

 

[Zoness]

I'd say that's an understatement.

Jeremiah 11:13 For according to the number of thy cities were thy gods, O Judah; and according to the number of the streets of Jerusalem have ye set up altars to that shameful thing, even altars to burn incense unto Baal.

JEHOVAH came first, long before Baal did.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Translation: JEHOVAH did it.

I would be pretty surprised if the writers didn't propagandize their own gods, I mean that is the whole point of the text lol

 

[AV1611VET]

Why is that?

Do you want to spend all eternity with Adolf Hitler in his unrepentant state? Stalin? Darwin?* Shallcrass? Pol Pot? Lucifer? Klebold & Harris?

* Okay, I believe Darwin made a deathbed confession, but that's beside the point.

 

[AV1611VET]

I would be pretty surprised if the writers didn't propagandize their own gods, I mean that is the whole point of the text lol

I have no idea what you just said.

What writers?

"Jeremiah" is singular.

 

[awitch]

Do you want to spend all eternity with Adolf Hitler in his unrepentant state? Stalin? Darwin?* Shallcrass? Pol Pot? Lucifer? Klebold & Harris?

* Okay, I believe Darwin made a deathbed confession, but that's beside the point.

This doesn't answer my question why you would disappointed to find out everyone gets saved.

Darwin's deathbed confession was a lie, and I'd love to hang out with him. We could discuss finches.

I'm not really worried about Lucifer or his minions since all they can do is move furniture around when you're not looking and maybe open and close doors when you're trying to sleep.

Hitler was Christian, but even if he is in hell, so are the millions of Jews he had slaughtered.
In fact, there are billions of other souls in hell who are just normal, every day people who didn't happen
to be Christian.

But if you like to play that game, I can list self-proclaimed Christian terrorists who would be in heaven because they believed.

 

[Richard Mulcahy]

It seems to me that sometimes God wants us to ask for specific things through prayer. Besides what good would it be for me to pray something non-specific like the Lord's Prayer or the Rosary or whatever when I have a specific concern on my mind? God surely knows that I am concerned about some loved-one's health (for example), so why not be honest about that in prayer? Why not admit that I would like God to supernaturally help that loved-one if possible? On the other hand, if the supernatural help is actually contingent upon my prayer then that would be a scary thought. I often do not care enough to pray about most things. Should others not receive help simply because I neglect to pray for them? And if the help happens regardless then what is the purpose of my prayer?

Hi again,

Here's a great video on the power of the Lord's Prayer.

It seems to me that sometimes God wants us to ask for specific things through prayer. Besides what good would it be for me to pray something non-specific like the Lord's Prayer or the Rosary or whatever when I have a specific concern on my mind? God surely knows that I am concerned about some loved-one's health (for example), so why not be honest about that in prayer? Why not admit that I would like God to supernaturally help that loved-one if possible? On the other hand, if the supernatural help is actually contingent upon my prayer then that would be a scary thought. I often do not care enough to pray about most things. Should others not receive help simply because I neglect to pray for them? And if the help happens regardless then what is the purpose of my prayer?

Hi again cloudyday2,

Just found this great video on the power of the Lord's Prayer.

 

[Rachel20]

Depends on who you ask, I suppose.

Those from abusive families? Yes. Sadly so. I've often wondered how they would relate to God as "father"