How to Deal With Horniness as a Christian? What to Do?

[Sar117]

if theres no ring, no certificate and you didnt say your i dos, in front of a minister a man of God, before God then you are not married. Even in the bible it talks about unions before God with witnesses. If u open up the door to say if your having sex than your married to that person than u open up the Door to the gays to say the same. And your offering an exuse for kids to get it on. The bible also says to obey the laws of the land. If who you sleep with makes u married to them then some people out there have like 100 wives and/or husbands. Thats ridiculous.

 

[Ringu]

I don't recall Jesus sying "What the State has joined together, let no man put asunder."

Then what's the God's part? What's the church's part? I mean, as soon as you got horny and had sex with a girl you don't even know, you are married to her? This is ridiculous.

 

[Ringu]

This isn't true as in the case of the Samaritan woman. .... That's like saying those who are victims of rape are married to the rapist. Sound fair to you? ... Again, biblically speaking, Jesus attended a traditional wedding in the culture which supports the notion that Jesus saw it as an acceptable marriage.

To simply ignore the "state" as you call it, is setting up some rebellious Christian anarchy, destroying your testimony, and setting yourself up for marital failure.

We cannot pick and choose what to obey regarding Scriptural commands, except common sense speaking, if the authority commands that you violate Scripture.

Great points, man! Respect.

 

[Spazmmeetsboberry]

Honestly im still slightly confused. I may be a little biblically ignorant but im not a non believer. maybe i just have different beliefs... for one i appreciate the bible and enjoy the stories... but i do not necessarily take them as exact accounts. i mean the writers of the bible took matters into their own hands, just like any situation. all people have their own interpretaions of things going on in the world. these writers did too. its hard to say that everything in there actually happened or was said, as written because anything could have been slightly biased to the writer. ugh i cant seem to get what im trying to say out. hmmm...

i guess what im trying to say is i dont believe sex is wrong if you are not married. i dont see how it could be. if the bible says its wrong, well thats nice, maybe the writer felt it was wrong and since he had the power to write down whats going on in the world, he chose to lable sex as wrong.

i hope that made some sense... ill check back to see if anyone responded...

 

[Ringu]

Honestly im still slightly confused. I may be a little biblically ignorant but im not a non believer. maybe i just have different beliefs... for one i appreciate the bible and enjoy the stories... but i do not necessarily take them as exact accounts. i mean the writers of the bible took matters into their own hands, just like any situation. all people have their own interpretaions of things going on in the world. these writers did too. its hard to say that everything in there actually happened or was said, as written because anything could have been slightly biased to the writer. ugh i cant seem to get what im trying to say out. hmmm...

i guess what im trying to say is i dont believe sex is wrong if you are not married. i dont see how it could be. if the bible says its wrong, well thats nice, maybe the writer felt it was wrong and since he had the power to write down whats going on in the world, he chose to lable sex as wrong.

i hope that made some sense... ill check back to see if anyone responded...

Hi Spazmmeetsboberry,
Thanks for being honest. You have a right to believe what you believe, but I think you believe that because you don't think that there is God who has a certain design for people and who has a certain will that is good for you. If you don't believe that then the only thing you can believe is your own good, the way you see it. Probably you reason like this "Feels good, then it's good". When you think so, and specifically about the sex issue, you underestimate the meaning of sex as well as the meaning of marriage. But I don't want to guess, I'd rather know why you think that sex before marriage is good. I mean, I believe sex is good, I believe in the Bible too and what it says is true. But I think there are reasons outside the Bible that make me believe that premarital sex isn't the best. And I will tell about it later, after I hear what you have to say.
So please tell us more about why you think so.

 

[Spazmmeetsboberry]

hEY ringu, thanks for understanding hehe! um hmmm i dunno, first of all let me just say that sometimes i have a hard time trying to get out what i have to say but ill try my best!

Hi Spazmmeetsboberry,
Thanks for being honest. You have a right to believe what you believe, but I think you believe that because you don't think that there is God who has a certain design for people and who has a certain will that is good for you. If you don't believe that then the only thing you can believe is your own good, the way you see it. Probably you reason like this "Feels good, then it's good". When you think so, and specifically about the sex issue, you underestimate the meaning of sex as well as the meaning of marriage. But I don't want to guess, I'd rather know why you think that sex before marriage is good. I mean, I believe sex is good, I believe in the Bible too and what it says is true. But I think there are reasons outside the Bible that make me believe that premarital sex isn't the best. And I will tell about it later, after I hear what you have to say.
So please tell us more about why you think so.Today 09:42 AMuhh i hope by doing that it doesnt mess p my text... ok

okokok to start: As for believing that God has a design for all of us. I guess if i really think about it right now i believe that he has a plan for the mass, but not necessarily for each individual. i have no reason to back this up so feel free to counter what i say... im really thinking aloud right now. i understand that perhaps he does have a certain will that is good for us, but for some reason i like to think that we're here to figure things out on our own... i believe he does love us... very much so... but i feel like this is our time and that he doesnt have an exact plan for us. i may end up thinking differently later... this is just how i feel right now....

oh also just to let you know.... im really just trying to learn my faith right now so i have no definate answers, its been a while since ive even thought about my religion and my own beliefs...

ok anyway... as for my feelings about sex before marriage. I do not feel its wrong if you truely love the person. Sex is a uniting of two people into one connecting each on a level in which only they experience. Im not saying sex is good because it feels good, in some cases it doesnt... im saying its good because i feel like it unites two people... its something only they share, like a secret between them and onlu them (and God of course). I guess one could argue and say... yes this is true for MARRIAGE. but what about those who arent yet married, or are not ready for marriage because they have other life goals at the moment, yet still truely love the person? see thats when i think sex is ok. if God knows that the two absolutely love each other, then i feel like it isnt wrong.

i also, however, believe there are situations in which premarital sex isnt right... prostitution for one or sex before maturity (underage).

i guess everything i say is opinion... well obviously it is... i dont know if any of it makes sense. im really interested in your views too, im very open and would really like to get ideas about everything (hehe) so i can really solidify any of my own views.

 

[SoldierofChrist]

Honestly im still slightly confused. I may be a little biblically ignorant but im not a non believer. maybe i just have different beliefs... for one i appreciate the bible and enjoy the stories... but i do not necessarily take them as exact accounts. i mean the writers of the bible took matters into their own hands, just like any situation. all people have their own interpretaions of things going on in the world. these writers did too. its hard to say that everything in there actually happened or was said, as written because anything could have been slightly biased to the writer. ugh i cant seem to get what im trying to say out. hmmm...

Well... to say you are a Christian is basically saying that you are a follower of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ made some pretty radical claims... He claimed to be God, after all. If you think the Bible is made up of stories, then that is basically saying that you don't think it is accurate, therefore Jesus isn't who He said He was, right? Is that an accurate representation of what you believe? God has a plan for each and every individual because He is sovereign. I'm not so sure what you stated would be called Christianity... seems more like agnosticism, which is that you believe there is a God, only He isn't personal. Sounds right to me that that is what you are saying, based on your idea that God doesn't have a plan for individual people.

If you read the Scriptures, God deals with ordinary people. Moses wasn't some holy guy God picked... no, Moses was an ordinary man who couldn't even speak properly. God set up the law in the Old Testament and stated that sex before or outside of marriage was sin and even punishable by death. David, the dude who slayed Goliath not only committed adultery, but he also killed the husband of the wife he did it with.

In the New Testament, Jesus, God in the flesh, came to restore the relationship that was lost in the fall of mankind, when Adam disobeyed God and sinned. Christ upped the ante on the law, and instead of committing adultery or fornication as sinful, even so much as thinking lustful thoughts about someone who isn't your spouse is sin. This wasn't to fulfill some selfish pleasure in God, it was to protect us. Knowing how the human body, mind, and emotions work, as well as for His glory, God established those rules. Sex outside of a marital covenant for life is sinful because it goes against God's creation. 1 male, 1 female, for life.

what about those who arent yet married, or are not ready for marriage because they have other life goals at the moment, yet still truely love the person? see thats when i think sex is ok. if God knows that the two absolutely love each other, then i feel like it isnt wrong.

See, in the Bible, love isn't an emotional feeling. Certainly that goes along with true love, but that isn't the foundation or the basis for it. Love, in the relational sense between husband and wife, is a commitment. If you love your boyfriend/girlfiend/fiancee, you will honor him or her and commit to them for life through marriage. If people have other life goals or aren't ready for marriage... well, they need to get their priorities straight. If they are "burning with passion" and have a strong desire for sex with one another, they should get married. If they aren't ready for marriage, they shouldn't be dating at all.

I suppose all of this may sound confusing to you. I can see where you are coming from. I disagree with what you are saying because I believe the Word of God to be accurate and not in error. I see what you are saying about different interpretations in Scripture, etc... but that's the beauty of it. God used different personalities to communicate the same truths. There appear to be contradictions in the Gospels for instance, in different accounts of the same situation. However, a good anaylsis of these passages would reveal that they are merely different angles at the same event, or additional parts that were there but not mentioned by other authors. I'm a Bible College student so I had to study these things for a full semester and it's pretty interesting, but it also revealed that the supposed contradictions aren't contradictions at all.

Anyway, thanks for being open without ridicule or mean-spiritedness. Look forward to hearing from you again.

 

[AngelusSax]

That's like saying those who are victims of rape are married to the rapist. Sound fair to you?

That's actually more like saying those who choose to have sex should be aware of their choice and what it means. Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "Thw two will become one flesh."

Now, show me where it is said, "The two will have a ceremony in front of their friends and family and be applauded by the State."

In the NIV (and I wonder how many cans of worms are opened because of that...), the text "it is good for a man not to marry" has a superscript at the end of it, denoting one to check the footnote. The footnote reads, "Or, 'it is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.'"

 

[SoldierofChrist]

That's actually more like saying those who choose to have sex should be aware of their choice and what it means. Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "Thw two will become one flesh."

I think this is a gross misinterpretation of the text. There is a one-flesh union, but they are not considered married in God's eyes. That's rediculous. I think I demonstrated from Scripture that sexual relations does not a marriage make. Marriage involves a covenant... No covenant? No marriage. It's that simple.

Now, show me where it is said, "The two will have a ceremony in front of their friends and family and be applauded by the State."

Again, I already showed this. It's in Romans 13... Just because something isn't explicitly stated in Scripture does not mean it is implied elsewhere... ie: within the obedience to governing authorities and customs.

In the NIV (and I wonder how many cans of worms are opened because of that...), the text "it is good for a man not to marry" has a superscript at the end of it, denoting one to check the footnote. The footnote reads, "Or, 'it is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.'"

The NIV isn't a bad translation here. Although I don't see how you can come to the conclusion that it means that "touching a woman," or "having sexual relations" automatically means marriage. Considering the situation with the Samaritan woman, and the whole concept of fornication especially in the New Testament. Again, Romans 13 mandates the obedience to governing authorities and even cultural customs as normative for believers. No exceptions here.

 

[Spazmmeetsboberry]

hey soldier of christ... thank you for responding and giving me a new perspective. i cant actually repsond just yet since it will take me a little while to absorb it and sort it all out. its quite a bit to take in for someone whos just starting to figure out her faith!

but i def appreciate the comment and thank you also for being respectful for the things i wrote!

i do claim to be a christian because ive been through confirmation and such, but maybe deep inside my beliefs claim i'm not? or maybe i just need to understand christianity more... we'll see what will come... but thanks again... ill respond again with something once i start figuring things out more.

 

[AngelusSax]

Again, Romans 13 mandates the obedience to governing authorities and even cultural customs as normative for believers. No exceptions here.

So the American Revolution should never have happened, since that was going against the government of the time. Is that right?

I just wanna make sure I understand your argument here.

Can you prove that the State being the instument of marriage is in God's law? Because I've not seen that in God's law. Ever.

 

[SoldierofChrist]

So the American Revolution should never have happened, since that was going against the government of the time. Is that right?

I just wanna make sure I understand your argument here.

Can you prove that the State being the instument of marriage is in God's law? Because I've not seen that in God's law. Ever.

You are reading further into this than need be. We're not talking about the American Revolution, we're talking about marriage. Romans 13 is there, whether you want to believe it or not. It's not up for personal interpretation. All I see in the argument that "we want a private marriage in a commitment before God" is an excuse for fornication. The question shouldn't be "prove to me the Bible says the State is in the 'instrument of marriage' in God's law," especially considering the instrument of marriage is the church, the question should be directed to you. If we're talking about God's Law, as you say, we're speaking of the Old Testament Penteteuch correct? OK. Ball is in your court.

Prove to me from the Penteteuch, aside from Genesis where there is a God-sanctioned "private marriage" aside from witnesses. Again, we're not speaking of mere sex acts, but an actual covenant relationship.

 

[AngelusSax]

All I see in the argument that "we want a private marriage in a commitment before God" is an excuse for fornication.

You can see what you want to see. Doesn't change what's really in my heart, bud.

Prove to me from the Penteteuch, aside from Genesis...

That's like asking someone to prove Jesus' birth, death, and resurrection without using the New Testament.

where there is a God-sanctioned "private marriage" aside from witnesses.

Hey, witnesses can be involved without a State license. That's all I was saying. Since I consider myself married, I'll use te marriage terms. My wife and I made a commitment in front of other people. We just haven't been able to pay for a ceremony yet.

 

[SoldierofChrist]

You can see what you want to see. Doesn't change what's really in my heart, bud.

Very well. Your obedience/disobedience to Scripture is between you and God. You're right, it's about the heart, "bud."

That's like asking someone to prove Jesus' birth, death, and resurrection without using the New Testament.

The first two can be proven easily. You are the one who brought up "God's law." The law is found in the Penteteuch. If you meant something else, you should have stated that.

Hey, witnesses can be involved without a State license. That's all I was saying.

I never said they couldn't. You still don't address the idea of custom conformity found in Romans 13.

 

[Ringu]

Hey, witnesses can be involved without a State license. That's all I was saying. Since I consider myself married, I'll use te marriage terms. My wife and I made a commitment in front of other people. We just haven't been able to pay for a ceremony yet.

Hey.
At one hand I agree with you, at another hand I don't.
I agree with you because Bible does not say that witnesses have to have a state licence or whatever. Or that wedding should be performed by a priest. Bible calls each believer a priest.
I also agree because I know that for most people even a civil ceremony and marriage certificate don't do any good and don't make their family last longer or be happier.
At the other hand, I do disagree, because states, countries, have the procdure, and governments value family and for some (I think good) reason they believe that the union should be made formal and have a legal power. We can't deny wisdom of this. I think it makes sence and is established by wise people and if you want to argue that, you put yourself smarter then that. But I don't think you are smarter. Sorry, don't want to sound arrogant, but I don't think you are smarter then all these men who lead countries and churches.
You also said one thing -- said that you didn't have a formal wedding because you didn't have money to pay for ceremony. You got to be responsible for your family, man, for finances in your family, but you say "I didn't have money for ceremony". So you took the easy path. Wedding withour state or church ceremony and excuses from the Scripture. Cool, huh.

 

[Ringu]

okokok to start: As for believing that God has a design for all of us. I guess if i really think about it right now i believe that he has a plan for the mass, but not necessarily for each individual. i have no reason to back this up so feel free to counter what i say... im really thinking aloud right now. i understand that perhaps he does have a certain will that is good for us, but for some reason i like to think that we're here to figure things out on our own... i believe he does love us... very much so... but i feel like this is our time and that he doesnt have an exact plan for us. i may end up thinking differently later... this is just how i feel right now....

Hey, Spazmmeetsboberry.
Thanks for the post.
If we are talking for God;s plan for peoples lives in general, like for the mass, as you put it, then it is even easier to discuss. Because if God had all these individual plans for each person, the world would be a chaos. Like God would have a plan for you to kill, for me to steal, for someone else to rape. You know what I mean? There would not be a law or design for the society that would rulel over all people, but there would be all these little plans for individuals... and in the end everyone would do what they feel like doing, and there would be no morals, no crime etc.

But as God has a will for the mass, then everyone walks undes the same law as we all walk under the same Sun. Thus, there are certain rules that are true for all people. We call them moral laws. And they are given by God. You don't have to even read Bible to know these moral laws. One example of such laws is not to take away life from a person without a reason. Again, if there was not this universal moral law, and God had all the different laws for each individual, then we'd live in a chaos because I would be under a law "Do not murder" and you'd be under another law, "Do Murder". Marriage and sex are also some of the issues that fall under this "mass" moral law. And thus the law is either "SEX OKAY BEFORE MARRIAGE" or "SEX OKAY ONLY IN MARRIAGE". If we know, which one is true, then it should be true for everyone. So the next important issue is WHICH OF THESE IS TRUE.

ok anyway... as for my feelings about sex before marriage. I do not feel its wrong if you truely love the person. Sex is a uniting of two people into one connecting each on a level in which only they experience. Im not saying sex is good because it feels good, in some cases it doesnt... im saying its good because i feel like it unites two people... its something only they share, like a secret between them and onlu them (and God of course). I guess one could argue and say... yes this is true for MARRIAGE. but what about those who arent yet married, or are not ready for marriage because they have other life goals at the moment, yet still truely love the person? see thats when i think sex is ok. if God knows that the two absolutely love each other, then i feel like it isnt wrong.

So you basically say, that when you feel real love, then it should be right.
Honestly, I have problems with this.
1) How do you know this is real love?
2) How many times in your life can you feel this "real love"?
So first of all, we often confuse passion and lust with real love. You know how it is, "in love" and "out of love", "love sick" etc... True love is not when you have all these overwhelming feelings. This we call infatuation. And believe me, we can experience this very often in life, and each time we think we are in love and it's forever. No, it's not forever, only God's love is forever.
Secondly, if you are trully in love, then you want to spend life with the person who you love. And if you are serious about it, then why don't you marry the person and wait with sex until marriage. Because it would not make much difference if you don't have sex with him until you exchange vows. Because real love is patient.
Also, once you feel this real love and have sex, you don't have assurance you will actually spend your life with your partner, and it can repeat on and one, and this unity you are talking about, and your secrets, will not be unity and won't be kept secret any more. And just look around and see how many people there are hurt by their past relationships, who don't even want no more relationships, who become disappointed with love and sex.
I don't know, maybe I am also sound too muddled, but I hope you can see my points.
Also I am at work and I constantly get distracted.
And yes, when you diagest this, come back and share with me, or with us, about what you think

 

[SoldierofChrist]

Spazmmeetsboberry

Hey.
At one hand I agree with you, at another hand I don't.
I agree with you because Bible does not say that witnesses have to have a state licence or whatever. Or that wedding should be performed by a priest. Bible calls each believer a priest.

True, the Bible calls all believers priests. However, in the Old testament, it was normative for families to gather together where the father would give his daughter to her new husband, there would be a feast, and then the two would consummate the marriage. In the U.S. wedding ceremonies are the custom, however, even for the government to recognize your marriage, you need a certificate. I think Christians should have a ceremony, but either way, if the government doesn't recognize you are married you aren't due to the fact that God has placed our government over you. The Bible says it very clearly, Romans 13: "5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor." You could add, if you need a marriage license, then get a marriage license.

It is not limited just to those things which Paul mentions. I think you understand the concepts with what you said after this.

At the other hand, I do disagree, because states, countries, have the procdure, and governments value family and for some (I think good) reason they believe that the union should be made formal and have a legal power. We can't deny wisdom of this. I think it makes sence and is established by wise people and if you want to argue that, you put yourself smarter then that. But I don't think you are smarter. Sorry, don't want to sound arrogant, but I don't think you are smarter then all these men who lead countries and churches.
You also said one thing -- said that you didn't have a formal wedding because you didn't have money to pay for ceremony. You got to be responsible for your family, man, for finances in your family, but you say "I didn't have money for ceremony". So you took the easy path. Wedding withour state or church ceremony and excuses from the Scripture. Cool, huh.

You're right. Marriage licenses aren't expensive. Also, I know that pastors will do the service for free if you are very tight on money. It may not be extravagant, but who wants that anyway? I'm not having an extravagant wedding. Weddings don't have to be expensive, it's the covenant involved that is worth more than money ever could, yet Scripture provides us with a depiction of what a wedding looks like, so I think we have the obligation to follow that, yet we can do so without expense. Again, it's the covenant made before God and man that has value, not whether the bride has a $500 dress, the groom is in a tuxedo, or they ride out in a stretch Lincoln Navigator.

It seems the only thing that someone wants in having pre-marital sex with someone is sex. Love is a petty excuse. They are caught up in their hormones and desires and because of lack of self-control, instead of doing what Paul exhorts believers to do by getting married (and following the customs and government's oversight) they have sex. God will bless obedience, but disobedience God will not bless. If you are truly following Christ and your passions are strong but you don't think you can handle marriage financially or what have you, then either wait temporarily until that opportunity comes (abstaining from intimacy) or get married and God will bless that, and He will provide for your family.

 

[Ringu]

Just wanna add that we should "Give to God what belongs to God, and give to Ceasar what belongs to Ceasar", this is universal rule. It's sad that they don't teach you that in lutheran church.

 

[Spazmmeetsboberry]

Hey guys thanks for responding!! Ok, so im still not entirely sure where i stand, but im thinking about what you all said. i still STILL want to discuss the love and marriage thing (go together like a horse and carriage hhahahahaha)
-Quote-
So you basically say, that when you feel real love, then it should be right.
Honestly, I have problems with this.
1) How do you know this is real love?
2) How many times in your life can you feel this "real love"?
So first of all, we often confuse passion and lust with real love. You know how it is, "in love" and "out of love", "love sick" etc... True love is not when you have all these overwhelming feelings. This we call infatuation. And believe me, we can experience this very often in life, and each time we think we are in love and it's forever. No, it's not forever, only God's love is forever.
Secondly, if you are trully in love, then you want to spend life with the person who you love. And if you are serious about it, then why don't you marry the person and wait with sex until marriage. Because it would not make much difference if you don't have sex with him until you exchange vows. Because real love is patient.
Also, once you feel this real love and have sex, you don't have assurance you will actually spend your life with your partner, and it can repeat on and one, and this unity you are talking about, and your secrets, will not be unity and won't be kept secret any more. And just look around and see how many people there are hurt by their past relationships, who don't even want no more relationships, who become disappointed with love and sex
-Quote-

for real love... how do i know? well i mean up until this person i have never experienced real love, ive had boyfriends which i liked very much so and loved as people. but once you are hit with love, i think you know. maybe im wrong but that seems to have been my experience. and for how many times you can feel this love? well i think people can love more than one person in their lives... like for instance the one you love dies... perhaps larter down the line in life you find someone else you are compatible with and will love.

when you said the bit about infatuation i got a little confused. i can understand what youre saying about mixing up love and lust, but i think that if you love the person you know that its not for lust, and if you lust for the person then you know its not for love. i feel like if i know the difference, then everyone else does... and that could be very wrong... its hard for me to speak of how other people might feel... so im trying to stick with my own experiences.

i mean, love isnt about sex. its not about desiring that bedroom everytime you see him. its hard to say exactly what love is, its everything. sex is just a piece of it, something the two of you share.... its like saying that eating lunch together is something the two of you share... its a piece of love. its not that sex is something that needs to happen, its just something that does if the two so wish.

haha im sorry if i get repetitive... im really just trying to make sense of what im saying so you guys will understand and not be like "she makes no sense!!"

hmm ok...
-Quote-Secondly, if you are trully in love, then you want to spend life with the person who you love. And if you are serious about it, then why don't you marry the person and wait with sex until marriage. Because it would not make much difference if you don't have sex with him until you exchange vows. Because real love is patient.-Quote-

What im trying to do is compare sex to every element to love. because put together it becomes the whole. If youre saying wait till marriage to have sex, then it could be interesting to think: what if we waited till we;re married to have lunch together.

i know that seems extreme. hmm. youre right about saying it wouldnt make much difference to wait to have sex until you echange vows, but if the two are ready i just dont see the reason not to. they know they love eachother.

the people who get dissapointed with love and sex are bringing it apon themselves, as crude as that may sound. (im trying not to be mean... i dont mean any offense to anyone!!!) I feel like those who have had bad experiences (everyone in the world) just need to look at it as part of life. as part of how the world works. and if they keep their chin up, theyll eventually find "the one".

As for secrets. it is still the secret you share with that other person. no two experperiences are shared with another person so the "secret" you shared with A will be different when shared with B. So you may love these people at different stages of your life an d you may share a specifc thing like sex with these people at different stages of your life but they will be different.

all right this is getting too long and i realized i havent meantioned much about God in all of this. I guess what i really want to know is why is all of this considered wrong in His eyes. you guys have been tring to tell me... i know... but i just cant seem to agree. im trying! but i still jsut dont know!

if i seem hostile in anything i said im really not trying to be ahhh hahaha im so confused!! well if anyone has anything to respond id appreciate it

 

[Spazmmeetsboberry]

oh also, how do you quote things people say?