What do you Catholic posters think?

Michie

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I’m sure you’ve all read St. Justin Martyr's Corner: Debate an Orthodox Chr in TAW.

They have some pretty interesting conversations there yet it seems to remain respectful. Do you think OBOB could benefit from a sub-forum like that?

And just to be clear, I have no power either way. It would be up to staff.

I’m just curious if my fellow Catholics would be interested in something like that. It could foster friendship with sincere people here.
 
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Dansiph

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I’m sure you’ve all read St. Justin Martyr's Corner: Debate an Orthodox Chr in TAW.

They have some pretty interesting conversations there yet it seems to remain respectful. Do you think OBOB could benefit from a sub-forum like that?

And just to be clear, I have no power either way. It would be up to staff.

I’m just curious if my fellow Catholics would be interested in something like that. It could foster friendship with sincere people here.
I'm not Catholic yet but I don't learn much from debates and tbh I don't like them in most cases. If it'll help others though that's good. I'm a bit of a hypoctrite though because I have got into debates on here.
 
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Michie

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I’m not crazy about debates either. The point always gets lost in the quest to win. I have to say that I think TAW’s sub-forum turned out well for that purpose. I’ve learned from it.
 
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thecolorsblend

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I’m sure you’ve all read St. Justin Martyr's Corner: Debate an Orthodox Chr in TAW.

They have some pretty interesting conversations there yet it seems to remain respectful. Do you think OBOB could benefit from a sub-forum like that?

And just to be clear, I have no power either way. It would be up to staff.

I’m just curious if my fellow Catholics would be interested in something like that. It could foster friendship with sincere people here.
I don't think we would benefit much from that. The Orthodox probably can because most Americans have very little familiarity with them or their beliefs. There's a real conversation for them to have with others.

By comparison, Protestants regularly try picking fights with Catholic members around here all the time. I spent some time yesterday fending one such off. For a lot of Protestants, being non-Catholic is a core issue of their religious identity. They know enough (or they think they know enough) about us that they're not really interested in discussing ideas with us so much as starting trouble for no reason.

If other people support the idea of a hypothetical debate sub-forum here called John McCloskey's Corner: Debate A Catholic or some such here in OBOB, I guess I have no objection to it. The safe harbor rules may prevent things from getting too out of control. I am willing to keep an open mind about that.

Not sure if I'm willing to participate tho.
 
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Michie

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I don't "win" and the world will still be a dangerous (and interesting) place for me if half a dozen people I can't see understand what I mean. I have never hesitated to debate here if I felt drawn to the effort. Weren't we supposed to?
No. Like all the forums of various Christian communities here, we have the safe haven rule. Nobody is allowed to debate unless you are a member of that community. And even if you are, you can not argue the Faith as it is taught.
 
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Michie

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I don't think we would benefit much from that. The Orthodox probably can because most Americans have very little familiarity with them or their beliefs. There's a real conversation for them to have with others.

By comparison, Protestants regularly try picking fights with Catholic members around here all the time. I spent some time yesterday fending one such off. For a lot of Protestants, being non-Catholic is a core issue of their religious identity. They know enough (or they think they know enough) about us that they're not really interested in discussing ideas with us so much as starting trouble for no reason.

If other people support the idea of a hypothetical debate sub-forum here called John McCloskey's Corner: Debate A Catholic or some such here in OBOB, I guess I have no objection to it. The safe harbor rules may prevent things from getting too out of control. I am willing to keep an open mind about that.

Not sure if I'm willing to participate tho.
Well it’s just something that was floating around in my mind since reading the sub-forum in TAW. They seem to do a good job of it over there. I was just curious how other Catholics felt about the idea. You are right though, there is a lot of anti-Catholic sentiment out there and it’s about what they believe is true. Not what is actually true in the Catholic Faith. That’s not a good start when you show them the truth and they still cling to falsehood concerning the Faith. Even when you prove it is false.
 
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Dansiph

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Well it’s just something that was floating around in my mind since reading the sub-forum in TAW. They seem to do a good job of it over there. I was just curious how other Catholic felt about the idea. You are right though, there is a lot of anti-Catholic sentiment out there and it’s about what they believe is true. Not what is actually true in the Catholic Faith. That’s not a good start when you show them the truth and they still cling to falsehood concerning the Faith. Even when you prove it is false.
For me the biggest hurdle was being honest with myself. I could have debated for weeks and it wouldn't have made a difference.

I keep posting the quote by G K Chesterton about being fair to the Catholic church but it's because I think it's true. I've even been defending Catholic beliefs on here. I read yesterday that Chesterton defended Catholic beliefs so much everyone thought he was Catholic so when he eventually became a Catholic it was a surprise to people that he wasn't already.
 
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Amittai

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... we have the safe haven rule. Nobody is allowed to debate unless you are a member of that community. And even if you are, you can not argue the Faith as it is taught.

You would have to state what kinds of Catholic would qualify. I don't belong to any of the denominations I know exclusively, therefore there have never been grounds for them to maintain it was wrong of me to consider myself a catholic. The site doesn't allow to call oneself "multi denominational".

I don't find Rome teaches convincingly on some points (and asking has only got me sucked into some terrible situations not of my making - which I have actually described to some extent), though of course there are huge areas of overlap with all the other churches. Thus I would be happy discussing here, if the parameters of the new section were made clear enough to not trap me, e.g "Committed Romans only" or "CCC adherents only" (I was deemed to have been made Roman though denied teaching). Perhaps you should specify participants by nationality also?

Then again "arguing (I don't know whether you mean arguing against, or do you mean unpacking and examining?) as it is taught (whatever taught means)". What I'm trying to point out, sound criteria have to be soundly conveyed to ask some people not to contribute.

While Rome told me I was a Roman, and while it gave me elaborate non-answers, it turns out there were unspoken grades or gradations of unacknowledged initiation. In my neighbourhood as a youngster Masses were the only thing going, nothing else, and my parents and grandparents hadn't had any instruction and as I keep reporting very strange events ensued when I enquired further for myself (several clergy had between 1977 and 1984, in two different parts of the country, already warned me not to).

In England generally catholics are only nominally Roman whereas in the US by contrast you all seem to have the heavy package. Cultural expectations lead to mismatches. Certainly I'd enjoy carrying on pitching in here. A strange feature is inexplicable titles for forum sections - I wouldn't have known what "St Justin Martyr" meant apart from an individual.

What I'm trying to say is, a lot of people who were told they were "Catholics" i.e in the circumstances RC, aren't: I suspect England isn't the only such country. Teaching has got to be paraphrasable and then examined to potentially make sense. Otherwise we have no idea what a teaching is. I'm not Roman even though Rome said I was, and it has trapped my affections.

I'm actually interested in giving to its members. A priest thanked me for enhancing the RCIA session about 2 years ago (giving him courage to interrupt a deacon who was pooh poohing Scriptures, which I got the impression he didn't usually dare). It's important to remember not to post any topic in such a section if particpation doesn't strictly need to be limited. Some people flag a thread "such & such people only" and these are listed (with their authors) among the others so one can see what's going on properly.

If you like, pose me a question (either in a thread or by PM) inviting an appropriate level of dissection of points of doctrinal investigation so that you can help me give myself an acceptable label e.g "Honorary Catholic Class 3 and three quarters", I would sincerely enjoy that and be happy to exempt myself where I wasn't wanted as long as you didn't hog topics anyone can legitimately join in. At the moment, I might just say my piece if there is a thread that is sort of "catholick-ish" (and perhaps has gone down well-ish at times).

(Note, I've got no problem with Our Lady up to the standards of my young day, nor with Saints nor Purgatory.)
 
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Michie

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Reading the SOP. That should help clarify things here. All safe haven are like this. Catholics are to be in union with Rome here.
You would have to state what kinds of Catholic would qualify. I don't belong to any of the denominations I know exclusively, therefore there have never been grounds for them to maintain it was wrong of me to consider myself a catholic. The site doesn't allow to call oneself "multi denominational".

I don't find Rome teaches convincingly on some points (and asking has only got me sucked into some terrible situations not of my making - which I have actually described to some extent), though of course there are huge areas of overlap with all the other churches. Thus I would be happy discussing here, if the parameters of the new section were made clear enough to not trap me, e.g "Committed Romans only" or "CCC adherents only" (I was deemed to have been made Roman though denied teaching). Perhaps you should specify participants by nationality also?

Then again "arguing (I don't know whether you mean arguing against, or do you mean unpacking and examining?) as it is taught (whatever taught means)". What I'm trying to point out, sound criteria have to be soundly conveyed to ask some people not to contribute.

While Rome told me I was a Roman, and while it gave me elaborate non-answers, it turns out there were unspoken grades or gradations of unacknowledged initiation. In my neighbourhood as a youngster Masses were the only thing going, nothing else, and my parents and grandparents hadn't had any instruction and as I keep reporting very strange events ensued when I enquired further for myself (several clergy had between 1977 and 1984, in two different parts of the country, already warned me not to).

In England generally catholics are only nominally Roman whereas in the US by contrast you all seem to have the heavy package. Cultural expectations lead to mismatches. Certainly I'd enjoy carrying on pitching in here. A strange feature is inexplicable titles for forum sections - I wouldn't have known what "St Justin Martyr" meant apart from an individual.

What I'm trying to say is, a lot of people who were told they were "Catholics" i.e in the circumstances RC, aren't: I suspect England isn't the only such country. Teaching has got to be paraphrasable and then examined to potentially make sense. Otherwise we have no idea what a teaching is. I'm not Roman even though Rome said I was, and it has trapped my affections.

I'm actually interested in giving to its members. A priest thanked me for enhancing the RCIA session about 2 years ago (giving him courage to interrupt a deacon who was pooh poohing Scriptures, which I got the impression he didn't usually dare). It's important to remember not to post any topic in such a section if particpation doesn't strictly need to be limited. Some people flag a thread "such & such people only" and these are listed (with their authors) among the others so one can see what's going on properly.

If you like, pose me a question (either in a thread or by PM) inviting an appropriate level of dissection of points of doctrinal investigation so that you can help me give myself an acceptable label e.g "Honorary Catholic Class 3 and three quarters", I would sincerely enjoy that and be happy to exempt myself where I wasn't wanted as long as you didn't hog topics anyone can legitimately join in. At the moment, I might just say my piece if there is a thread that is sort of "catholick-ish" (and perhaps has gone down well-ish at times).

(Note, I've got no problem with Our Lady up to the standards of my young day, nor with Saints nor Purgatory.)
 
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Xenophon

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No. Like all the forums of various Christian communities here, we have the safe haven rule. Nobody is allowed to debate unless you are a member of that community. And even if you are, you can not argue the Faith as it is taught.

The benefit of St. Justin's Debate Corner is that the safe haven rule doesn't apply, so anyone from any faith can adequately express their views without fear of censorship. As opposed to the main forum which is 'safe haven' so that Orthodoxy can be expressed and discussed. It often isn't 'debating' so much as an 'ecumenical portal.'

As an outsider of your community who is very interested in Roman affairs, I would really like to have a place to discuss things with ya'll where I don't have to worry about my posts being shut down for expressing my views of the issue (regardless of whether my views are sourced from Roman or Eastern sources, but just because my profile says Orthodox. I once had a post removed where I quoted a Cardinal, but the moderator didn't seem to get the significance of that... Not trying to criticize mods though.)
 
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Gnarwhal

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I’m sure you’ve all read St. Justin Martyr's Corner: Debate an Orthodox Chr in TAW.

They have some pretty interesting conversations there yet it seems to remain respectful. Do you think OBOB could benefit from a sub-forum like that?

And just to be clear, I have no power either way. It would be up to staff.

I’m just curious if my fellow Catholics would be interested in something like that. It could foster friendship with sincere people here.

I mean, I think it could be a healthy thing if we there are members here willing and able to defend the faith in formal debate. For me personally, I want my online debate days to be behind me. I've been on CF long enough to have gotten my fill of argument and debate in the first five years or so.
 
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RushMAN

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I’m sure you’ve all read St. Justin Martyr's Corner: Debate an Orthodox Chr in TAW.

They have some pretty interesting conversations there yet it seems to remain respectful. Do you think OBOB could benefit from a sub-forum like that?

And just to be clear, I have no power either way. It would be up to staff.

I’m just curious if my fellow Catholics would be interested in something like that. It could foster friendship with sincere people here.

It would be cool if it can be kept like the one in TAW
 
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zippy2006

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I don't think we would benefit much from that. The Orthodox probably can because most Americans have very little familiarity with them or their beliefs. There's a real conversation for them to have with others.

By comparison, Protestants regularly try picking fights with Catholic members around here all the time. I spent some time yesterday fending one such off. For a lot of Protestants, being non-Catholic is a core issue of their religious identity. They know enough (or they think they know enough) about us that they're not really interested in discussing ideas with us so much as starting trouble for no reason.

Although I agree with this, it is also true that an internal forum would be less polemical than anti-Catholic threads in the theology forums. If it were created it would have to be a place for inquiry and dialogue, not a place to merely post threads that are nothing more than a link to an online article.
 
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chevyontheriver

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Well it’s just something that was floating around in my mind since reading the sub-forum in TAW. They seem to do a good job of it over there. I was just curious how other Catholics felt about the idea. You are right though, there is a lot of anti-Catholic sentiment out there and it’s about what they believe is true. Not what is actually true in the Catholic Faith. That’s not a good start when you show them the truth and they still cling to falsehood concerning the Faith. Even when you prove it is false.
I think the Orthodox forum can get away with it because 1.) they aren't Catholic, and thus have less anti-Orthodox animus than we would get anti-Catholic animus. I mean, who even knows among the rabid anti-Catholic crowd what the Orthodox even are? And 2.) if they are attacked for 'Catholic' positions they can just say they don't share Catholic beliefs and the rabid anti-Catholic Protestants will be disarmed.

If we tried it here I expect it would be constant warfare all the time, and would be no fun at all. My opinion is that when there is a post out there in the vast arena of anti-Catholic Christian Forums that we can do two things. One is refer a curious person to post in OBOB under the normal rules. We could also 2.) do some teaching here on topics raging elsewhere in the more anti-Catholic parts of the Forums, teaching with clarity so the curious can find it. But to do a debate subforum here would be, I think, an unhappy think. Just my opinion.
 
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Gnarwhal

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If we tried it here I expect it would be constant warfare all the time, and would be no fun at all. My opinion is that when there is a post out there in the vast arena of anti-Catholic Christian Forums that we can do two things. One is refer a curious person to post in OBOB under the normal rules. We could also 2.) do some teaching here on topics raging elsewhere in the more anti-Catholic parts of the Forums, teaching with clarity so the curious can find it. But to do a debate subforum here would be, I think, an unhappy think. Just my opinion.

We'd probably need a very clear set of rules specific to that sub and a crack moderator team dedicated specifically to it to make sure civility is kept. We'd have to have a zero tolerance policy for bad actors and crusaders so that they don't muddy the waters and inspire copycats.

I also don't know if I would 'advertise' the new sub's existence to the rest of CF, because that may invite a lot of brigading at the beginning whereas if we just open it and then genuine seekers would naturally arrive because they have thoughts and issues they want to have an honest debate over.
 
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Amittai

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... do some teaching ... teaching with clarity ...
This would be a good idea to help (and only help) navigate waters muddied by so many authorities. Bad dynamics have become entrenched as doctrines. It is now in fashion to package deal (especially outside the UK) but we probably never really knew what the deal was, anywhere (nor do any denominations). There are parallel authorities, and documentation comes over as patronising. It's inevitable we will be talking about entirely different things. A lifetime of observation around things reputed, at the time, "catholic" won't go to waste though, if I decide not to further offer it at CF. I alluded to what I have witnessed (including rather similar occurrences in other denominations) piecemeal, over several hundred of my previous posts.
 
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Bob Crowley

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The Orthodox and Catholics have more in common than Protestants and Catholics. I think it would be easier to continue a civilised level of debate with Orthodox Christians than with Protestants.

On the other hand, if you're going to be fair dinkum about having a debate, there's not much point in keeping to the rule that "The Faith" can't be criticised. Otherwise the debate is dead in the water before it even starts. All you would have then would be a polite tete-a-tete between Catholics.

If you're thinking about it (and I'd be wary), I think you'd need to stick to one topic at a time eg. The Pope and Papal infallibility, Marianism, Church Councils, the Catholic view of Scripture, the Catholic view of Tradition, the Crusades, Church Fathers, the Apocrypha, the Eucharist, calling Priests "Father", the Magisterium, the Inquisition (and it's modern counterpart The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith), Church history, Papal states etc. etc.

Only comments relevant to that particular topic in any particular debate would be allowed.

Best of luck to you if you do go ahead with it - Murphy's Law would have a pretty good run I should think viz. "If something can go wrong, it will."
 
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Mountainmike

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You identify a real problem for Protestants, that many do indeed define themselves as opponents of Catholicism, indeed several listed on the forum make it seemingly an entire vocation to attack catholic theology.

The problem is of course the attacks are normally ill informed and woefully misleading. Few seem to realise the theological differences between many Protestants groups are far more profound, or indeed the common caricature of Catholicism has little to do with reality.

I think you are right that orthodoxy is less known so genuine questions are more common. Of course the caricature as the “ ancient way” is also disputable!

I’m not convinced a sub forum would be used properly.
But I’d give it a go, if questions were asked.



I don't think we would benefit much from that. The Orthodox probably can because most Americans have very little familiarity with them or their beliefs. There's a real conversation for them to have with others.

By comparison, Protestants regularly try picking fights with Catholic members around here all the time. I spent some time yesterday fending one such off. For a lot of Protestants, being non-Catholic is a core issue of their religious identity. They know enough (or they think they know enough) about us that they're not really interested in discussing ideas with us so much as starting trouble for no reason.

If other people support the idea of a hypothetical debate sub-forum here called John McCloskey's Corner: Debate A Catholic or some such here in OBOB, I guess I have no objection to it. The safe harbor rules may prevent things from getting too out of control. I am willing to keep an open mind about that.

Not sure if I'm willing to participate tho.
 
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