What do you believe are the psychological dynamics of your romantic love?

[bèlla]

I have been analyzing this topic for the last few weeks and probing myself regarding my connections and unwillingness to settle down. I tried to find the words to answer your question positively without veering off course. But perhaps it requires a bit of both to articulate.

I've struggled with the ideals prevalent in Christian relationships. Whether they're touted from the pulpit, best selling books, or regurgitated by others. There's a lot of fluff involved. In my experience simplicity is the winning formula.

My conception of love is very deep. I found a soul love that wound itself in the cracks and crevices of my person and our spirits are one. Everything else pales in comparison. Few are able to traverse that height unreservedly. They need to play it safe.

While I can acknowledge the qualities I find attractive in the opposite sex. On the love plane they fall short. In many respects it feels like I'm going through the motions. There's something within me that goes unfed. A realm they haven't touched.

Psychologically speaking, what does that mean? Risk and a willingness to leap. You can have everything else. But if that's absent it doesn't matter. You've chosen existence instead of life. Once you embrace the latter you can have the life you want and the love too.

~bella

 

[MehGuy]

While there's a certain attraction to the damsel in distress, the attraction is the possibility of being the one to rescue her from it. Being the one causing the distress would be the furthest possible thing from romantic to me.

Interesting. Are you able to elaborate more into what you find attractive about the possibility of rescuing her?

But in general romantic attraction is not that different from friendship to me. Things like common interests and goals in life and just enjoying each other's company is what makes someone attractive to me. Also I am attracted to someone who is similar to me in the things I like about myself while being strong in the areas where I feel deficient.

I see. One thing that has always amazed me is seeing other people fall into what I call "personality love". The ability to develop deep feelings and a strong connection from the personality of another. A type of love that always perplexed me, yet one I so desperately wished to experience myself but have since unfortunately never experienced.

This is not to say that personality is not a very important component regarding compatibility. Failing to screen a potential mate and instead just dating any youthful and neotenous cued masochistic woman would be a foolish endeavor to get myself into. I have a long list of personality traits that I desire in a partner (and in return try to exhibit myself). I have turned down a lot of otherwise compatible women because they failed to live up to them.

These personality traits themselves do nothing in the romantic department. Suffering is still the only way I can feel love. A woman who matches every personality trait I seek will still be impossible to love in a romantic sense of the suffering is not there. It's simply dead in the water.

 

[MehGuy]

I have been analyzing this topic for the last few weeks and probing myself regarding my connections and unwillingness to settle down. I tried to find the words to answer your question positively without veering off course. But perhaps it requires a bit of both to articulate.

I've struggled with the ideals prevalent in Christian relationships. Whether they're touted from the pulpit, best selling books, or regurgitated by others. There's a lot of fluff involved. In my experience simplicity is the winning formula.

What are some of these ideals prevalent in Christian relationships?

I do agree that there is a lot of fluff regarding love within many Christian social circles. Coming from one who was raised in such an environment myself. When one looks at love through a more spiritual and divine lens instead of a more humble and practical evolutionary psychology one a person can be more prone to developing unrealistic expectations from themselves and a potential partner. There are aspects of love I do not like (even from my own type), but we do have to make peace with them and accept people for who they are.. faults and all.

My conception of love is very deep. I found a soul love that wound itself in the cracks and crevices of my person and our spirits are one. Everything else pales in comparison. Few are able to traverse that height unreservedly. They need to play it safe.

Interesting. Care to share some frameworks of your ideal expression and practice of love?

While I can acknowledge the qualities I find attractive in the opposite sex. On the love plane they fall short. In many respects it feels like I'm going through the motions. There's something within me that goes unfed. A realm they haven't touched.

Psychologically speaking, what does that mean? Risk and a willingness to leap. You can have everything else. But if that's absent it doesn't matter. You've chosen existence instead of life. Once you embrace the latter you can have the life you want and the love too.

~bella

Sounds like an understandable desire for a woman. I've read testosterone increases risk taking in men. Perhaps you seek it even more than the average woman?

 

[bèlla]

What are some of these ideals prevalent in Christian relationships?

There's a practice of throwing the baby out with the bath water and discarding the things we've learned en route to God. We establish rules in the place of commonsense and wonder why the results are lacking.

We're told to “Get [skillful and godly] wisdom! Acquire understanding [actively seek spiritual discernment, mature comprehension, and logical interpretation]!

If we were doing that we'd spot the holes in the philosophies touted. We wouldn't fall prey to catchy slogans that sell books and yield little. We'd weigh them by the fruit and results. And if it wasn't forthcoming we wouldn't continue doing it. We'd try a different approach.

We don't have on our thinking caps. And we've lost the value of deduction. We don't substantiate things anymore. We take it at face value and run with it.

It's disingenuous to fill someone's head with spiritual ideals without providing the tools they need for its accomplishment. You have to take the concept and bring it down to earth. What does that look like in the natural?

You've got a bunch people walking around with a head full of bubblegum. They're clueless. They don't know what to do or where to begin. That's shameful. That's not how you prepare someone.

Ignorance is keeping many on the sidelines. They believed belief was enough and discovered they're wrong. Humans don't work like that. If that was the case every one would be mated and they aren't.

No one wants to talk about the stumbling blocks and things keeping you out in the cold. It's easier to spin the rhetoric than face the problem. Meanwhile the hourglass is trickling and another year has come and gone. Before you know it you've got ten under your belt and you're still in the same place. But that's progress.

I may believe in God but I'm not perfect nor is the person scrutinizing me either. They're judging with human lenses too because they're flesh. It's not wholly spiritual. Over spiritualizing the process allows you to ignore the things about yourself you don't want to deal with. You can play the God card.

But if you really believe the bible you couldn't do it. You couldn't bury your head in the sand. You're looking beyond yourself and what's comfortable. You're thinking of your wife and family, the people counting on you, and the Man upstairs. That would compel your effort.

Sanctification is a process but we've gotta participate. That doesn't start at the altar. A good man wants to bring a worthy man to that place. And so does she. When you make an honest assessment you can set realistic goals and expectations. You're not asking for the moon and bringing kibbles. You'll come up short.

We all start somewhere. But you don't have to stay in that place. That's your choice.

There are aspects of love I do not like (even from my own type), but we do have to make peace with them and accept people for who they are.. faults and all.

You're choosing the flaws you can live with. Some will fall away and some won't.

Interesting. Care to share some frameworks of your ideal expression and practice of love?

I value nakedness. The person who can look in the mirror and see the whole and articulate it without shame. I excel at some things and fail at others. But I'm trying. I may not get to all of them. But I want to.

That breeds openness and honest dialogues. You're not afraid to admit you're scared, inexperienced, or insecure. We've all been there. You don't camouflage it with posturing and quotables. You can see through it when you've overcome the same.

When you get real you come home to yourself and see your worth. Then you understand what fearfully and wonderfully made really means. You're not hiding. You can recognize your beauty and someone else's beyond the flaws. And embrace them as-is.

Then you're ready...truly ready to love. Not the situational sort that remains as long as things go your way. But unconditionally. In spite of the hardships and hurts. The bond won't break. It isn't dependent on perfection for sustenance. You've traversed this plane and entered the next.

That's how spiritual unions are formed. It's bigger than you. You can't turn it off and trying hurts like hell. They're a part of you now. And you're part of them. Then we can talk about love covering a multitude of sins. Cause you're at agape.

If I'm going to pledge myself to someone it's that or nothing. Otherwise we're wasting time and will end up like everyone else. There's nothing more satisfying than when someone sees the real you and they're delighted. Truly astounded by your essence. They aren't trying to change or fix you. They take you by the hand and walk.

Sounds like an understandable desire for a woman. I've read testosterone increases risk taking in men. Perhaps you seek it even more than the average woman?

I'm risk taker by nature. I don't know if its more than most. I'll leap for the right one.

~bella

 

[MehGuy]

You're choosing the flaws you can live with. Some will fall away and some won't.

I am talking about more inherit structural flaws. Making peace with the reality that love can end, and that such an end is often involuntary. That your partner will lust after another, and if given a better genetic deck would probably be with someone else. The idea that we do not have a divine "one true love". We're just animals who evolved a strong urge to pair up.

And for a more personal concern, the most likely reality that masochism is innately less empathetic in practice than sadism. I wish it were otherwise.. but I cannot do much else but humble myself and accept the fact. It is better to acknowledge reality than try to fool yourself into believing otherwise.

I value nakedness. The person who can look in the mirror and see the whole and articulate it without shame. I excel at some things and fail at others. But I'm trying. I may not get to all of them. But I want to.

That breeds openness and honest dialogues. You're not afraid to admit you're scared, inexperienced, or insecure. We've all been there. You don't camouflage it with posturing and quotables. You can see through it when you've overcome the same.

When you get real you come home to yourself and see your worth. Then you understand what fearfully and wonderfully made really means. You're not hiding. You can recognize your beauty and someone else's beyond the flaws. And embrace them as-is.

Then you're ready...truly ready to love. Not the situational sort that remains as long as things go your way. But unconditionally. In spite of the hardships and hurts. The bond won't break. It isn't dependent on perfection for sustenance. You've traversed this plane and entered the next.

That's how spiritual unions are formed. It's bigger than you. You can't turn it off and trying hurts like hell. They're a part of you now. And you're part of them. Then we can talk about love covering a multitude of sins. Cause you're at agape.

If I'm going to pledge myself to someone it's that or nothing. Otherwise we're wasting time and will end up like everyone else. There's nothing more satisfying than when someone sees the real you and they're delighted. Truly astounded by your essence. They aren't trying to change or fix you. They take you by the hand and walk.

Hmmm.. I also highly value being open in a relationship.. but it does not make me feel more connected or closer with the other person.. more of a rational logical thing to do. I am aware this is probably a fault in my brain hardwiring.

I tend to be a very open person and love talking about psychology.. I have noticed when I do this with women, many of them report about "falling in love with me". So while it doesn't have an effect on me.. I've certainly seen it have an effect on other people.

Incel types and those who have trouble getting women should take note.. chicks love communicative open men. Lol.

I'm risk taker by nature. I don't know if its more than most. I'll leap for the right one.

~bella

Yeah, maybe even more of a reason to want a risk taker in a man. Like a high earning women wanting an even higher earning man. Feminine and masculine biology is still at play.

 

[bèlla]

I am talking about more inherit structural flaws. Making peace with the reality that love can end, and that such an end is often involuntary. That your partner will lust after another, and if given a better genetic deck would probably be with someone else. The idea that we do not have a divine "one true love". We're just animals who evolved a strong urge to pair up.

I don't think along those lines. Or believe in binding anyone to me. They must remain of their own volition. If I need a rope to keep him home there's a problem. Some people aren't built for monogamy. They'll always stray. You don't build a future with them if you want to be the main squeeze.

Truth be told, I'm the one who usually walks. Not them. I'm not threatened by youth. If you want her go and get her. I don't compete with women. I understand the market and where I fall within the spectrum. There's nothing to fear.

And for a more personal concern, the most likely reality that masochism is innately less empathetic in practice than sadism. I wish it were otherwise.. but I cannot do much else but humble myself and accept the fact. It is better to acknowledge reality than try to fool yourself into believing otherwise.

Telling the truth is important. But that isn't the final answer. It depends on your bend and what you're willing to do to get what you want. If a position brings you pain you can make war to orchestrate the shift. But you must be willing to suffer.

Hmmm.. I also highly value being open in a relationship.. but it does not make me feel more connected or closer with the other person.. more of a rational logical thing to do. I am aware this is probably a fault in my brain hardwiring.

I like transparency. Walls take work and some value the cell more than their liberty. My sledgehammer days are over. You drop them or not.

I tend to be a very open person and love talking about psychology.. I have noticed when I do this with women, many of them report about "falling in love with me". So while it doesn't have an effect on me.. I've certainly seen it have an effect on other people.

I can't say I experienced the same.

But sometimes a person gets a queer idea and I try to discourage it. They're not hearing what I say. They're fascinated with a notion that will never come to pass.

Incel types and those who have trouble getting women should take note.. chicks love communicative open men. Lol.

I don't think they're oblivious to that. They're socially awkward and insecure and can't bridge the gap.

Yeah, maybe even more of a reason to want a risk taker in a man. Like a high earning women wanting an even higher earning man. Feminine and masculine biology is still at play.

Exactly. I'm drawn to strength. I don't like men who consciously feed their weakness. I prefer men willing to play offense against themselves.

~bella

 

[MehGuy]

I don't think along those lines. Or believe in binding anyone to me. They must remain of their own volition. If I need a rope to keep him home there's a problem. Some people aren't built for monogamy. They'll always stray. You don't build a future with them if you want to be the main squeeze.

As someone who is built more for monogamy rather than polyamory I was not really thinking along those extreme lines. Just the realistic possibility that the spark in a relationship can die in time. Gradually or suddenly. This does not mean you or your partner are unstable. Just that organically things can change over time. The film "The Bridges of Madison County" beautifully illustrates this.

Telling the truth is important. But that isn't the final answer. It depends on your bend and what you're willing to do to get what you want. If a position brings you pain you can make war to orchestrate the shift. But you must be willing to suffer.

I guess some people are more willing to believe delusional things than others. Me.. not so much. I cannot help but open my eyes to reality.. no matter how uncomfortable and unsettling. Trying to do otherwise would bring me greater emotional discomfort.

I can't say I experienced the same.

But sometimes a person gets a queer idea and I try to discourage it. They're not hearing what I say. They're fascinated with a notion that will never come to pass.

Sorry, I did not mean to say that it always works. Sometimes women do not like what they see when you open up to them and it can cause them to be repelled and even hate you. While others have a more neutral reaction.

I do not like it when women say they love me after I have been emotionally open with them for a while. This is a strike against her and a strong sign that I should not pursue a relationship with her. I do it mostly for her sake. As someone who cannot fall into "personality love" it would be abusive and unfair to continue the relationship with her. From a personal standpoint I do not like my partner engaging in types of love I do not understand. The whole situation is honestly depressing when it happens.

My ideal relationship is with a woman who is a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] who can only feel romantic love from suffering just like me.. but from the opposite side of the coin. This is not to say I do not want to be with someone who values respect and kindness. I do.. just that they do not emote feelings of love from me.

Sadly this type of woman can be tricky to find. Masochistic women are plenty and incredibly easy to find.. but finding one who is not saddled with the ability to also feel "personality love" is more difficult to come by.

I don't think they're oblivious to that. They're socially awkward and insecure and can't bridge the gap.

Really depends. People in that social sphere sometimes harbor opposite ideas. That women prefer rock hard and emotionally closed off men. If a man shows his emotional side she will be turned off to him. While some women may be like that, there are a healthy amount who actually do appreciate a man who is emotionally open. While most are probably not completely oblivious deep down, I think many could make due having a greater appreciation and belief that being emotionally open with women would improve their success with landing women.

 

[Sunshinee777]

Occasionally I like to make a thread asking other posters how they experience romantic love with their partners. This has been a topic that has greatly interested yet frustrated me for about my whole life.

Regarding my romantic orientation I identify as a sadist empath. Meaning I can only feel romantic love in the context of a woman in pain or suffering. I believe a major component of this attraction is vulnerability. A trait that makes a woman extremely feminine in vibe.

Just as many women seem to find strength and dominance highly masculine in men, I believe many men find the other side of the coin.. weakness and vulnerability highly feminine in women. My attractions are far from unique in this aspect and I strongly suspect the vast majority of men share them.. the major difference is that these attractions seem to be hyper intense compared to the average man. So much so that my mind cannot romantically comprehend anything else.

James Giles has some interesting thoughts about this topic. I know the word sadism scares or upsets some people, but the underlying psychology is probably not as void of morality and decency as you might think.

I have always been insecure about these romantic attractions. During my Christian days I thought my mind was hopelessly warped and potentially evil. As I grew older and became an atheist and developed a deeper comprehension of this psychology and discovered the mechanisms and attractions are not as horrid as it superficially appears.. sadly the insecurity and shame still persists.

Sadism itself is just an expression of empathy, so logically we are capable of feeling guilt and whatnot. Psychological studies are finally picking up on this. Sadists Feel Sad After They Are Sadistic (newsweek.com). If sadism was just an expression of psychopathy (lack of empathy) I wouldn't be dealing with so much conflicted thoughts and emotional distress.

People sometimes wonder why I as a man in my early 30s is single and not married and this is the biggest reason. While the science isn't quote there yet.. I do find it humbling how much damage and heartache a few simple mutations and genetic lines of code can cause a person.

Life would be so much easier if I could just love like a normal person. Which I do not even know what the psychology of that is.. which is why I made this thread. Your turn.

Is this question about what is my ideal partner or what kind of men I always attract? Sorry I'm not very good in English so if you could clarify a bit. Thanks.

 

[bèlla]

As someone who is built more for monogamy rather than polyamory I was not really thinking along those extreme lines. Just the realistic possibility that the spark in a relationship can die in time. Gradually or suddenly. This does not mean you or your partner are unstable. Just that organically things can change over time. The film "The Bridges of Madison County" beautifully illustrates this.

The spark can only die if you allow it. Relationships are a continuum. You can't stop doing the things that got you there. If anything, you should do more once you're committed. The world is full of distractions and escapism is easy.

You need to give them a reason to come home. Not because they should. But because they know they've got it good. You're good for them and good to them too. He should be making his friends jealous (playfully) when he speaks about me. And I should be doing the same.

That's how you keep it fresh. When you slide into monotony that's when the light goes out. I'm not talking about date nights and the modern approach. Every day is date night. You used to get excited when you spoke and saw one another. Why would that change?

You tend the relationship like a garden. Plant when necessary. Weed when required. And water often.

I guess some people are more willing to believe delusional things than others. Me.. not so much. I cannot help but open my eyes to reality.. no matter how uncomfortable and unsettling. Trying to do otherwise would bring me greater emotional discomfort.

I'm not into pain or making things hard on myself. I have to face the truth. I don't have to like it. But I can't ignore it.

Sorry, I did not mean to say that it always works. Sometimes women do not like what they see when you open up to them and it can cause them to be repelled and even hate you. While others have a more neutral reaction.

Healthy relationships require sharing. You should be his sanctuary. The place where he can come and unburden. If he's not coming to you he's talking to someone else. I want to be that someone for my companion.

My ideal relationship is with a woman who is a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] who can only feel romantic love from suffering just like me.. but from the opposite side of the coin. This is not to say I do not want to be with someone who values respect and kindness. I do.. just that they do not emote feelings of love from me.

I understand. I feel the same about being a princess. I can't change it. I like being spoiled and need a companion who enjoys doing that. Like you, I'm honest with myself.

Really depends. People in that social sphere sometimes harbor opposite ideas. That women prefer rock hard and emotionally closed off men. If a man shows his emotional side she will be turned off to him. While some women may be like that, there are a healthy amount who actually do appreciate a man who is emotionally open. While most are probably not completely oblivious deep down, I think many could make due having a greater appreciation and belief that being emotionally open with women would improve their success with landing women.

I'm not turned off by emotion. I want him to express himself. But people led by their emotions can overwhelm me. They're always emoting and that's tiring. I don't want an emotional response to everything.

~bella

 

[MehGuy]

Is this question about what is my ideal partner or what kind of men I always attract? Sorry I'm not very good in English so if you could clarify a bit. Thanks.

This thread is more asking how you personally experience romance. Sort of like "love languages".

 

[Sunshinee777]

This thread is more asking how you personally experience romance. Sort of like "love languages".

My love language has changed from "Love someone who doesn't love you back" to "love everyone from far away so it's safe" (I don't actually know what love language means)