What do Wesleyans believe about speaking in tongues?

[Maid Marie]

"Tarry Rooms" are more common within the Pentecostal arena. I know Aimee McPherson had one off the side of her Angelus Temple in the 1920s and 1930s, where parishioners could seek Spirit baptism in an area separate from the main sanctuary. However, I've occasionally came across non-Pentecostal churches that have self-proclaimed "Tarry Rooms" for their more Charismatic curious members that wish to explore or received Spirit baptism.

I've only been in two P/C churches so my experience is limited. But since my A/G friends never mentioned them either, I was thrown off by terminology.

 

[Maid Marie]

The Nazarene churches I know of are certainly hesitant to the gifts.

There is more than one kind of cessationism [Cessationism - Wikipedia]. The only full cessationists that I have encountered in the CotN were ones influenced by reformed or Baptist theology. They are in some pockets of the North American CotN but it is not widespread. More mild cessationists are probably throughout the USA and Canada in the CotN. Ex. in my church we practice divine healing [I'm leading the service tonight in fact] and I have testified how God divinely healed a serious smoker from lung cancer, in which her lungs became pink and healthy in a miraculous way. But to say one speaks in tongues [as in a prayer language] - we're mostly firmly closed to this.

 

[Spirit of Pentecost]

There is more than one kind of cessationism [Cessationism - Wikipedia]. The only full cessationists that I have encountered in the CotN were ones influenced by reformed or Baptist theology. They are in some pockets of the North American CotN but it is not widespread. More mild cessationists are probably throughout the USA and Canada in the CotN. Ex. in my church we practice divine healing [I'm leading the service tonight in fact] and I have testified how God divinely healed a serious smoker from lung cancer, in which her lungs became pink and healthy in a miraculous way. But to say one speaks in tongues [as in a prayer language] - we're mostly firmly closed to this.

Well, traditionally, it does seem as if the Baptists are more firm on the belief that the gifts have ceased.

 

[Spirit of Pentecost]

I've only been in two P/C churches so my experience is limited. But since my A/G friends never mentioned them either, I was thrown off by terminology.

They aren't overly common, but I have heard of them. None of the Pentecostal churches I've ever been to have had one. It's usually the larger churches perhaps that don't want to scare off newcomers, so they set up a "Tarry Room" for parishioners to go to away from the larger crowd. That's from what I've read, anyhow.

 

[Follow The Narrow]

Methocostal, on the other hand, I don't know if I've ever heard before. Not too sure on that one.

My church gets accused of that exact word because we are an "amen, hand raising" church. I don't really mind because I have a pentecostal background. I just never fit in at pentecostal churches. But, yeah, Methocostal is a word said. In fact, my pastor gets called that, haha.

 

[Dave-W]

There is more than one kind of cessationism [Cessationism - Wikipedia]. The only full cessationists that I have encountered in the CotN were ones influenced by reformed or Baptist theology.

That is true. But Reform/Baptist? It goes way back before they existed. Do a study on the Church (pre-catholic/orthodox split) responded to a guy named Montanus. That is where cessationism came from.

Ex. in my church we practice divine healing [I'm leading the service tonight in fact] and I have testified how God divinely healed a serious smoker from lung cancer, in which her lungs became pink and healthy in a miraculous way. But to say one speaks in tongues [as in a prayer language] - we're mostly firmly closed to this.

Yeah - I get that. But IMO one can ONLY come to such a mixed position by not looking too hard or applying scripture in an inconsistent way.

A HUGE part of the problem is the Classic Pentecostals' insistence that Tongues was "THE Evidence" of the Holy Spirit. Taken to the extremes, it can lead to errors like some groups insistence that if you do not speak in tongues you are not even saved.

That is ridiculous.

 

[Dave-W]

My church gets accused of that exact word because we are an "amen, hand raising" church.

Interesting. Paul's mentioning that borders on a command:

1 Timothy 2:8 Therefore I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and dissension.

So to deny that you are supposed to do that borders on overt disobedience.

 

[Follow The Narrow]

Interesting. Paul's mentioning that borders on a command:

1 Timothy 2:8 Therefore I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and dissension.

So to deny that you are supposed to do that borders on overt disobedience.

Absolutely. I don't like the thought of being told I can't do that. Most churches are fine with it but in my past I've gone to baptist churches who seemed to object. For me, we should worship comfortably, whatever that means for us, and if we feel condemned, that quenches The Spirit within us.

 

[Rawtheran]

What do the Wesleyan denominations, such as the Methodists and the Nazarenes (and their divisions), believe about the charismatic spiritual gifts? Where do they stand on the cessationist and continuationist view of things?

One of the things that I love about the United Methodist Church is that they seem to accept people who believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit such as healing, prophetic prayer, tongues, etc. although I've never been to a congregation where the Pastor or someone speaks in tongues and another interprets it. In my conference in West Ohio we actually have a seminary called United Theological Seminary that offers a concentration in Wesleyan studies and the Charismatic movement and we also have clergy who believe in the gifts of the Spirit though they are mainly on the younger side. I was also reading through here and I love how many people refer to the belief in the Charismatic movement as Methacostals, because thats the term that an Army Chaplain I talked to once refered to himself as when I was helping him out during Annual Training and I also would describe myself as one as well.

 

[Anto9us]

Do a study on the Church (pre-catholic/orthodox split) responded to a guy named Montanus. That is where cessationism came from.

Do you mean, Dave, that Cessationism came AS A REACTION to Montanism?

 

[ParsonBrown]

Concerning the origins of Pentecostalism, one view holds that all of the contemporary Pentecostal denominations had their origins in the Methodist-Holiness movement. That view is supported by Vinson Synan (The Holiness-Pentecostal Movement) and Donald Dayton (Theological Roots of Pentecostalism). Another view has been proposed by Edith Blumhofer (Restoring the Faith) who suggests the Assembly of God has roots in the more historical Calvinistic leaning Presbyterian and Baptist denominations. Dayton, in a paper presented to the Pentecostal studies group challenges Blumhofer's thesis and presents a fairly convincing argument that all contemporary Pentecostal denominations grew out of the Methodist-Holiness movement. Blumhofer's argument stems, it seems to me, from a sociological reading of the movement, that a number of people who became Pentecostal belonged to Presbyterian and Baptist denominations. Dayton and Synan, on the other hand, develop a theological argument. They contend that Pentecostal denominations are much more Arminian in theology and propose there is a second work of grace subsequent to salvation which fills a person with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Hank77]

Yeah - I get that. But IMO one can ONLY come to such a mixed position by not looking too hard or applying scripture in an inconsistent way.

But to say one speaks in tongues [as in a prayer language] - we're mostly firmly closed to this.

Imho, I don't see the inconsistency. Marie said, 'as a prayer language' which distinguishes it from the 'gift of tongues' which is a witness and an earthly language that can be understood by some group of people. It is used as it was on Pentecost to speak the Gospel, etc. to other people in their language/dialect. I have heard of two cases of this in my life time.

A HUGE part of the problem is the Classic Pentecostals' insistence that Tongues was "THE Evidence" of the Holy Spirit. Taken to the extremes, it can lead to errors like some groups insistence that if you do not speak in tongues you are not even saved.

That is ridiculous.

I agree and I was in Pentecostal churches for almost 40 years. It's hard to find a church that believes the gifts are still in effect for today without adding excessive teaching to it.

 

[actionsub]

Concerning the origins of Pentecostalism, one view holds that all of the contemporary Pentecostal denominations had their origins in the Methodist-Holiness movement. That view is supported by Vinson Synan (The Holiness-Pentecostal Movement) and Donald Dayton (Theological Roots of Pentecostalism)... Dayton and Synan, on the other hand, develop a theological argument. They contend that Pentecostal denominations are much more Arminian in theology and propose there is a second work of grace subsequent to salvation which fills a person with the Holy Spirit.

It is my opinion that the Dayton/Synan case is far stronger, especially based from the historical fact that the "movement" as a whole started from a Methodist Bible school in Kansas. That incident stemmed from Charles Parham's instruction to his students to find a common thread among the Biblical accounts of someone receiving the "Baptism of the Holy Ghost" (which at that time was used to denote someone receiving "entire sanctification" and having their sin nature eradicated).
Blumhofer's case might apply to the Assemblies of God in their choice to embrace the "finished work of Christ" doctrine and reject the concept of "entire sanctification" as a subsequent event in the Christian life that was part of the Pentecostal Holiness teaching (ex. Church of God-Cleveland, IPHC).

 

[ParsonBrown]

That is interesting concerning the "finished work of Christ", something I first learned about studying the life of A.B. Simpson. Simpson was from a Presbyterian background before his association with the C&MA, so that would seem to be a connection. Thanks

 

[dreadnought]

What do the Wesleyan denominations, such as the Methodists and the Nazarenes (and their divisions), believe about the charismatic spiritual gifts? Where do they stand on the cessationist and continuationist view of things?

I am one United Methodist who thinks a lot of today's speaking in tongues is not genuine. Paul did say not to speak in tongues unless someone is there to interpret.

 

[ParsonBrown]

Wesley was amazed at the response of the Moravians who remained calm during a storm on his return trip from America to England. On May 24, 1738, according to Wesley's journal, while he was listening to someone read Luther's preface to the Epistle to the Romans, "I felt my heart strangely warmed." His theology, which was rooted in scripture, was also concerned with the experiential. While he was expressed concerns about "enthusiasts" (people who were very expressive in their worship), in Sermon 89 he notes "It does not appear that these extraordinary gifts of the Holy Ghost were common in the church for more than two or three centuries..... The cause of this was not, (as has been vulgarly supposed,) `because there was no more occasion for them,’ because all the world was become Christians....The real cause was, `the love of many,’ almost of all Christians, so called, was ‘waxed cold.’ "
Conversely, in his "A Farther Appeal to Men of Reason and Religion", he states "Much less do I make this, any more than ‘convulsions, agonies, howlings, roarings, and violent contortions of the body,’ either ‘certain signs of men’s being in a state of salvation,’ or ‘necessary in order thereunto.’ " So it seems fair to say that Wesley was neither a cessasionist nor a proto-pentecostal. He taught that there was a balance between those who rejected the gifts as apostolic era only and those who believed the gifts were a proof of one's Christian experience.

 

[danbuter]

I have never encountered what is commonly referred to as speaking in tongues in a Methodist Church.

Yeah, speaking in tongues is most definitely NOT a part of Methodist beliefs.

 

[Spirit of Pentecost]

Yeah, speaking in tongues is most definitely NOT a part of Methodist beliefs.

I think this would depend entirely on the Methodist individual that you ask. From what I have gathered, Methodists are among the denominations that are traditionally continuationist in their theology, along with Lutherans, Pentecostals, and Charismatics.

 

[danbuter]

I grew up Methodist, and no one I ever met at church took speaking in tongues seriously.

In fact, in the Bible (Acts 2:8), it meant that the Galileans could suddenly speak in real languages to people from other countries. They didn't speak gibberish at all.

 

[JCFantasy23]

I've never heard my church talk about it one way or another, and haven't seen another Methodist do it in services. However, I did do it once - to my surprise - after being baptized and being received into church membership with a group of people when everyone was talking and reciting. I believe people can do it, but I do believe there is too much emphasis on it in general and that leads to some confused church practices.