What do our distant cousins in Europe think of the U.S. now?

[Basil the Great]

Do they think that we have lost our minds?

 

[Nithavela]

Do they think that we have lost our minds?

I think you have lost your mind when you made Trump your president and that this is only a natural progression of insanity.

 

[Lost4words]

Haven't you always lost your minds?

 

[High Fidelity]

I think what has happened in the past few weeks is a product of the past few years.

Hopefully calm heads prevail and both parties grow up.

 

[Robban]

Do they think that we have lost our minds?

Lost something mate.

 

[Halbhh]

I think what has happened in the past few weeks is a product of the past few years.

Hopefully calm heads prevail and both parties grow up.

I think a lot of people feel that way, and that's why we elected such an old person (who still has adequate clarity it seems to go along with his elderly wisdom, we have been seeing).

 

[Nithavela]

I think a lot of people feel that way, and that's why we elected such an old person (who still has adequate clarity it seems to go along with his elderly wisdom, we have been seeing).

You elected such an old person because he was the VP of Obama.

 

[Vanellus]

Always expect the unexpected in life. Who would have thought an unknown tiny virus would have caused so much death, illness and economic misery this year.

But if you look up what Boris Yeltsin did to the Moscow White House in 1993 you'll see that worse things have been done in the lust for political power.

I'm no Trump supporter and think he should be impeached so that no precedent is set. This needs stamping on so it doesn't happen again.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Always expect the unexpected in life. Who would have thought an unknown tiny virus would have caused so much death, illness and economic misery this year.

But if you look up what Boris Yeltsin did to the Moscow White House in 1993 you'll see that worse things have been done in the lust for political power.

I'm no Trump supporter and think he should be impeached so that no precedent is set. This needs stamping on so it doesn't happen again.

Actually, it wasn't Boris Yeltsin who was the problem maker in that incident in Moscow in 1993.

Just an f.y.i.

 

[com7fy8]

I don't think you can cookie-cut all people to see the United States the same way, about this situation.

But there are ones trying to run a "what will everyone think?" scam, when people don't all see alike. Each party has people who are trying to use this to make the other party look bad.

And I don't personally know the people who did the attack. My impression is not all were on the same page, though they swarmed the White House with each other. There are many Americans whom they do not represent; so evaluating democracy and America by their moment of activity is what could be considered crazy . . . or clever politics and propaganda.

I have been told that Donald had tens of thousands of people at his speech. We did not see tens of thousands of people swarming the While House property, never mind actually enter the House. And the ones who got in were not all crazy, but they knew exactly what they were doing.

Those who trust in violence as their way did what they do. But many many more did not do that. And I know how certain people can get caught up in doing things they usually would not do, and later they are saying, "oh-oh". Now some number of the MAGA people realize there were ringleaders trying to get them caught up in what they would never premeditate doing, and hopefully they now are the wiser.

I suppose a number of the ones who got into the White House were surprised to be there, and did not know what to do with it. It was crazy, maybe to them, that they were in there.

 

[Vanellus]

Actually, it wasn't Boris Yeltsin who was the problem maker in that incident in Moscow in 1993.

Just an f.y.i.

Yeltsin was the poster boy of the west because of the perception that he ended "communism" - oligarchism and Putin being such an improvement!
But

On 21 September 1993, in breach of the constitution, Yeltsin announced in a televised address his decision to disband the Supreme Soviet and Congress of People's Deputies by decree. In his address, Yeltsin declared his intent to rule by decree until the election of the new parliament and a referendum on a new constitution, triggering the constitutional crisis of October 1993. On the night after Yeltsin's televised address, the Supreme Soviet declared Yeltsin removed from the presidency for breaching the constitution, and Vice-President Alexander Rutskoy was sworn in as acting president.[115]

Between 21 and 24 September, Yeltsin was confronted by popular unrest. Demonstrators protested the terrible living conditions under Yeltsin. Since 1989, GDP had declined by half. Corruption was rampant, violent crime was skyrocketing, medical services were collapsing, food and fuel were increasingly scarce and life expectancy was falling for all but a tiny handful of the population; moreover, Yeltsin was increasingly getting the blame. By early-October, Yeltsin had secured the support of Russia's army and ministry of interior forces. In a massive show of force, Yeltsin called up tanks to shell the Russian White House (parliament building). The attack killed 187 people and wounded almost 500 others

Maybe Yeltsin wasn't such a great man after all.

 

[Vanellus]

I don't think you can cookie-cut all people to see the United States the same way, about this situation.

But there are ones trying to run a "what will everyone think?" scam, when people don't all see alike. Each party has people who are trying to use this to make the other party look bad.

And I don't personally know the people who did the attack. My impression is not all were on the same page, though they swarmed the White House with each other. There are many Americans whom they do not represent; so evaluating democracy and America by their moment of activity is what could be considered crazy . . . or clever politics and propaganda.

I have been told that Donald had tens of thousands of people at his speech. We did not see tens of thousands of people swarming the While House property, never mind actually enter the House. And the ones who got in were not all crazy, but they knew exactly what they were doing.

Those who trust in violence as their way did what they do. But many many more did not do that. And I know how certain people can get caught up in doing things they usually would not do, and later they are saying, "oh-oh". Now some number of the MAGA people realize there were ringleaders trying to get them caught up in what they would never premeditate doing, and hopefully they now are the wiser.

I suppose a number of the ones who got into the White House were surprised to be there, and did not know what to do with it. It was crazy, maybe to them, that they were in there.

There could be a lot of people who weren't in Washington who wished they had broken into the capitol.

 

[com7fy8]

There could be a lot of people who weren't in Washington who wished they had broken into the capitol.

Yes, there could be ones, also, then, who think there are Americans who are crazy because they haven't done more than the rioters did.

While I was in boot camp, word got out how there was a "big black guy", if I remember right, who was going around stabbing dormitory guards, during the night. I asked an enlisted guy, and he said, oh yeah a couple guys got stabbed and this and that. The way he said it sounded like he was saying it was true if I was stupid enough to believe it.

Then, one night I was on my bunk and guys were streaming toward the front end of the barracks. I thought they were all running to get away from the stabber. We were all put back to bed.

Then it seemed not long after that someone yelled from the front end of the barracks that he was there, and they went streaming that way and ones were saying "let's get him". Then I realized they weren't running from the guy. And I think then was when I stayed on my bunk.

The duty enlisted officer told us to go back to bed and stay there. The next morning our enlisted commanding officer told us there was no "bogey man".

But somehow at least one person got people to believe there was a stabber, that the person was big and "black", and then someone had on purpose yelled he was there. And many of the recruits went out to get him.

I then understood that that was an opportunity for each of us to realize that someone can start a rumor and then control a large number of people by yelling what is not true.

I was curious if naval personnel arranged that in order to give us an object lesson, and if that was part of the training for every barracks company.

I remember that maybe all of us were "white", and the bogey man was said to be "black".

And there was nothing to it.

I think of how one White House raider, at least, was calling out "hang Pence". One person, maybe some more, were calling that. Maybe that was like whoever yelled that the bogey man was there. Not necessarily everyone was into that, I would say. But ones were trying to highjack the riot in that direction.

But yes there are people who would think they were crazy not to hang him. Not all have the same standards. In the United States there are a lot of people who are ok with killing unborn people; ones on each side of this issue feel each other are crazy. People do not claim to see things the same way. If a lot of people can kill the unborn for convenience, I suppose there could be a lot of people who would be ok with killing a politician for convenience. There used to be a number of lynch mobs in the United States, out west and in enforcement of slavery. So, yes humans are capable of this.

I remember times when I thought things and thought I was so smart. Then I found that I wasn't. How long will this continue? We will see

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Yeltsin was the poster boy of the west because of the perception that he ended "communism" - oligarchism and Putin being such an improvement!
But

Maybe Yeltsin wasn't such a great man after all.

I didn't say that Yeltsin was a "great man." However, that is neither here nor there for this thread. The truth is, your analogy between what happened in 1993 in Moscow and what happened last week in the U.S. is skewed.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

Do they think that we have lost our minds?

Concern from me.
I hear ... ...

• lots of people don't have medical coverage.
• lot's of people have guns and are willing to use them against each other for one reason or another.
• Death penalty.
• Highest incarceration rate in world.
• Drug problem. (War on drugs, prisons full due to drug convictions, addiction including prescription drug addiction)
• Left vs Right violence, aggression.
• Poor quality police on average nationwide.
• Poor quality justice (people admitting to crimes they didn't do as the safest option, people often being accused of crimes they didn't do - seeming like filing charges against people are a numbers game??, long prison sentences, hellish/corrupt prisons)
• Huge military (what does that do to the mentality / opinion of a population)
• Very poor quality food.
• Significant amount of the christianity being poor quality (aggressive, self righteous etc).
• Poor quality media - through news, SM and through personalities.
• Talk of civil war.
• Starting wars or getting into wars where there is not a clear and immediate threat of attack on ones own country. Vietnam, Iraq.

All the above are things I've heard (or been witness to in some cases). I can't say how true this all is. The above is (obviously) not a full picture either as I've omitted good things.
I'm not an expert on what makes a civilisation thrive or become impoverished. Nor do I know to what extent the above is burdensome to the prosperity of a nation - Id assume, very burdensome indeed.
I feel concern.
In answer, what I think is that if the above items are true, there is trouble ahead for US society. I'm also holding back being too concerned until I have a clearer picture one day - I don't really know what I'm talking about to expert level. I have my experiences, news reports and other media - which will not be a complete picture.

 

[Kalevalatar]

I have been politically active for 40 and all those decades have witnessed the gradual decline of the United States, in terms of international power, social progess, democracy, economically and moral/values vice. Trump is not a first. Americans over and over again have been seduced to electing incompetent presidents who can't resists the dark side: Reagan and Iran-Contra, G.H. Bush and Nurse Nayirah, Clinton and Lewinsky, G.W. Bush and WMDs lies. Obama was perhaps somewhat more moral character when it came to war, women and other vices, but he was too soft on Putin and too soft on the Bush administration's war crimes.

I wasn't too surprised that Americans -- well, the EC -- then went to elect Trump as their next leader. Trump is the perfect president for the 21st century United States of America. But I am surprised that he managed to bring the United States and almost 250 years of democratic progess down in just 4 years. Sure, I excepted him to be incompetent and uninterested in the actual job, and he had seeming trouble to recruit competent people. But I never expected him to be such pure, deliberate evil. I am horrified that such a man was allowed to hold the highest office in the United States. That does not reflect well on all the Americans alive and it certainly does not bode well for the future of the United States of America.

 

[Vanellus]

I didn't say that Yeltsin was a "great man." However, that is neither here nor there for this thread. The truth is, your analogy between what happened in 1993 in Moscow and what happened last week in the U.S. is skewed.

They were both attacks on a symbol of state power.

 

[Halbhh]

Concern from me.
I hear ... ...

• lots of people don't have medical coverage.
• lot's of people have guns and are willing to use them against each other for one reason or another.
• Death penalty.
• Highest incarceration rate in world.
• Drug problem. (War on drugs, prisons full due to drug convictions, addiction including prescription drug addiction)
• Left vs Right violence, aggression.
• Poor quality police on average nationwide.
• Poor quality justice (people admitting to crimes they didn't do as the safest option, people often being accused of crimes they didn't do - seeming like filing charges against people are a numbers game??, long prison sentences, hellish/corrupt prisons)
• Huge military (what does that do to the mentality / opinion of a population)
• Very poor quality food.
• Significant amount of the christianity being poor quality (aggressive, self righteous etc).
• Poor quality media - through news, SM and through personalities.
• Talk of civil war.
• Starting wars or getting into wars where there is not a clear and immediate threat of attack on ones own country. Vietnam, Iraq.

All the above are things I've heard (or been witness to in some cases). I can't say how true this all is. The above is (obviously) not a full picture either as I've omitted good things.
I'm not an expert on what makes a civilisation thrive or become impoverished. Nor do I know to what extent the above is burdensome to the prosperity of a nation - Id assume, very burdensome indeed.
I feel concern.
In answer, what I think is that if the above items are true, there is trouble ahead for US society. I'm also holding back being too concerned until I have a clearer picture one day - I don't really know what I'm talking about to expert level. I have my experiences, news reports and other media - which will not be a complete picture.

Well, that's "through a glass darkly" there. Or even a little distorted. We are pretty far from a genuine civil war, unless one calls a large riot or group of riots or a summer of protests, etc., a 'civil war.' If by 'civil war' one meant the real thing, like in the 1860s, then we are very, very distant from that, except in the heated imaginations of a tiny minority. 1/2 of 1% vs maybe about 90% that would oppose them isn't really much of a 'war' but more like 'unrest'.

So, the real picture of America is that a lot more people are warm and friendly most of the time, and do a lot of good towards their neighbors.

That's simply the genuine reality, most places, most of the time.

On the whole, despite unrest that happens, this country is still mostly ok. That could change, but the forces that push in the good direction are strong, wide, and deep.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

...people are warm and friendly most of the time, and do a lot of good towards their neighbors...

I omitted that bit, but i found this true a lot of the time too. When I lived there - a good portion of the people were exceptionally warm and friendly. They were open minded, loved listening to other people’s experiences etc. Had good hearts. I loved them.

 

[Larniavc]

Do they think that we have lost our minds?

To be honest the western world knew that America was an awful, racist place where you're nothing if you are poor and disadvantaged if you are not white. Where the rule is "forget you, I've got mine" and many people would rather cut their metaphorical hand off rather than see someone else get something they themselves don't need or want.

ETA: forgot to add unimaginably violent for a developed nation with ironically a health care 'system' that is so expensive that it bankrupts people.

But I guess you do have the freedom to be and remain very very rich if you made the right decision to be born into wealth.