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What do Messianics Believe about the State of the Dead

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by eleos1954, Jul 19, 2020.

  1. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    What happens with the person after earthly death?

    Please provide supporting text(s)

    Thank you.
     
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  2. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    A lot of Jewish Kings slept with their fathers.
    1. 1 Kings 2:10
      So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David.

    2. 1 Kings 11:43
      And Solomon slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David his father: and Rehoboam his son reigned in his stead.

    3. 1 Kings 14:31
      And Rehoboam slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David. And his mother's name was Naamah an Ammonitess. And Abijam his son reigned in his stead.

    4. 1 Kings 15:8
      And Abijam slept with his fathers; and they buried him in the city of David: and Asa his son reigned in his stead.

    5. 1 Kings 15:24
      And Asa slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David his father: and Jehoshaphat his son reigned in his stead.

    6. 1 Kings 22:50
      And Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David his father: and Jehoram his son reigned in his stead.

    7. 2 Kings 8:24
      And Joram slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David: and Ahaziah his son reigned in his stead.

    8. 2 Kings 15:7
      So Azariah slept with his fathers; and they buried him with his fathers in the city of David: and Jotham his son reigned in his stead.

    9. 2 Kings 15:38
      And Jotham slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David his father: and Ahaz his son reigned in his stead.

    10. 2 Kings 16:20
      And Ahaz slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David: and Hezekiah his son reigned in his stead.

    11. 2 Chronicles 9:31
      And Solomon slept with his fathers, and he was buried in the city of David his father: and Rehoboam his son reigned in his stead.

    12. 2 Chronicles 12:16
      And Rehoboam slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David: and Abijah his son reigned in his stead.

    13. 2 Chronicles 14:1
      So Abijah slept with his fathers, and they buried him in the city of David: and Asa his son reigned in his stead. In his days the land was quiet ten years.

    14. 2 Chronicles 21:1
      Now Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David. And Jehoram his son reigned in his stead.

    15. 2 Chronicles 27:9
      And Jotham slept with his fathers, and they buried him in the city of David: and Ahaz his son reigned in his stead.

    16. 2 Chronicles 32:33
      And Hezekiah slept with his fathers, and they buried him in the chiefest of the sepulchres of the sons of David: and all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem did him honour at his death. And Manasseh his son reigned in his stead.
     
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  3. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Agree with all this of course as is straight scripture .... so .... sleep ... all are in the graves (dormant sleep) until the Lord returns and the 1st resurrection happens ... or ????
     
  4. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    or what?
     
  5. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    LOL ... that's what I'm asking you .... sleep/slept .... what is the Messianic belief?

    Example of same

    1 Thessalonians 4

    The Return of the Lord

    13Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope.

    14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.

    16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.

    17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

    18Therefore encourage one another with these words.
     
  6. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    Excellent verses
     
  7. TreWalker

    TreWalker Jewish Magen Am

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    One of the fundamental beliefs of Judaism is that life does not begin with birth, nor does it end with death. This is articulated in the verse in Kohelet (Ecclesiastes 12:7), “And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to G‑d, who gave it.”

    In Jewish understanding it means the dust of the body existed before birth, and the spirit that exists within you does not 'perish' but changes location. We were, we are, we will be.

    A basic law of physics known as the first law of thermodynamics is that no energy is ever “lost” or destroyed; it only assumes another form. If such is the case with physical energy, how much more so a spiritual entity such as the soul, whose existence is not limited by time, space, or any of the other delineators of the physical state. Certainly, the spiritual energy that in the human being is the source of sight and hearing, emotion and intellect, will and consciousness does not cease to exist merely because the physical body has ceased to function; rather, it passes from one form of existence (physical life as expressed and acted via the body) to a higher, exclusively spiritual form of existence.

    "Olam Ha Ba" literally means "the world to come" in Hebrew. Early rabbinic texts describe Olam Ha Ba as a physical realm that will exist at the end-of-days after the Messiah has come and G-d has judged both the living and the dead. The righteous dead will be resurrected to enjoy a second life in Olam Ha Ba.

    Our Jewish rabbi taught us that there is a 'world to come' after our lives here;
    Matthew 12:32
    And whoever speaks a word against the Ben HaAdam [Moshiach] will be granted selicha (forgiveness), but whoever speaks against the Ruach Hakodesh, selicha will not be granted him either in the Olam Hazeh or in the Olam Habah.​

    As did his tzadikim;
    John 3:12
    If I told you about things of the Olam Hazeh and you have no emunah, how will you have emunah if I tell you about the things of the Olam Haba?

    John 3:17
    For Hashem did not send the Ben HaElohim into the Olam Hazeh that he might judge the Olam Hazeh, but that the Olam Hazeh might be brought to the Geulah (Redemption) of the Olam Haba through him (Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach). [YESHAYAH 53:11]

    Luke 16:9
    And I say to you, use the mammon (the wealth of the Olam HaZeh) to make for yourselves yedidim (friends, chaverim), so that when unrighteous mammon fails, they may welcome you into the mishkenot olam (eternal dwellings of the Olam HaBah).​

    The geulah is the resurrection of the dead, at Moshiach's return. The only Jewish sect that was vehemently opposed to this were the Tzadokim (Sadducees), the Prushim (Pharisees) fully believed in the resurrection of the dead, and an afterlife. The only issue 'some' of the pharisees had was they did not believe Yeshua was the Moshiach. Otherwise they too believed in living eternally in the world to come.

    So, when we die our bodies return to the dust of the earth, ashes to ashes. And our spirit returns to Hashem. Both still exist. (Kohelet 12:7) Awaiting the coming redemption (geulah) where we are resurrected and restored to life eternal.

    When Moshiach returns and restores all things our bodies will be resurrected to live eternally in the Olam Haba. (above verses)
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2020
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  8. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Agree as put forth ...

    Genesis 2:7

    7Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living being.

    Ecclesiastes 12:7

    before the dust returns to the ground from which it came and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

    Mark 15:37
    But Jesus let out a loud cry and breathed His last.

    dust ... not in the physical sense ... but perhaps in the spiritual sense. Perhaps in relation to His image ... and we were created in His Image.

    Correct .... however the physical energy is from the breath of life received from God.

    Yes ... I agree ... and this represents one's character ... and our character is stored in heaven in the form of records ... ie ... Book of Life.

    Both the physical body (made from dust) and the spiritual energy (breath of life from God) makes up the person as a whole = soul = a living being.

    Jesus did want us to know we would also indeed have physical bodies in eternity.

    Luke 24:39

    Look at My hands and My feet. It is I Myself. Touch Me and see—for a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

    Agree ... and this will ultimately be in the new heavens and new earth (the new world to come) He will create.

    Revelation 21

    1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

    3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying:
    “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man,
    and He will dwell with them.
    They will be His people,
    and God Himself will be with them as their God.

    4‘He will wipe away every tear from their eyes,’
    and there will be no more death
    or mourning or crying or pain,
    for the former things have passed away.”

    5And the One seated on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” Then He said, “Write this down, for these words are faithful and true.” 6And He told me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give freely from the spring of the water of life. 7The one who overcomes will inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son.

    I think we are mostly in agreement as far as I can see ;o)

    Thank you so much for your detailed response!
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2020
  9. Broken Fence

    Broken Fence God blessed and hallowed the 7th day Supporter

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  10. GedaliahMaegil

    GedaliahMaegil Messianic Ger Toshav

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    A living soul is dust into which HaShem breathed the spirit of life (cf. B`resheet (Genesis) 2:7). When one dies, the body returns to dust, while the spirit returns to the One Who gave it (cf. Qohelet (Ecclesiastes) 12:7). The only means by which one becomes again a living soul is through revival (i.e. resurrection).
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2020
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