What do Christians think of the Jewish messiah?

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We capitalize Torah.

Sometimes I do, sometimes I use all caps, "TORAH".

Your post does contain one thing we agree on. Jesus died. A Jewish messiah must be alive to be considered as such.

He is alive and only the weak human body died, not his soul/spirit plus he resurrected into a glorified body.

That's probably the most basic requirement when discussing the "Jewish Messiah".

All requirements were met by Jesus.
 
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As its not going to be Jesus Son of Mary, who will this messiah be?

Christians believe that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah, and that the Old Testament prophecy foretold that they would reject Him. The clearest piece of prophecy to this effect is in Daniel 9:26, where the prophet Daniel has received a message from the angel Gabriel, saying that seventy sevens have been decreed before the end will come. The "sevens" are read as speaking of periods of seven years, so that we calculate 490 years (70 x 7). Some English translations say "weeks", like the one that I am using.

The prophecy goes on to say that there is first seven sevens, and then there is 62 sevens, and then this is where verse 26 begins (notice that there is remaining one more period of seven to complete the count of seventy):

Then after the 62 weeks, Mashiach will be cut off and have nothing. Then the people of a prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. But his end will come like a flood. Until the end of the war that is decreed there will be destruction.

...

Now look closely at what this is saying. Daniel believes that the angel Gabriel is telling him that Jesus would be cut off within the last seven years of the prophecy, and will "have nothing". There is a people of a coming prince who would destroy the temple and the city - that happened within the generation after Jesus' crucifixion. He also says that there will be destruction until the end of the war, and what we see in the world today is destruction like never before.. so we can see that this is talking about a war that has been going on until the present day.

Let me explain that piece of it for you, because this is where the Jews are going to be able to see Messiah as they expect to.

Messiah is the one who is meant to save the world from the impending destruction. This is speaking of the great and terrifying day of Adonai, as Daniel 9:24 tells us. The nature of that day is very scary and bleak, as you might see in the likes of Zephaniah 1:17-18. Remember that God took a similar action upon the world in the days of Noah.. well, now if they cannot be saved through Messiah's work, if there is no righteous one to survive as Noah was, then this is to be a final event. Mankind's total failure.

This is why Jesus has said the likes of John 10:10 "the thief comes only to steal, kill and destroy. I have come that they may have life, and life abundantly". He also said "no greater love has this, that one should lay down his life for his friends".

...

So now it should be clear what the situation is in terms of heaven's contention with mankind, and the two views of justice that operate within the confines of Adonai's law and judgement (Jeremiah 9:23-24).

You might be wondering why the war has been going on for 2,000 years when the prophecy had stated that it was to be finished within 490 years, and the reason is this:

The religious leaders were of sin to put Jesus to death, so they violated God's law. This means that the side of the war that seeks destruction has opposed God's righteous judgement and has incited the human to condemn not only an innocent man, but the very one who was anointed for the purpose of bringing in everlasting righteousness, as decreed in Daniel 9:24.

Read this:

We all like sheep have gone astray.
Each of us turned to his own way.
So Adonai has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed and He was afflicted
yet He did not open His mouth.

Like a lamb led to the slaughter,
like a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so He did not open His mouth.


This prophecy is from the book of Isaiah, that Jesus knew well, and it is foretelling of what His actions would be in the moment of judgement, when He was brought to Pilate for execution:

When the ruling priests and officers saw Him, they yelled out, “Execute Him! Execute Him!” Pilate said to them, “Take Him yourselves and execute Him! For I don’t find a case against Him.”

The Judean leaders answered him, “We have a law, and according to the Torah He must die, because He claimed to be Ben-Elohim!”

When Pilate heard this word, he became even more fearful. He went into the Praetorium again and said to Yeshua, “Where are You from?” But Yeshua gave him no answer. So Pilate said to Him, “You aren’t speaking to me? Don’t You know that I have the authority to release You, and I have the authority to crucify You?”

Yeshua answered, “You would have no authority over Me if it hadn’t been given to you from above. For this reason, the one who handed Me over to you has the greater sin.”


.. This is a record of the last moments of Jesus' life, where the Jewish rulers brought Him to Pilate, demanding that He be crucified.

When Jesus was in the garden praying, He said "Father, I know you can do all things, but nevertheless, if it is not possible for this cup to pass away unless I drink of it, may your will be done". In this way, we see that Jesus was entitled to insist on heaven's power to guard His Messianic campaign through the remaining seven years (Matthew 26:51-54, John 14:30), but He yielded to God's greater wisdom, and in so doing, offered up His life as a sacrifice. As a result of His having been wrongly condemned in God's view, He has been raised to the place of highest honour - sitting at God's right hand in heaven, while the war goes on (Hebrews 10:11-13).

...

Now here is the mystery of Christianity, that shows how the Messiah that the Jews are waiting for, will come not as Jesus but in the name of Jesus:

There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved!
Acts 4:12

Therefore, my loved ones, just as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence—work out your salvation with fear and trembling. For the One working in you is God—both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
Philippians 2:12-13

But when the fullness of time came, God sent out His Son, born of a woman and born under law—to free those under law, so we might receive adoption as sons. Now because you are sons, God sent the Ruach of His Son into our hearts, who cries out, “Abba! Father!” So you are no longer a slave but a son—and if a son, also an heir through God.
Galatians 4:4-7

You were buried along with Him in baptism, through which you also were raised with Him by trusting in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. When you were dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive together with Him when He pardoned us all our transgressions. He wiped out the handwritten record of debts with the decrees against us, which was hostile to us. He took it away by nailing it to the cross. After disarming the principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in the cross.
Colossians 2:12-15

The doctrine of Christianity teaches that when we become aware of the nature of the war, and that by living life the way we want to, we are being sinners, then we need to repent and be baptised into the covenant with God in the name of Jesus. In this way, we receive a new life by having renounced the former self who had been taken captive by the thief (John 10:10) through our disobedience in sin, and in our new life of repentance, it is not a demon spirit that lives in us, but The Holy Spirit who lives in us and who speaks through us. In this way, we are described as being individual parts of the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:27-31 - 1 Corinthians 13:1-13, 1 John 4:16).

.. so it is, that Jesus' work continues through us in the present day.

The reason the Jews do not receive Him already, although The Holy Spirit is with us, is because of their long-standing culture that has been opposed to the antichrist's teaching of Christianity, that is the devil's attempt to steal the kingdom from Jesus by corrupting it with false teachings. Many choose to follow the false teachings and to stick to them while opposing truth and righteousness, and are therefore caught up in sin again, departing from The Holy Spirit.

St. Peter wrote about false teachers coming among the Christians (2 Peter 2:1-2), and that was almost 2,000 years ago! .. likewise, St. John said in 1 John 4 that the false teachers were of the spirit of the antichrist.

Where Christians are particularly failing Jews, is that they are teaching that Christianity is a different religion from Judaism, whereas you can see by the facts that Jesus had an irreconcilable problem with the Jewish leaders about what Judaism should be, that resulted in bloodshed. So with Jesus as our enduring High Priest (Hebrews 7:23-25), it is more accurate to say that Christianity is Judaism under Jesus' direction (but I do not say that the antichrist teachings reflect this).

So, seeing it is the same devil that turned the religious leaders against Jesus as it is that has inspired the false teachers to corrupt Christian teaching, then just as the Jews rejected Jesus and the prophets because they were arrogant and unspiritual (John 5:44), so the antichrists reject us when we bring a message that is too hard for them - even if we are bringing them truth in holy spirit (John 6:66). The consequence of this, is that they become more darkened in their thinking and alienated from God, as a result of the principle in Proverbs 17:13. This has been a daily part of the war for the last 2,000 years, so this explains why there is a lot of hypocrisy and general unholiness to be seen when you start looking around at people who promote themselves as Christian.

This has been going on for a very long time, and of course, when a person chooses to reject the truth, they choose untruth instead. Therefore, the Christians who are not worshipping in spirit and in truth, are teaching untruth toward the Jews when they speak in the name of Jesus - and it is a lot to overcome when they are already ignorant of (also culturally opposed to) the real nature of Jesus Christ that is expressed through the Christian writings (John 8:32).
 
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dfw69

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It will be one of the false Messiahs Jesus warned about.

Yes perhaps a son of David anointed as king or perhaps a newly anointed high priest for the future built temple services...
 
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Christians believe that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah, and that the Old Testament prophecy foretold that they would reject Him. The clearest piece of prophecy to this effect is in Daniel 9:26, where the prophet Daniel has received a message from the angel Gabriel, saying that seventy sevens have been decreed before the end will come. The "sevens" are read as speaking of periods of seven years, so that we calculate 490 years (70 x 7). Some English translations say "weeks", like the one that I am using.

The prophecy goes on to say that there is first seven sevens, and then there is 62 sevens, and then this is where verse 26 begins (notice that there is remaining one more period of seven to complete the count of seventy):

Then after the 62 weeks, Mashiach will be cut off and have nothing. Then the people of a prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. But his end will come like a flood. Until the end of the war that is decreed there will be destruction.

...

Now look closely at what this is saying. Daniel believes that the angel Gabriel is telling him that Jesus would be cut off within the last seven years of the prophecy, and will "have nothing". There is a people of a coming prince who would destroy the temple and the city - that happened within the generation after Jesus' crucifixion. He also says that there will be destruction until the end of the war, and what we see in the world today is destruction like never before.. so we can see that this is talking about a war that has been going on until the present day.

Let me explain that piece of it for you, because this is where the Jews are going to be able to see Messiah as they expect to.

Messiah is the one who is meant to save the world from the impending destruction. This is speaking of the great and terrifying day of Adonai, as Daniel 9:24 tells us. The nature of that day is very scary and bleak, as you might see in the likes of Zephaniah 1:17-18. Remember that God took a similar action upon the world in the days of Noah.. well, now if they cannot be saved through Messiah's work, if there is no righteous one to survive as Noah was, then this is to be a final event. Mankind's total failure.

This is why Jesus has said the likes of John 10:10 "the thief comes only to steal, kill and destroy. I have come that they may have life, and life abundantly". He also said "no greater love has this, that one should lay down his life for his friends".

...

So now it should be clear what the situation is in terms of heaven's contention with mankind, and the two views of justice that operate within the confines of Adonai's law and judgement (Jeremiah 9:23-24).

You might be wondering why the war has been going on for 2,000 years when the prophecy had stated that it was to be finished within 490 years, and the reason is this:

The religious leaders were of sin to put Jesus to death, so they violated God's law. This means that the side of the war that seeks destruction has opposed God's righteous judgement and has incited the human to condemn not only an innocent man, but the very one who was anointed for the purpose of bringing in everlasting righteousness, as decreed in Daniel 9:24.

Read this:

We all like sheep have gone astray.
Each of us turned to his own way.
So Adonai has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed and He was afflicted
yet He did not open His mouth.

Like a lamb led to the slaughter,
like a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so He did not open His mouth.


This prophecy is from the book of Isaiah, that Jesus knew well, and it is foretelling of what His actions would be in the moment of judgement, when He was brought to Pilate for execution:

When the ruling priests and officers saw Him, they yelled out, “Execute Him! Execute Him!” Pilate said to them, “Take Him yourselves and execute Him! For I don’t find a case against Him.”

The Judean leaders answered him, “We have a law, and according to the Torah He must die, because He claimed to be Ben-Elohim!”

When Pilate heard this word, he became even more fearful. He went into the Praetorium again and said to Yeshua, “Where are You from?” But Yeshua gave him no answer. So Pilate said to Him, “You aren’t speaking to me? Don’t You know that I have the authority to release You, and I have the authority to crucify You?”

Yeshua answered, “You would have no authority over Me if it hadn’t been given to you from above. For this reason, the one who handed Me over to you has the greater sin.”


.. This is a record of the last moments of Jesus' life, where the Jewish rulers brought Him to Pilate, demanding that He be crucified.

When Jesus was in the garden praying, He said "Father, I know you can do all things, but nevertheless, if it is not possible for this cup to pass away unless I drink of it, may your will be done". In this way, we see that Jesus was entitled to insist on heaven's power to guard His Messianic campaign through the remaining seven years (Matthew 26:51-54, John 14:30), but He yielded to God's greater wisdom, and in so doing, offered up His life as a sacrifice. As a result of His having been wrongly condemned in God's view, He has been raised to the place of highest honour - sitting at God's right hand in heaven, while the war goes on (Hebrews 10:11-13).

...

Now here is the mystery of Christianity, that shows how the Messiah that the Jews are waiting for, will come not as Jesus but in the name of Jesus:

There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved!
Acts 4:12

Therefore, my loved ones, just as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence—work out your salvation with fear and trembling. For the One working in you is God—both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
Philippians 2:12-13

But when the fullness of time came, God sent out His Son, born of a woman and born under law—to free those under law, so we might receive adoption as sons. Now because you are sons, God sent the Ruach of His Son into our hearts, who cries out, “Abba! Father!” So you are no longer a slave but a son—and if a son, also an heir through God.
Galatians 4:4-7

You were buried along with Him in baptism, through which you also were raised with Him by trusting in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. When you were dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive together with Him when He pardoned us all our transgressions. He wiped out the handwritten record of debts with the decrees against us, which was hostile to us. He took it away by nailing it to the cross. After disarming the principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in the cross.
Colossians 2:12-15

The doctrine of Christianity teaches that when we become aware of the nature of the war, and that by living life the way we want to, we are being sinners, then we need to repent and be baptised into the covenant with God in the name of Jesus. In this way, we receive a new life by having renounced the former self who had been taken captive by the thief (John 10:10) through our disobedience in sin, and in our new life of repentance, it is not a demon spirit that lives in us, but The Holy Spirit who lives in us and who speaks through us. In this way, we are described as being individual parts of the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:27-31 - 1 Corinthians 13:1-13, 1 John 4:16).

.. so it is, that Jesus' work continues through us in the present day.

The reason the Jews do not receive Him already, although The Holy Spirit is with us, is because of their long-standing culture that has been opposed to the antichrist's teaching of Christianity, that is the devil's attempt to steal the kingdom from Jesus by corrupting it with false teachings. Many choose to follow the false teachings and to stick to them while opposing truth and righteousness, and are therefore caught up in sin again, departing from The Holy Spirit and opposing Him in a demon spirit.

St. Peter wrote about false teachers coming among the Christians (2 Peter 2:1-2), and that was almost 2,000 years ago! .. likewise, St. John said in 1 John 4 that the false teachers were of the spirit of the antichrist.

Where Christians are particularly failing Jews, is that they are teaching that Christianity is a different religion from Judaism, whereas you can see by the facts that Jesus had an irreconcilable problem with the Jewish leaders about what Judaism should be, that resulted in bloodshed. So with Jesus as our enduring High Priest (Hebrews 7:23-25), it is more accurate to say that Christianity is Judaism under Jesus' direction (but I do not say that the antichrist teachings reflect this).

So, seeing it is the same devil that turned the religious leaders against Jesus as it is that has inspired the false teachers to corrupt Christian teaching, then just as the Jews rejected Jesus and the prophets because they were arrogant and unspiritual (John 5:44), so the antichrists reject us when we bring a message that is too hard for them - even if we are bringing them truth in holy spirit (John 6:66). The consequence of this, is that they become more darkened in their thinking and alienated from God, as a result of the principle in Proverbs 17:13. This has been a daily part of the war for the last 2,000 years, so this explains why there is a lot of hypocrisy and general unholiness to be seen when you start looking around at people who promote themselves as Christian.

This has been going on for a very long time, and of course, when a person chooses to reject the truth, they choose untruth instead. Therefore, the Christians who are not worshipping in spirit and in truth, are teaching untruth toward the Jews when they speak in the name of Jesus - and it is a lot to overcome when they are already ignorant of (also culturally opposed to) the real nature of Jesus Christ that is expressed through the Christian writings (John 8:32).

Walls of words usually go unread.
 
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DennisTate

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Jesus is the Messiah. As in, the Messiah. There is no other.

I am convinced that Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus is Messiah the Passover Lamb but
Isaiah 45 indicates a modern Political Cyrus who will succeed in getting the Jerusalem Third Temple and / or the Ezekiel 40 - 48 temple built........
I have read predictions that this particular Cyrus type will be a Christian and that makes sense.

Post #1 here has an article on a Christian Political Cyrus:

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...assive-holy-spirit-tsunami-is-coming.7681942/
 
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Robban

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Something that may be a cooler, in case things start to get hot.

A statement that appears in the early editions of Rambam which the censors did not manage to get their hands on.

"The words of Yeshua of Nasareth and of that Ishmalite who rose after him,
will only serve to pave the way for the coming of the King Mashiach

and for the improvement of the entire world (motivating the nations) to serve
God together as is written. Zephaniah 3:9.



Gen 1:2b

......and the spirit of God hovered over the waters....

This is the spirit of Moshiach--Midrash
 
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danny ski

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Sometimes I do, sometimes I use all caps, "TORAH".



He is alive and only the weak human body died, not his soul/spirit plus he resurrected into a glorified body.



All requirements were met by Jesus.
Look. The title of this thread is :"What do Christians think of the Jewish messiah?" Yet, almost nobody is talking about it. The subject seems to be the Christian Messiah. Two different people. Jesus is not the Jewish messiah. He never was. He never influenced the events on the ground nor was his recognized as any kind of authority- religious or otherwise. He was executed by the Romans and died without bringing in the Messianic Age. And, before starting to protest, consider that even Christianity acknowledges it with the concept of the second coming.
 
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DennisTate

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Look. The title of this thread is :"What do Christians think of the Jewish messiah?" Yet, almost nobody is talking about it. The subject seems to be the Christian Messiah. Two different people. Jesus is not the Jewish messiah. He never was. He never influenced the events on the ground nor was his recognized as any kind of authority- religious or otherwise. He was executed by the Romans and died without bringing in the Messianic Age. And, before starting to protest, consider that even Christianity acknowledges it with the concept of the second coming.


Good point......
here is something that I wrote a couple of years ago:

Is King David raised up for the Jewish people decades before Jesus returns?

Is King David raised up for the Jewish people a significant amount of time previous to when the feet of Messiah stand on the Mt. of Olives in fulfillment of Zechariah chapter 14?

It is pretty obvious that Jesus/Yahushua expects us to believe in the specific fulfillment of the words of the prophets.

"Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:" (Luke 24:25)

"But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them." (Jeremiah 30:9)

It is relevant that Jesus/Yahushua clearly identified John the Baptist as a modern Elijah for his time period. Has King David already somehow back in our time period....or will he certainly be here somehow in the very near future????

"And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not,....
Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist." (Matthew 17:10-13)

Isaiah speaks about a King Cyrus type of person who was instrumental in assisting the Jewish people to rebuild the second temple to which Jesus/Yahushua came. King Cyrus was a gentile or possibly a member of the lost tribes of Israel, and did not actually know the God of Abraham very well at all.

"Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call [thee] by thy name, [am] the God of Israel.
For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else, [there is] no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:" (Isaiah 45:1-5)

Could the raised up King David = the human Moshiach ben Ephrayim or Moshiach ben David?

Does the raised up King David get the Jerusalem Third Temple or the Ezekiel Temple complex built for the Jewish people?
 
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Jesus is not the Jewish messiah. He never was..


That's the problem. He is and was the Jewish Messiah...many Jews realized this but the rest didn't because they had the wrong ideas about the Messiah.
 
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That's the problem. He is and was the Jewish Messiah...many Jews realized this but the rest didn't because they had the wrong ideas about the Messiah.
If they denied him before, they can deny again. They will not accept Jesus because that's not whom they are expecting. Its surely the anti Christ, the false Messiah
 
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If they denied him before, they can deny again. They will not accept Jesus because that's not whom they are expecting. Its surely the anti Christ, the false Messiah

Yet, with God all things are possible...I pray at least a remnant are saved, more is even better.
 
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If they denied him before, they can deny again. They will not accept Jesus because that's not whom they are expecting. Its surely the anti Christ, the false Messiah

We will all have to die first, even if but for a moment.
 
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I am convinced that Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus is Messiah the Passover Lamb but
Isaiah 45 indicates a modern Political Cyrus who will succeed in getting the Jerusalem Third Temple and / or the Ezekiel 40 - 48 temple built........
I have read predictions that this particular Cyrus type will be a Christian and that makes sense.

Post #1 here has an article on a Christian Political Cyrus:

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...assive-holy-spirit-tsunami-is-coming.7681942/

The Cyrus mentioned in Isaiah 45 is the historical Cyrus king of Persia. He's quite dead, been dead for a long time now.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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