What Do Bible Translators Do...

[leecappella]

Does anyone know what a bible translator does when he or she comes across a word or words in hebrew, greek, aramaic, etc. that they have no english equivalent for? I ask because if there is no english equivalent when translating then the word or words that the translator does decide to use could change the intended meaning of the text or texts. Anyone have any input on this or has anyone ever asked this question? Thanks.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Does anyone know what a bible translator does when he or she comes across a word or words in hebrew, greek, aramaic, etc. that they have no english equivalent for? I ask because if there is no english equivalent when translating then the word or words that the translator does decide to use could change the intended meaning of the text or texts. Anyone have any input on this or has anyone ever asked this question? Thanks.

They guess.

Well, actually they go out to Homer and Plato and other classic Greek writings. Which is a problem because the NT is written in Koine Greek... kind of like the language of the common man.

Greek is like English... but it is not. Words are not in the same logical order that we would place them because word order is of less importance than in English. Greek has strange stems, prefixes, suffixes, declensions, cases, genders, etc etc all of which determine what words go with what other words and in what way the words are to be used. Also, Greek is heavy into context. A word could have many meanings depending of the context of the sentence. This is especially true in the area of nouns and how they are used in the sentence.

But as to a word that has no known English equivalent... do not let them kid you. A lot of this is just educated guessing!

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Does anyone know what a bible translator does when he or she comes across a word or words in hebrew, greek, aramaic, etc. that they have no english equivalent for? I ask because if there is no english equivalent when translating then the word or words that the translator does decide to use could change the intended meaning of the text or texts. Anyone have any input on this or has anyone ever asked this question? Thanks.

BTW my favorite example is the word Theou.
It is the Greek word for God and it is in the genetive. Genitive means what it sounds like: "genesis" or origin. This most often means possession and so a noun (like theos) with the ending ou will be translated "of God" or "God's".

Hundreds of examples such as:
"the kingdom of God(theou)"
"the son of God(theou)"

Sometimes attributes of God that are manifest in and through man are also rendered this way:

"...the peace of God(theou)..." (ειρηνη1515 του3588 θεου231)

meaning that we have the peace of God.

and also:

"... the love of God(theou)..." (αγαπη26 του3588 θεου2316)

meaning that the love of God is in us working in and through us.
No body doubts that these attributes of God manifest in and through us.

BUT...
What about this one:

"... the faith of God..." (πιστιν4102 θεου2316)

This phrase is translated in literal versions as the faith of God and even translated as "...the God Kind of faith..." by one respected Greek scholar. Yet many translations, for purely theological reasons, choose to translate this phrase "...faith in God..."

The verse of course is Mark 11:22

Incorrect:
(KJV) And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
Correct:
(LITV) And answering, Jesus said to them, Have faith of God.
(YLT) And Jesus answering saith to them, `Have faith of God;

There is no linguistic reason for the insertion of the preposition "in" (Greek "εν") into this verse. It is a pure fabrication... and violates the genetive meaning of the word "theou".

That is an example of how translators are in fact subject to tradition and religious pressure.

 

[Philip]

Incorrect:
[/font][/color](KJV) And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
Correct:
(LITV) And answering, Jesus said to them, Have faith of God.
(YLT) And Jesus answering saith to them, `Have faith of God;

There is no linguistic reason for the insertion of the preposition "in" (Greek "εν") into this verse. It is a pure fabrication... and violates the genetive meaning of the word "theou".

That is an example of how translators are in fact subject to tradition and religious pressure.

Very interesting. Thank you.

 

[artybloke]

I sometimes wonder what Bible we'd get if we gave it to a panel of Atheist translators...

... it would probably still be biased, in a different way, but it would certainly be interesting...

 

[filosofer]

Incorrect:
(KJV) And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
Correct:
(LITV) And answering, Jesus said to them, Have faith of God.
(YLT) And Jesus answering saith to them, `Have faith of God;

There is no linguistic reason for the insertion of the preposition "in" (Greek "eν") into this verse. It is a pure fabrication... and violates the genetive meaning of the word "theou".

Were that it is so easy to categorize. The genitive case of the noun follows several different preopositions; however, the genitive case of the noun has at least nine different contextual meanings (without any prepositions in the mix). Thus, it is simplistic at best to claim that "in faith" is wrong because there is no preposition EN.

This points out the difference between knowing words in a language and knowing the language. Most often translators do not immediately resort to Homeric Greek or classical Greek with help for a rare word- yes, grammarians do, and sometimes lexical editors do, but not normally translators. FWIW, there are very few words in the NT that are that rare ("exercise authority" in 1 Tim. 2:11 is one case, although there are three other occurrences in Greek literature between 300 BC to AD 600).


For the OT the problem is exacerbated because they literature is not nearly as extensive. However, even then, it is not a case of every verse or every chapter having "unknown words". Also, the cognate languages (Akkadian, etc.) provide additional insight into Hebrew words.

The translators I have known over the past 25 years have been extremely gifted in knowing the languages and extremely humble in recognizing the need for care and precision.

BTW, if atheists wanted to translate the Bible accurately they would not do much differently than what the Bible translators have done.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Were that it is so easy to categorize. The genitive case of the noun follows several different preopositions; however, the genitive case of the noun has at least nine different contextual meanings (without any prepositions in the mix). Thus, it is simplistic at best to claim that "in faith" is wrong because there is no preposition EN..

I agree 100 percent. And as you (and anyone else who knows even a little about Greek Grammar) likely know the actual rendering is always determined by context, since there are really no clues in the word itself that help us to determine which of the 9 classes (or more/or combination of classes!) the word should be rendered. As it is pointed out in the Appendix of the Companion Bible:

"These several usages may be conveniently grouped in the following nine classes, it being borne in mind that sometimes a Genitive may belong to more than one class; and also, that a study of the context will prove the surest way of determining to which class a particular Genitive belongs, where, at first sight, it seems difficult to classify..."

So the classification is almost always it the eyes of the beholder, because, after all, context is determined by understanding and understanding is a function of the reader, not the text. Why, one would ask, would someone choose to make this "objective genitive" opposed to the more common "possessive genitive?"

As I mentioned, it has to be because the reader sees (or wants to see) it in that context. IMHO, which is as good as anyone's, is that the context of the passage and sentence usage fully supports the more common "of God" rendering.

If someone does not want God to have faith (which would be a no-no in some circles) or if someone did not want us to exercise the same kind of faith that Jesus did when He cursed the fig tree and caused it to dry up from the roots, then I suppose they would want to remove the "of" and insert the "in". They would have a theological rather than a contextual reason for making this verse "objective genitive." But the context supports the "have the faith of God" translation simply because that is exactly what Jesus did when He cursed the fig tree, and it is exactly what He is telling us to do in the following verse:

Mar 11:23
23 for verily I say to you, that whoever may say to this mount, Be taken up, and be cast into the sea, and may not doubt in his heart, but may believe that the things that he saith do come to pass, it shall be to him whatever he may say.


Hence I would support the genitive possessive rendering rather than the objective, simply because that is what the context requires.

note: In English, the idea of objective genitive can be illustrated with:

"The murder of the man", or "the man's murder"

In this example, the man is the object of the action. It is "his murder" in a strict possessive meaning. In Mark 11:22, those who insert the preposition "in" into the sentence are seeking to make God the object of the faith, hence "have faith in God" or even better "have faith toward God". Nobody is suggesting that we not have faith in God. That is a given. But in this particular instance, the translation best supported is "have the faith of God".

And is so translated in at least two literal and numerous common versions.

 

[thereselittleflower]

What do translators do?

It diepends on whether they want to make a more literal word-for-word translation or a more paraphrased thought-for-thought translation . .

The words they choose are based on how they approach their translation . .


Peace in Him!

 

[Caissie]

Sometimes they keep the word untranslated, for instance: Matthew 11:3, the KJV does translate "hadies" (hades) as hell, while the NKJV keeps it as hades.

Sometimes they sorta guess. When the KJV came across an animal that they were not sure what it was...(probably an extint animal). They looked at other translations at that time...(Spanish and Latin). The Spanish and Latin versions both translated that word "reem" as an animal with one horn. And that is why the word "unicorn" (one-horn) is in the KJV. They did not believe it to be the same "unicorn" as we think of today.

 

[Crazy Liz]

note: In English, the idea of objective genitive can be illustrated with:

"The murder of the man", or "the man's murder"

In this example, the man is the object of the action. It is "his murder" in a strict possessive meaning.

In English, when you use the phrase "his murder," does the pronoun refer to the murderer or the victim?

Let's substitute proper nouns for the pronoun:

• "Lee Harvey Oswald's murder"
  
• "President Kennedy's murder"
  
• "Jack Ruby's murder"

Could any of the above phrases refer to the same event?

 

[Jesus My Wisdom]

Does anyone know what a bible translator does when he or she comes across a word or words in hebrew, greek, aramaic, etc. that they have no english equivalent for? I ask because if there is no english equivalent when translating then the word or words that the translator does decide to use could change the intended meaning of the text or texts. Anyone have any input on this or has anyone ever asked this question? Thanks.

This is a very common problem. In fact, most Greek and Hebrew words do not have English equivalents. We often have a word that is very close but rarely do we have one that is exact. So translators try to pick the one that is the closest that also fits what the author is trying to express. This problem happens in varying degrees. Sometimes, no word can be found so a phrase might be necessary.

Few people seem to understand this. Most seem to have the idea that translators just go and find the matching word. That is not how it works.

Others think that whatever word the translators used is therefore what that Hebrew or Greek word actually means. This is another huge mistake.

Jesus My Wisdom