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What do Baptists believe about speaking in tongues?

Discussion in 'Baptists' started by Ave Maria, Nov 1, 2004.

  1. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    Dean,

    Did you notice what you did in your reply to me? I wrote about Lawrence Justice's presuppositions that need to be exposed to a biblical critique. So what did you do?

    • Complained about the Pentecostal Church of God;
    • Complained abut the pastor who says, "Let's pray in tongues";
    • Baptism and speaking in tongues;
    • I jumped all over your article without seeing the big picture.
    • You know what Pentecostalism does.
    • Does everybody in the church receive the same gift?
    • 500 people speaking in tongues and it is wrong.
    • Then I nit pick what you post.
    You have created a red herring logical fallacy. You did not address what I wrote about - the presuppositions of Lawrence Justice. You said not a word about them. We cannot have a reasonable conversation when you use any particular logical fallacy.

    The Pentecostal Church of God is not a known church in my state of Queensland. However, I know of the Church of God in the 7 years I lived in the USA.

    However, I know Pentecostalism through and through. I'm a former Assemblies of God pastor who taught in an Assemblies of God theological college for 5 years. So don't even try to say I don't know of what happens in Pentecostalism. I left that movement when I could no longer support the Acts 2:4 doctrine that tongues is the initial physical evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

    However, in this discussion we are right off topic and we should not be pursuing it. About 15 minutes from where I live there is a Baptist Church that is as Pentecostal as any Assemblies of Church I have ever attended. So here in Queensland, Australia, the gift of tongues is practised in Baptist churches. My son was an MDiv graduate last year from Malyon College (Brisbane), the Baptist theological college, and he told me that in the courses he took, tongues and the other gifts of the Spirit were 'non-issues'. By that he meant that Queensland Baptists, in that training college (the only one in Qld), are open to the full range of the gifts of the Spirit here in Qld.

    May you have a good day in the Lord.

    In Christ, Oz

    P.S. Who is your Geez?



     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2012
  2. P1LGR1M

    P1LGR1M Stranger

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    If I am, I am more than happy to have you correct me, lol.

    So I will pose the same question to you:



    Go back and read the conversation in context, then we will discuss this, and probably, since I have seen no replies to the posts I have done in response to yours, I may take a look at your response to Dean.

    Oh, and I will also ask a few questions quickly: do you agree with his position concerning the Gospel; how do you feel about slaying in the spirit; and lastly, do you always accuse your antagonist of supplying a logical fallacy? lol

    Okay, been a long day, so I will sign off for now. Hope everyone has a blessed day in the Lord tomorrow.

    God bless.
     
  3. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    I'm waiting to hear from you as to which NT Word of God was preached to the people in the immediate decades following Christ's death on the cross.

    Oz
     
  4. P1LGR1M

    P1LGR1M Stranger

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    That is fairly simple: it is as we see on the Day of Pentecost, the disciples expound upon the Old Testament prophecy of Christ and place Christ as the fulfillment . That is the primary obejective.

    Your turn.
     
  5. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    I note that you provided not one example.

    Oz
     
  6. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    Pilgrim,

    Amen, brother! :thumbsup:

    And does this Word of God include the following Scriptures?
    What about, 1 Corinthians 12:4-11?
    Does your Word of God include these verses? 'Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy' (1 Cor 14:1 ESV)? Do your Scriptures also contain this verse? 'Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues' (1 Cor 14:39 NIV).

    How about these verses?
    May all of us be captive to the Scriptures - all of the Scriptures!

    In Christ, Oz
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  7. P1LGR1M

    P1LGR1M Stranger

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    That is because you failed to recognize that what was missed was the context of the conversation: Acts 2 is the eaxample, my friend.

    God bless.
     
  8. P1LGR1M

    P1LGR1M Stranger

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    Now, will you answer my questions?
     
  9. P1LGR1M

    P1LGR1M Stranger

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    You make a great example of the pattern usually followed by those that make claims they cannot support...by trying to set the conditions so that the teaching can seem reasonable.

    If you want to engage in character comparison, just say so: I will admit I am a fallible Christian that sometimes yields to the temptation of returning evil for evil, or, it would probably be better to say sarcasm with facetious humor, childishness with tolerant firmness, and hostility with resolve.

    But if you want to forego deflection and smokescreen and look at doctrine, just let me know. As it stands, it seems you have some catching up to do, mate. But then, that is just my opinion. lol

    God bless.
     
  10. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    I'm capable of reading and I read the context of the conversation relating to Acts 2. However, which Word of God was used by the preachers of the Gospel according to the Book of Acts and in the decades which followed when there was no written NT available?

    You seem to be missing the point of oral tradition and how the NT Gospel was passed on by the preachers. They had no 27 books of the NT to refer to.

    Oz
     
  11. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    :clap:
     
  12. P1LGR1M

    P1LGR1M Stranger

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    So I guess you will not answer my questions, lol. That's okay, we can play it your way.

    First, I would ask you if you are diminishing the books of the New Testament? For one thing, this is the very reason why Paul had to rebuke and correct the Corinthians...because they wanted to do things which were not in accordance to scripture. The audience of Hebrews also are a good example of this.




    <edit>

    The oral tradition of the Apostles would not have been the great mass of demon doctrine we see in the world today. Epistles were written to combat the false doctrine creeping into the Church.

    The Old Testament scriptures were sufficient to expound upon Christ, and when the charismatics rose up in the Church...God gave us scripture to combat their doctrine.

    Have to get going, but look forward to discussing this, and several other things with you.

    God bless.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2012
  13. P1LGR1M

    P1LGR1M Stranger

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    Jumping jacks will not help, lol

    God bless.
     
  14. joseph10

    joseph10 Newbie

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    Were do disagreements of the scriptures come from? Pilgrim indeed made the point. Then why has pride not bowed down. Simple said people filled with great pride will not bow to even the truth of the Lords dear scriptures.
    As a wise man once said pride goes before a great fall. We as a people have fare to much pride. For in wickedness we speak when we should by silence. Yet we speak.
    From the time of the beginning of the post creation of the church until this very day people have been trying to limit the operation of the Holy Spirit and the gifts of God. Yet you can't stop what God has set into motion. Those whom operate in the gift are those whom have yielded to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit operates in them to bring about the will of God. He whom speak in heavenly languages needs no mediation of these prayers the Holy Spirit has perfected them. A different kind of christian whom is praying the exact will of God as lead by the holy Spirit. Those whom prophesy also in like manner do so by the power and the leadership of the Holy Spirit. Notice the point is leadership of the Holy Spirit. Those whom will not fallow the leadership of the Holy Spirit will never be used greatly of God. They are in idolatry actually.
    Unless you lay down you life you can't pick up your life. The main thing is that you have to lay down your own understanding and gain God perspective. The bible declares God will and God plans. It is the written manual of God operational manner and also our instruction manual. It alone is the guide for the modern christian. But i declare that few are wise and few have understandings. You have many pastors but few fathers of the faith. Today we have great perversion in the body of Christ. The likes of which are a abomination unto he Lord of Grace.
    The subject being spoke of here is a example of that problem. If your going to a church that is teaching the gifts have passed away. Quite because your are being taught be a devil and not God. The gifts and the offices of God are eternal. They will not pass away until the Lords return for the bride. I am a baptist yet i have walked out my faith as apostle, as a prophet, as a minister and many other roles. And indeed Christ is still at work in me. I have stood in heaven and in hell. And this one thing i know above all foolishness. Christ above all else.
    We seek God for the glorification of Christ. That he be glorified in us. Today most pastors have missed the mark and do not know the God of the bible. They know about him. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are the missing part of the body if Christ today. As a example of the gifts allow me to speak of a dream i had a few week ago. I saw a smoking lantern like Paul Reiver would have used to warn of the British attacking. It was black and smoke was coming out of the bottom. That was before the storm Sandy destroyed the east cost. God does nothing before speaking to the prophets. IN my case he speaks via dreams at times. The Holy Spirit gives you foreknowledge of things to come. He also warns you and protects you. he is your guide. The gifts are for your benefit. So in rejecting the Gifts your reject the Gift giver. God.
    In declaring your ideas above his ideas you profuse your idolatry.
     
  15. Brian75

    Brian75 Guest

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    I grew up in a Southern Baptist church and I'm now attending the same church after years of worldly living. I believe in speaking in tongues but I think there is a time and place for it. In a service during a a sermon is not the time...God does not interrupt Himself. I have a close friend and she speaks in what she calls tongues, I don't care or wish to hear it but the ones who have heard it say it sounds Asian and she believes God will use her sometime to reach someone in their own language. To me this is the correct way tongues are used. I also believe she will know what she is saying when that time comes, she will not need an interrupter. That's how I see God doing it, not limiting Himself to doing the gift of toungues but needing mans help to interrupt it. Just my $.02
     
  16. Criada

    Criada Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Mod Hat On
    [​IMG]

    This thread has had a small up.
    Please don't make it personal, folks.

    Mod Hat Off
     
  17. now faith

    now faith Veteran Supporter

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    Pilgrim,what is your opinion, on the Roman influence on Christianity?
    With Pagan worship being mingled among Christian in 3rd century AD and the inclusion of the Apocrypha in the Vulgate.
    Do you think it would have been plausible that some of the New Testament was distorted ?
    If so do you think King James was the most accurate restoration,after removing the Apocrypha,since it was in his original translation?
    I believe the Apocrypha is easier to discount due to the Hebrew scholars.
    But what about the New Testament written in Greek,who would have been able to notice if the Epistolary had been changed?
    This line of question is aimed at the views on Spiritual gifts,and Christian authority.
    Knowing the word was kept from lay people until the Reformation.
     
  18. P1LGR1M

    P1LGR1M Stranger

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    Hello Now Faith and Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours.

    Concerning Roman influence I tend to look at that in terms of what we see today in Modern Christendom, that within the visible "Church" there is much that has to analyzed on a more personal basis, meaning, from fellowship to fellowship and from believer to believer. Because one is a member of a particular faith, fellowship, or, dare I say it, lol an organization, doesn't mean the statement of faith is going to be similar.

    Trustung that God is perfectly capable of doing what He promised, particularly when it comes to building His Church, I think it is safe to say that He is in fact building His Church, but His Church is more like the remnant of Israel (who have not bowed the knee) than mega-fellowships of sincere believers. Each fellowship will vary in practice according to the instruction and self examination of the individual believer, which ultimately, we rely on God to work in our lives as we are conformed to the image of Christ.

    Within the Roman sphere I think we would be in error to write it off completely and not think that the Lord had those that belonged to Him within that group. I think we err to this of many groups, because it is my belief that in every faith there are those that do not know enough to either be saved or damned, and for them, their participation is due to circumstances that have placed them there, such as being born into a faith or group, a proclivity for social interaction, et cetera.

    This is why the command to disciple is foremost. And this is why self-examination must come before instructing others. Paul makes it clear, I think, that a novice in a place of leadership is a grievous error.


    In a nutshell, I think we can see a great many errors, a great many injustices, and a great many unfortunate practices, but...just as today, in every group, seldom do we see the "body" of the Body, but those in places of power, usually. We have to take into account, I believe, that most of us believe that God has directed us to the "right" fellowship, and we have a tendency to believe that because we are blessed above all measure (in other words...we are special, lol) the doctrine of our fellowship cannot be questioned.

    I wish more people did, because it is commanded of each of us to measure what we are taught according to that which God teaches.

    So does it surprise me that the "body of a particular faith or era can participate in activity we would look at and scratch our heads about? Not at all. But do I think that every member of a particular group or faith believes the same way? Not at all. When I first became interested in the study of the Doctrine of the Bible it didn't take long to realize that most of us are independant in our thinking. We can say amen during the message but we do not say "Hey, wait a minute" when the Pastor says something we do not believe. So the picture is, in the average fellowship, the same picture history presents of certain groups, that they were all in accord to everything that took place.

    I don't believe that, myself.
    Again, look at the conditions we have today: we have Churches that include the Apocrypha, and those that vehemently reject it, yet, I think if we went through all of these fellowshiops, and had a surprise inspection, and asked, "How much time have you spent in God's word," I think we would find in most fellowships about a 5% margin of believers that even opened their bibles outside of the services.

    And of those, I think we would find an even smaller percentage that did more than read a set amount that they feel qualifies them for having been obedient to God in seeking Him, and wanting to know Him better.

    This is one reason I love the forums: many here are part of that 5% (and this percentage is more for illustrative purposes) and are those that do have a desire to know God better. Many of them do not study because they have to, but because they have been blessed by God with with a desire to understand the word of God.

    So I don't view Roman influence as having confounded the work of Christ, and think that there were those, just like today, who were saved in that era. How often do we read int he paper or see on the news the many saints that perform, out of love for God, those duties assigned to them by God? Like visiting the sick, imprisoned, and widows? Not often? Never.

    Those that prepare food for the bereaved. Those who have prayer ministries who are in constant prayer for others. So I think that when it comes to Roman influence, we should compare that with conditions today, and see that they probably are not all that different.



    Not really, no.

    We do see the fingerprint of man on scripture, but that is to be expected, since we understand God used men in their own experience and character to write the books of the bible. As these were passed down, we could point at scribal errors, marginal notes, et cetera and like some, make a conclusion that "scripture has been distorted by man."

    That would be a great error for a number of reasons. First, we understand that the manuscript evidence we have has been declared by a great many scholars as having been recovered to a point where some place the recovery at 99.99%.

    Secondly, of what we have, there is nothing that changes a single point of primary doctrine leaving us to wonder what God's salvific will for man is. The trouble comes when what we have is then interpreted, and then is mingled with tradition, which will always perpetuate error.

    If we take out the "questionable" portions of scripture (and we could single out a number of them just by looking at some of the marginal notes of newer translations and comparing them to the KJV) we would still have the will of God for man which is sufficient for a man to become aware of sin, righteousness, and judgment. The KJVonly controversy helped me tremendously because when I looked at the controversy, the conclusion I came to and recommend for all is, "We do not stop at a translation, but look at the original, of which, we can be assured that man has not confounded God's effort to reveal Himself to man."

    So no I do not look at the New Testament as having been distorted by man...it is his interpretation of the New Testament that comes into question. And if more believers "searched the scripture to see if these be true," lol, there would be far less confusion and antagonism among those God has called. Still going to be trouble among men, no matter what, but, some of the issues that for some people are just vastly important could be reconciled just by getting to know the person first, instead of assuming to know what they believe.



    I love the KJV. It is the translation I prefer, and I use it for witnessing, if I teach, and if I preach. But I do not tell people this is the ONLY translation, and all others are corrupt. It just isn't true. Some people are going to do better with a newer translation, because it will be easier to understand.

    And that is the goal, to understand what God has said, right?

    But, we go back to, "We don't stop at a translation." THis is not to say that in order to understand the word of God, one must exegete every single passage and translate for themselves the original language, because it is my belief that God gave His word for the express intent that man know His will for them, so I do not think that He has made it necessary to be a great scholar in order to know His will.

    The scholar is going to be more aware of some of the finer points, but, the end result for the scholar and the end result of the sincere student is going to be the same, I believe. The scholar is going to know that man has sin. The layman is going to know that man has sin. See what I mean? Most can open God's word and read it, and come to the same conclusion they would come to after years of scholarly training. The scholar might be able to say, "Betcha didn't know..." lol, but give me a sincere spirit filled Christian layman that understand the basics over the puffed up scholar any day, lol, and if he has been gifted for evangelistic purpose, he is going to be used of God just as much, if not more, than the scholar.

    Concerning the Apocrypha in the KJV originally, many scholars recognize a historical value to parts of the Apocrypha, but do not recognize it a inspired scripture. I do not, personally, and while I have put a great deal of effort in study of the Apocrypha, just like I haven't vigorously studied the book of Mormon, I look at it as "I have enough to consider already." And when I see certain traditions and beliefs which are contrary to what I feel is sound doctrine, it is all the more reason for me to concentrate on the 66 Books which both sides consider inspired.

    And when we see the theology and philosophies of the "more enlightened," we cannot fail to see how recognition of some of these books has led to doctrine that is obviously contrary to the whole counsel of God as found in those 66 books. I do not try to argue this point with those that accept spurious books, but rather try to focus on the books and doctrine that we both would acknowledge as having come from God.


    Continued...
     
  19. P1LGR1M

    P1LGR1M Stranger

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    For me it is more the doctrine of those that view it as inspired, as well as tradition which we see to have caused more harm than anything. But not all of it can be blamed on the Apocrypha. Years ago I was amazed when a teacher I held in high regard mentione the books of Maccabees concerning certain historical events. So I read them, and it was actually very interesting. It's been a while but there is a description, if I remember correctly, of a man being pan-fried.

    We can usually tell the value a man places on inspired scripture and what he embraces as inspired in his doctrine. But I think that most in the Body of Christ rely on "weekly feedings," as well as rely on teaching from others. That is not necessarily wrong for many, because we all start somewhere, but, my usual recommendation is that we need to get into the books of the bible rather than books about the bible. The serious student will get to the point where he can himself begin to exegete scripture for himself. One thing, though, I see as true in my own life, is the need for holiness in the man who would presume to expound scripture. Scripture first deals with us before we are put in a place to minister to others, and we have to be ever vigilant of pride and complacency. The more I am in the word, the more my own toes are stepped on, lol, so I do not rely on my Pastor to be the one to always do this (though he does it too, lol).



    There is always a remnant of true believers that have for millennia defended the once delivered faith. One of the favorite arguments of those that actively seek to undermine God's word is, "That doctrine was not believed until..."

    The Lord told the people to listen to the reading of the Law by those that He more often than not rebuked for their erroneous doctrine and practice, but...we would be in error to think that all of them were corrupt. There was a NIcodemus here and there. The hearing of God's word by the people, I liken to the reading of a newer translation by the sincere believer today. He reads it and takes it for granted that "God said that...okay."

    It is when man complicates the issues that he has trouble. God said "I am the Savior, and beside me there is no other." Okay, how hard is that. Well it isn't until man says, "Sure, God is the Savior, but you have to also..."

    "Stop..." the layman says, "God didn;t say that."

    "Yes He did, see, it says right here..."

    So the simple understanding of very basic issues is confused and then we have...religion. Most of us recognize religion as man trying to get to man, and Christianity as God coming to man.

    No issue of preservation of the word of God significantly changes what God has said. If you look at the arguments presented by those that seek to undermine God's word you will see an absolute reliance on everything...except what God's word says. That is always going to be true. If you look at the word of God with them usually there is a misunderstanding of the word due to contextual error. I find this true, always, when speaking to atheists. It becomes a little more difficult when they claim to be Christians, and it is not our place to judge their salvation, but it is, if we seek to defend the once delivered truth, our duty to confront doctrinal errors. Many of the Epistles were written for the express purpose of...confronting erroneous doctrine and practice.

    But the problem today is that unlike years ago if a man wanted to teach a doctrine, or believed he had received "enlightenment," he had to go to the word of God to verify that belief, and the beauty of that was that God's word will transform man in his thinking and practice. It is an inevitable result. Though some will be driven further into rebellion because that is the nature of his heart, more, I believe, receive the blessing that God has infused in His word and gives to those who look into it.

    Today, if you have a belief, you simply have to google it, and no matter how ridiculous, no matter how contrary to the rest of scripture it is, you will find some group that will cater to that particular belief. And that is all some people need...verification of what they want to believe rather than diligent pursuit of what the word of God teaches man.

    In a nutshell, we can be sure that God would not give us His word only to let man and Satan and demons...destroy it. It is my belief that many of the doctrines that are debated can be answered by a fuller understanding of God's word as a whole, though, and if we can avoid traditional beliefs we are saved in, or raised in, we will come to an understanding that on all points is in harmony with scripture as a whole.


    Look, I think we can, when we try to defend a doctrine, get into the habit of going to extremes. And this is true in debate especially. If one does not accept this gift or that, they sometimes feel they have to go to the extreme, or they are "not being true" to their belief. This thread has a primary focus the gift of tongues. I see this gift as dealing with languages, and that it is not a gift that we see actively in use today. Is it a matter that would cause me not to fellowship with those that see it as active and have a different view? Yes. Is it a matter where if I am asked, I will state my view? Yes. Is it a matter that would cause me to question their salvation? Not really, because I know charismatics that believe differently than I, but for them...it is not a big deal either, lol.

    But when we see the extreme end, where we can turn on the TV and see false teachers bilking people, and we, and even the world, can look at it and see it as a fraudulent show, that is where I feel the extreme becomes harmful for the cause of Christ.

    But for the majority of "tongue speakers," among them are those I believe are born again Christians, and while I believe they are in error doctrinally, I am not usually going to focus on an issue like that. It is only when they bring it to extreme position and focus that I might get involved. There are much more important issues to focus on, and soteriology is always going to be the first focus. Many of the errors we see in "Modern Christendom" could be corrected if the soteriology was first addressed. Among all of us it is certain there will be errors as we grow. This is true of all, and we have to question our motivation when the desire to see people saved is cast in the background and hatred is more obvious than the love of Christ. Doesn't mean we are not firm in our resolve, and fail to point out error when we see it, but our first goal should be to lead men to the Lord and then to disciple them.

    Unfortunately, when it comes to extreme views, there is tendency to get stuch in a rut, lol. If it more important to me to teach about the Rapture than the Cross, there is something wrong. If it is more important to me to teach about the superiority of my faith than the Superiority of Christ and man's need for salvation, something is wrong. Some of these discussions I find extremely interesting, and it is difficult not to get caught up in them sometime. But there has to be a central focus on Christ always. A Christ and Cross centered effort is always, I believe, going to result in a profitable effort.


    This is true, and while I do not want to get cast into an "extreme position" by saying this, but we do recognize that man was from his creation given a knowledge of God. This knowledge, most of us know, was corrupted by sin. We watch the history of man unflod and it gets worse and worse.

    We do not have a specific record, but we can see that sacrifice for sin was established and prescribed by God, and Cain is the first one to sin by seeking to do what was right in his own eyes. As time progresses, we see the effect of man upon his fellow man, and entire societies fall into sin.

    And all the while are those that have remained constant in obedience to the internal witness of God in man. It is my belief that by the time we get to Abraham, we have a heritage of parents that have taught their children about God, relying on both what God speaks to the heart of man as well as the teachings that have passed down from parent to parent. Certain groups take this to an extreme where tradition becomes so important going back to reconcile the tradition with scripture becomes almost a futile effort for aome.

    Most cultures, for example, have a mother/son tradition that has attached a salvific aspect. Why is that? Because right from the beginning of man's existence in seperation from God man knew that one day there would be One that would defeat sin. So it is natural that as this knowledge was passed down sin and Satan would seek to pervert this. I have talked to Catholics that have what I believe a reasonable view of Mary, attributing only the reverence one would attribute to the woman chosen to be the mother of God manifest in the flesh. But I have also talked to those that see Mary as taking part in salvation, so we see a general truth taken to extremes. Another extreme in that would be despising Mary because of the extreme belief of some, and that too, is in error.

    So during those times when the word of God was withheld from man, we still see that God has preserved that which He revealed to men and has not left man completely devoid of the knowledge one needs in order to be in right relationship with Him.

    We see this even in Gentiles that did not receive the word of God, and Paul makes it clear that some of them were obedient to the internal witness of God.

    Something else that comes to mind is today we have countries that outlaw the word of God, yet, we see that there are those still obedient to defend the once delivered faith. Men and women die daily in other countries around the world for their efforts. It is my belief that there have always been men and women like this throughout the ages, even when the word of God weas restricted by those in power.

    Today, more men and women have less excuse. The Gospel has gone around the world and though there are many that have not heard, there are many who have. It is my hope to learn to be a part of the tradition of ministering the Gospel to those that have not heard, and those that have heard but believe some rather odd things, lol. Delusions of grandeur, perhaps, but God has been teaching me in a number of areas that I can compare with even a few years ago, so I am hopeful that God will use me.

    Any time people interact, there are going to be problems, of this we can be sure. But we can also be sure that Christ is building His Church, and has been for nearly two thousand years. There will always, even in times of great suppression and tribulation, be a remnant that seek to be obedient to God to defend the once delivered faith. I hope to be a part of that. We will not know the role we play in redemptive history until we stand before Christ, but, it seems to me that the word of God makes it very clear what we should be doing, and what we shouldn't. The "shouldn't" part, lol, takes years of instruction from God, and we recognize the progressive sancitification process we all go through, but, it is just my opinion that our efforts to know God better through the word which He has given us is an easy way to further such efforts.

    And it is also my belief that the faith which Christ taught is the same faith that many around the world belong to. They differ on a few beliefs, lol, but Christ is able to do what He promised to do, which is to create a People of God who will enjoy an eternal relationship with Him.

    Sorry for the length, Now Faith, guess I am just in a talkative mood this morning. But now, it is time to help in Thanksgiving preparation, so, hope you have a blessed Thanksgiving.

    God bless.
     
  20. now faith

    now faith Veteran Supporter

    +1,306
    Word of Faith
    Married
    Very well balanced teaching my friend.
    Thank you for the conformation on the Greek translations and their accuracy.
    I know that the dead sea scrolls concerning the book of Isaiah was in line with King James.
    I believe Gods word the Bible is absolute truth.
    One reason other than spiritual revelations,in which some would consider mans embellishment is the longevity of the Bible.
    My personal thought is Roman influences convoluted Gods word at Nicaea under Constantine.
    His Paganism along with his Christian convictions,injected man made interpreting of the Bible.
    We cannot discount the dark ages,and the attempted removal of truth of the word and replaced with Papal law.
    I attribute the power of God and the Bible being the living word of God to our knowledge today.
    Heaven and earth may pass but Gods word will stand forever.
    But I also attribute the divide in the body of Christ by religion,to the dark ages and the freedom from,this great oppression.
    After the reformation religious freedom allowed for a vast differing of opinions,and those opinions,became doctrine.
    Your point is valid in that people only open the Bible on Sundays,in their religion of choice.
    Ironically this sets each one back to a time when only a Papal dignitary,could provide interpreting of the Bible.
    The gift of tongues is the subject that is always a wedge in the Body,it seems that those who profess tongues are labeled as concocting false belief. On the other side Pentecostal beliefs are that conservatives quench the Holy Spirit.
    I personally think both views are a Satanic divide that has existed for 2000 years in one form or another.
    Thank you,for enduring my long post as well. GOD BLESS
     
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