What did Paul preach to the Corinthians? (2)

[shturt678s]

Numbers 21:6-9
Then the Lord sent venomous snakes among them; they bit the people and many Israelites died. The people came to Moses and said, “We sinned when we spoke against the Lord and against you. Pray that the Lord will take the snakes away from us.” So Moses prayed for the people. The Lord said to Moses, “Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.” So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived.​

All Israelites without exception could take up the offer of life when bitten by a snake. All they had to do was believe and look at the bronze snake on the pole.

John 3:14-16
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.” For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.​

Since the crucifixion is exactly comparable to the snake on the pole, then salvation through Jesus Christ is certainly offered to all men. I don't know how John could have put it any clearer. St. Paul agreed and stated that he and the other Apostles preached this.

Thank you for 'seeing' how the salvation is offered part, eg, what Paul offered to the Corinthians loosely speaking (ICor.15:22), yet 'blind' to how Judas appropriated, ie, only the tip of the iceberg. However, overall, thread job well done.

Insignificant Jack (IICor.4:7),

 

[Clare73]

"Discuss" is the operative word.

Your point is?

Your argument against discrepancy in Luke's account is based on Luke's view of atonement,

yet you have shown nothing from Scripture that indicates any discussion by Luke of atonement.

Jesus gave his body and blood for Judas.

The accounts of Matthew, Mark and John do not support your assertion.

45It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

It is unconscionable to think that this is not possible for some men.

Human thinking.

It is not possible for anyone apart from God's empowerment. (Jn 6:44)

As long as someone else is a reprobate that is okay for you isn't it?

It's not about me. . .it's about the word of God.

Please show how your irrelevant remark relates to:

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me enables him."(Jn 6:44)

"All that the Father gives me will come to me." (Jn 6:37)

"And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me,
but raise them up at the last day." (Jn 6:39)

 

[Clare73]

So there is no listening and learning unless the Father first gives the Holy Spirit
(1Co 2:14).

Faulty conclusion.

Only when words cease to have meaning.

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me enables him." (Jn 6:44)

"All that the Father gives me will come to me." (Jn 6:37)

"I shall lose none of all that he has given me." (Jn 6:39)

"I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours." (Jn 17:9)

Creation is the "classroom" of God. Creation is HOW God teaches to mankind that He exists. (Ro 1:19-20) Some listen and learn and some day dream and some hate the lesson. I haven't mishandled Scripture; but your view sure does.

More confounding of Scripture.

The existence of God is not what Paul is referring to in 1Co 2:14.

The context for v.14 is found in several verses before that in ch 2.

v.6 Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away

This verse shows that Paul's message was for mature believers, not unbelievers.

And?

Marvelous grasp of the obvious. . .1Co, as well as all the epistles, were written to believers, not to unbelievers.

You have no idea what the context means. . .and wingin' it is just not sufficient.

Being "taught" by God (Jn 6:45) and "learning" are two different things.
All Israel was "taught" by God, but all Israel did not "learn," or they would not have rejected their Messiah.
Jn 6:45 doesn't alter Jn 6:44, 37, 39, 17:2, 6, 9, 24.

Nor does Ro 1:19-20 refer to Jn 6:45.

You have presented nothing which disagrees with Jn 6:44, 37, 39, 17:2, 6, 9, 24 above,
which is not surprising because Scripture does not contradict itself.

The texts of Jn 6:44, 37, 39, 17:2, 6, 9, 24k speak for themselves.
Jesus did not die for all mankind.
He died for those whom the Father gave him.

Likewise, your understanding of 1Co 15:11 is taken out of context regarding the problem Paul was addressing.

 

[FreeGrace2]

More confounding of Scripture.

Opinion.

The existence of God is not what Paul is referring to in 1Co 2:14.

Nor did I suggest such.

And?

Marvelous grasp of the obvious. . .1Co, as well as all the epistles, were written to believers, not to unbelievers.

Actually, seems you've missed my point, as well as Paul's. I didn't make a point that Paul was writing to believers. Of course he was. Please review my point specifically referring to 1 Cor 2:10-14.

You have no idea what the context means. . .and wingin' it is just not sufficient.

Actually, the one who has "no idea" isn't me. You have missed my points completely.

Being "taught" by God (Jn 6:45) and "learning" are two different things.

Which happens to be my point exactly! It is only those who are listening are able to learn. Those who aren't paying attention cannot learn.

Verses about those who don't pay attention: Jer 7:24, 26, 11:8, 17:23, 18:18, 34:14, 44:5, Zec 1:4, 7:11.

All Israel was "taught" by God, but all Israel did not "learn," or they would not have rejected their Messiah.

No argument from me here! In fact, that is my point.

Jn 6:45 doesn't alter Jn 6:44, 37, 39.

Of course not. In fact, it explains 44, 37 and 39.

Nor does Ro 1:19-20 refer to Jn 6:45.

Opinion.

You have presented nothing which disagrees with Jn 6:44, 37, 39, above,
which is not surprising because Scripture does not contradict itself.

Thank you for noting the obvious.

The texts of Jn 6:44, 37, 39 speak for themselves.

Yes, they do. And v.45 provides proper context for understanding them.

Jesus did not die for all mankind.
He died for those whom the Father gave him.

Is there a verse that actually says so?

Likewise, your understanding of 1Co 15:11 is taken out of context regarding the problem Paul was addressing.

Since v.11 is IN the context, your point falls flat. v.11 notes that what Paul preached, they believed. And v.3 is what Paul had preached to them.

 

[Clare73]

No argument from me here! In fact, that is my point.

The Scriptures presented speak for themselves.

Christ's death was beneficial for the sake of the world,
but salvific only for those whom the Father had given him; i.e., the elect (Ro 8:30; Jn 6:44, 37, 39, 17:2, 6, 9, 24),
as demonstrated [post=64769209]here[/post].

Just as he did "not pray for the world, but for those whom the Father had given" him (Jn 17:9),
so he did not die to save the world, but to save those whom the Father had given him; i.e., the elect (Ro 8:30).

It couldn't be any clearer for those who have eyes that see (Mk 8:18).

So I'm sure you'll understand if I take a pass on the opportunity to get you up to speed.

Over and out.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Ro 8:30; Jn 6:44, 37, 39, 17:2, 6, 9, 24 speak for themselves.

No doubt they do. Just like Heb 2:9, 1 Tim 2:4, and 1 Jn 2:2 also speak for themselves.

I'm sure you'll understand if I take a pass on the opportunity to get you up to speed.

Over and out.

Your condescending post is noted. But not appreciated.

 

[shturt678s]

Opinion.


Nor did I suggest such.


Actually, seems you've missed my point, as well as Paul's. I didn't make a point that Paul was writing to believers. Of course he was. Please review my point specifically referring to 1 Cor 2:10-14.


Actually, the one who has "no idea" isn't me. You have missed my points completely.


Which happens to be my point exactly! It is only those who are listening are able to learn. Those who aren't paying attention cannot learn.

Verses about those who don't pay attention: Jer 7:24, 26, 11:8, 17:23, 18:18, 34:14, 44:5, Zec 1:4, 7:11.


No argument from me here! In fact, that is my point.


Of course not. In fact, it explains 44, 37 and 39.


Opinion.


Thank you for noting the obvious.


Yes, they do. And v.45 provides proper context for understanding them.


Is there a verse that actually says so?


Since v.11 is IN the context, your point falls flat. v.11 notes that what Paul preached, they believed. And v.3 is what Paul had preached to them.

Just a head's up Jn.6:45 = / = Rom.1:19-20, ie, Rom.1:20 more of a natural theology - scrutinize again please.

Jack's opinion only

 

[Clare73]

Just a head's up Jn.6:45 = / = Rom.1:19-20, ie, Rom.1:20 more of a natural theology - scrutinize again please.

Jack's opinion only

Yep. . .and that's what I said.

Thanks.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yep. . .and that's what I said.

Thanks.

Yes, you and Jack share the same opinion.

Did you read the verses I provided about the issue of not paying attention, which relates to Jn 6:45?

It is only those who are listening are able to learn. Those who aren't paying attention cannot learn.

Verses about those who don't pay attention: Jer 7:24, 26, 11:8, 17:23, 18:18, 34:14, 44:5, Zec 1:4, 7:11.

 

[shturt678s]

Yes, you and Jack share the same opinion.

Did you read the verses I provided about the issue of not paying attention, which relates to Jn 6:45?

It is only those who are listening are able to learn. Those who aren't paying attention cannot learn.

Verses about those who don't pay attention: Jer 7:24, 26, 11:8, 17:23, 18:18, 34:14, 44:5, Zec 1:4, 7:11.

Sister Clare and I agree to disagree regarding most, ie, agree more with you!

Just ol' agreeable Jack

btw when Clare is posting I really pay attention, ie, just a head's up

 

[FreeGrace2]

Sister Clare and I agree to disagree regarding most, ie, agree more with you!

Just ol' agreeable Jack

btw when Clare is posting I really pay attention, ie, just a head's up

Yes, it's always best to pay attention before responding to anyone's post.

But remember, those who keep their "heads up" are likely to get it blown off!

I prefer to keep my head down.

And pay attention, of course.

btw, it's always easier to find your P38 when your head is down.

 

[shturt678s]

Yes, it's always best to pay attention before responding to anyone's post.

But remember, those who keep their "heads up" are likely to get it blown off!

I prefer to keep my head down.

And pay attention, of course.

btw, it's always easier to find your P38 when your head is down.

Forum has been one 'make my day' Clint Eastwoot type, ie, another poster made my day, and you made an old man's eve,

Thank you brother,

Old Jack, ie, owe you folks

 

[Clare73]

Sister Clare and I agree to disagree regarding most, ie, agree more with you!

Just ol' agreeable Jack

btw when Clare is posting I really pay attention, ie, just a head's up

Thanks, m' friend, you've been a pleasure.

 

[shturt678s]

Thanks, m' friend, you've been a pleasure.

Didn't want you mad at me of all Christians thus can close my eyes for the night in peace - may our Lord be with us.

Old Jack hanging it up the the day,

Thank you to Clare