What did Paul preach to the Corinthians? (2)

[janxharris]

This thread was split automatically after 1000 replies and this thread has been automatically created.
The old thread automatically closed is here: "What did Paul preach to the Corinthians?"

 

[janxharris]

Since the thread has been split, I would like to take this opportunity to update the OP:

1 Corinthians 15:11
Whether, then, it is I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.

To maintain consistency, Calvinists must assume that that which Paul and the other apostles preached was:
A) only intended for believers;
B) only intended for the elect;
C) a modification of the gospel outlined in vv. 3b-4.

A) cannot be true because Paul never guarded against it - on the contrary, it was his ambition:

Romans 15:20-21
It has always been my ambition to preach the gospel where Christ was not known, so that I would not be building on someone else’s foundation. Rather, as it is written: “Those who were not told about him will see, and those who have not heard will understand.”

In Acts there are many examples of the apostles preaching to unbelievers. Here is just one:

Acts 8:9-13
Now for some time a man named Simon had practiced sorcery in the city and amazed all the people of Samaria. He boasted that he was someone great, and all the people, both high and low, gave him their attention and exclaimed, “This man is rightly called the Great Power of God.” They followed him because he had amazed them for a long time with his sorcery. But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.

Paul allows for the possibility that the gospel he specifies in vv. 3b-4 might be heard by unbelievers in the Corinthian church:

1 Corinthians 15:1-2
Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Paul also says in v.11, that 'this is what you believed.'

B) cannot be true because we do not know who the elect are.

Finally, C) cannot be true because Paul never even hints at such a modification.

Whilst Calvinism demands that the gospel outlined by Paul in vv. 3b-4 is not to be preached to unbelievers, Paul himself had no such concerns.

 

[guuila]

So based on the other thread, you're saying Christ is the only way unless they haven't heard about Christ? In that case there's another way?

 

[janxharris]

So based on the other thread, you're saying Christ is the only way unless they haven't heard about Christ? In that case there's another way?

No.

So you do assert that the man who died a nano-second before Christ came is damned then? Yes or no? You quoted Jude 2 before, but now you are saying something different.

 

[guuila]

No.

So you do assert that the man who died a nano-second before Christ came is damned then? Yes or no? You quoted Jude 2 before, but now you are saying something different.

So then you must agree those who never hear of Christ perish. Or be inconsistent. Which is it?

 

[janxharris]

So based on the other thread, you're saying Christ is the only way unless they haven't heard about Christ? In that case there's another way?

Did Abel know about Jesus?

 

[janxharris]

So then you must agree those who never hear of Christ perish. Or be inconsistent. Which is it?

I asked you a question:

So you do assert that the man who died a nano-second before Christ came is damned then? Yes or no? You quoted Jude 2 before, but now you are saying something different.

 

[janxharris]

So then you must agree those who never hear of Christ perish. Or be inconsistent. Which is it?

Did Abel hear of Christ?

Are you going to fully engage with the revised OP?

 

[Hammster]

What exactly does this mean? Can you please clarify?

Which bit of, 'This is what we preach, and this is what you believed', don't you understand?

Do you agree that Paul preached? Do you agree that Paul does not distinguish a gospel for the believer and a gospel for the unbeliever? When Paul used the word 'this' in v. 11, he does not guard against us taking the exact antecedent that he has stated in vv. 3-4. That is a fact that you are unable to refute.

Paul shows zero concern for that which Calvinists guard against.

When I attend Sunday service, out pastors preach the gospel. Every week. And every week I believe them.

And who was this letter written to? Believers. Did Paul say "that what I preached before you were saved", or any language like that?

No.

 

[Hammster]

And another overlooked post:

I said it is possible.

Here we go again. You want to criticize us for our view on limited atonement, and how unspeakable it is that a Christian would believe such a thing. Then you float a trial balloon about the unforgivable sin, and that's why there are people in hell, which if true means that you hold to limited atonement.

But you're not sure.

How about being sure of what you being sure of what you before you criticize us about what we believe?

 

[Hammster]

Since the thread has been split, I would like to take this opportunity to update the OP:

1 Corinthians 15:11
Whether, then, it is I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.

To maintain consistency, Calvinists must assume that that which Paul and the other apostles preached was:
A) only intended for believers;
B) only intended for the elect;
C) a modification of the gospel outlined in vv. 3b-4.

A) cannot be true because Paul never guarded against it - on the contrary, it was his ambition:

Romans 15:20-21
It has always been my ambition to preach the gospel where Christ was not known, so that I would not be building on someone else’s foundation. Rather, as it is written: “Those who were not told about him will see, and those who have not heard will understand.”

In Acts there are many examples of the apostles preaching to unbelievers. Here is just one:

Acts 8:9-13
Now for some time a man named Simon had practiced sorcery in the city and amazed all the people of Samaria. He boasted that he was someone great, and all the people, both high and low, gave him their attention and exclaimed, “This man is rightly called the Great Power of God.” They followed him because he had amazed them for a long time with his sorcery. But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.

Paul allows for the possibility that the gospel he specifies in vv. 3b-4 might be heard by unbelievers in the Corinthian church:

1 Corinthians 15:1-2
Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Paul also says in v.11, that 'this is what you believed.'

B) cannot be true because we do not know who the elect are.

Finally, C) cannot be true because Paul never even hints at such a modification.

Whilst Calvinism demands that the gospel outlined by Paul in vv. 3b-4 is not to be preached to unbelievers, Paul himself had no such concerns.

D) Paul preached the gospel every week to the Corinthians, and they believed him.

 

[guuila]

Did Abel know about Jesus?

Not sure. Did the Amorite high priest?

 

[guuila]

I asked you a question:

No.

 

[guuila]

Are you going to fully engage with the revised OP?

Not until you explain the Scripture you quoted. Why can't you defend your own argument?

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

Janxharris,

You said you were going to respond to this post but never did. Please respond as it is quite relevant to the OP.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7787859-42/#post64571471

 

[Jack Terrence]

A) cannot be true because Paul never guarded against it - on the contrary, it was his ambition:

Romans 15:20-21
It has always been my ambition to preach the gospel where Christ was not known, so that I would not be building on someone else’s foundation. Rather, as it is written: “Those who were not told about him will see, and those who have not heard will understand.”

It has already been explained to you that it was given Paul to know that the Gentiles would listen and be saved (Acts 28:28). The scripture Paul quotes verifies this.

In Acts there are many examples of the apostles preaching to unbelievers. Here is just one:

Acts 8:9-13
Now for some time a man named Simon had practiced sorcery in the city and amazed all the people of Samaria. He boasted that he was someone great, and all the people, both high and low, gave him their attention and exclaimed, “This man is rightly called the Great Power of God.” They followed him because he had amazed them for a long time with his sorcery. But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.

Already explained. (post #947 http://www.christianforums.com/t7787859-95/#post64577933)

Paul allows for the possibility that the gospel he specifies in vv. 3b-4 might be heard by unbelievers in the Corinthian church:

1 Corinthians 15:1-2
Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Paul also says in v.11, that 'this is what you believed.'

But they had also believed a word prior to that. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation "from faith to faith." It is NOT from unbelief to faith. Therefore, they must have believed a word directly from God or from the scriptures prior to their believing in Christ specifically. Men are brought "from faith to faith."

B) cannot be true because we do not know who the elect are.

We are not the apostles. Paul was given to know who would listen and believe (Acts 28:28). Peter was chosen to bring the word to the Gentiles and, "every man who had heard the word believed" (Acts 10:44).

Whilst Calvinism demands that the gospel outlined by Paul in vv. 3b-4 is not to be preached to unbelievers, Paul himself had no such concerns.

Calvinism demands no such thing. The apostles preached to those whom they knew had already believed a word whether it was directly from God or from the scriptures.

We do not have apostolic knowledge. Our strategy to evangelistic preaching does not parallel with that of the apostles.

 

[Jack Terrence]

Janx

You have suggested that the Corinthians were unbelievers prior to their coming to faith in Christ. You erroneously conclude that Paul's statement, 'this is what you believed' in 1 Cor. 15:11 implies that they were unbelievers.

First, Paul's statement does NOT suggest that the Corinthians were unbelievers in the sense that they never believed a word of the scripture prior to hearing about Christ. He simply said that they had come to believe a specific word saying, 'this is what you believed.'

Second, Paul said that the Gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes. The word 'believe' does NOT imply that men move from being unbelievers to being believers. It means that they move from the belief of a former word they received to believing the Gospel specifically. Paul was clear that the Gospel moves men "from faith to faith."

I have offered you Cornelius an an example but you have ignored it. I now offer you Abraham as my chief example.

When God came to Abraham and promised him that his descendants would be as the stars of heaven it says, "He believed in the LORD and it was accounted unto him for righteousness" (Genesis 15:6).

You may not infer from this that Abraham was an unbeliever prior to this. In chapter 12 we are told that the Lord came to Abraham and commanded him to leave his country and migrate to a new land where God would bless him. It says that Abraham did as the Lord commanded him.

Then we are told that Melchizedek met Abraham and blessed him and said to him, "Blessed be Abram of God most high," and that Abram gave a tithe of all that he owned.

Please note that these two incidents occurred BEFORE Abraham believed the Lord specifically about giving him descendants and blessing them. So, Abraham was NOT an unbeliever prior to his believing unto salvation. He did NOT move from the state of unbelief to the state of faith. Abraham moved "from faith to faith."

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness [salvation] of God is revealed FROM faith TO faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

 

[Clare73]

Since the thread has been split,

What did Paul preach to the Corinthians?

That Jesus was the Messiah (Ac 18:5).

By this gospel you (believers) are saved (1Co 15:3).

For what I received I passed on to you as of the greatest importance: that Christ died for our (Corinthian believers) sins according to the Scriptures (1Co 15:3).

I would like to take this opportunity to update the OP:

1 Corinthians 15:11
Whether, then, it is I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.

To maintain consistency, Calvinists must assume that that which Paul and the other apostles preached was:
A) only intended for believers;
B) only intended for the elect;
C) a modification of the gospel outlined in vv. 3b-4.

A) cannot be true because Paul never guarded against it

Context. . .context. . .context. . .

No one has to assume anything.

The letter in discussion was to the Corinthian church (professing Christians).

 

[janxharris]

When I attend Sunday service, out pastors preach the gospel. Every week. And every week I believe them.

And who was this letter written to? Believers. Did Paul say "that what I preached before you were saved", or any language like that?

No.

Yes - language like this:

vv. 1-3a
Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance

v. 11c
this is what you believed.

Paul NEVER says that the gospel is altered for an unbelieving audience. He also said:

Romans 15:20-21
It has always been my ambition to preach the gospel where Christ was not known, so that I would not be building on someone else’s foundation. Rather, as it is written: “Those who were not told about him will see, and those who have not heard will understand.”

In Acts there are many examples of the apostles preaching to unbelievers. Here is just one:

Acts 8:9-13
Now for some time a man named Simon had practiced sorcery in the city and amazed all the people of Samaria. He boasted that he was someone great, and all the people, both high and low, gave him their attention and exclaimed, “This man is rightly called the Great Power of God.” They followed him because he had amazed them for a long time with his sorcery. But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.

 

[janxharris]

And another overlooked post:

Here we go again. You want to criticize us for our view on limited atonement, and how unspeakable it is that a Christian would believe such a thing. Then you float a trial balloon about the unforgivable sin, and that's why there are people in hell, which if true means that you hold to limited atonement.

But you're not sure.

How about being sure of what you being sure of what you before you criticize us about what we believe?

Well, it is certain that Christ died for all men - for how else could he have preached the good news with sincerity and integrity?

Matthew:4:17;23
From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.”
Jesus went throughout Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom, and healing every disease and sickness among the people.

Matthew 6:33
But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.​

Jesus never preached the good news to men for whom he did not die. Or do you disagree?