What did Paul mean and one other thing I've been thinking about

[FaithWillDo]

Dear eleos1954,

You asked:
What is it that you do not understand about condemnation?

Do you not know that we are all condemned because of our sin?

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

The Elect in this present age are judged in their lifetimes and from that judgment, their spiritual nature is utterly destroyed. They receive the penalty of sin now and when they are resurrected, they are found in the Lamb's Book of Life.

For those not being judged in their lifetimes in this present age, they will be resurrected to judgment to receive their penalty and it is the same penalty the Elect received (death). There are not two penalties for sin.

Also, you do not seem to understand God's judgment. It is not like mankind's judgment.

Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Isa 1:27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.

Christ will judge all mankind because it is necessary for our salvation. His judgment is for the loving purpose of saving us and teaching us His righteousness. His judgment destroys (kills, condemns) our flawed spiritual condition which causes us to be carnally minded. Once His judgment is complete within us, all that is left is the new nature of the New Man in Christ (our new spiritual condition).

You said:
This is true .... however mankind was created in the image of God (originally perfect in every way .... there is a vestige of that image that remains within each of us .... we are without excuse.

Adam and Eve were created in God's image. We have self-consciousness and we had no sin. But God did create us spiritually weak (flawed). We were not "perfect in every way". That is why Adam and Eve quickly became carnally minded BEFORE they sinned (as I have pointed out).

Knowledge of God's existence is present within mankind. That is why there are so many religions in the world. We know we have a creator. For this reason, mankind is without excuse when they deny God's existence. But because we are carnally minded, sinful and spiritually blind, we cannot find the knowledge of God. He is truly hidden from us.

Prov 2:1-5 My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

We can only "receive my words" when Christ heals our spiritual blindness. We then have the ability to search and find the knowledge of God. But even then, it takes a great deal of searching.

You said:
There will indeed be people saved that never "heard the gospel" as the the Holy Spirit has been working in the hearts of mankind since the beginning. We are each responsible for responding to the Holy Spirt (or not) who gently works in the hearts of mankind and always has. Concerning the unborn, babies, children .... they are innocent as they had no ability to acquire knowledge. We are responsible for what we know ... not what we do not know.

Rom 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness. 19For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.

There are NO verses of scripture that teach "the Holy Spirit has been working in the hearts of mankind since the beginning". The Holy Spirit was not given to man until it fell on the apostles in the upper room. Before that time, the Old Testament saints were "moved" by the Spirit so that they could complete the tasks God gave them. But even John the Baptist who was the greatest born of women (born from mankind's created spiritually flawed condition), did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit and was not saved. He will not be in the first resurrection of First Fruits.

Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

So what was John the Baptist lacking? He lacked being judged and converted (born again) and having the ability to know the Truth of God. He wasn't even sure that Jesus was the Christ and had to ask from his prison cell.

If the "greatest born of women" could not know God, then how can anyone else?

You said:
Jesus is the firstfruits

1Cor 1:20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him.

Yes, Jesus is THE Firstfruit. But all who are saved in this age are also considered firstfruits, too.

James 1:18 According to his own will begat he us by the word of truth, that we should be a certain first-fruits of his creatures.

Joe

 

[RDKirk]

How much of a difference does all this make in what a Christian should wake up and do tomorrow?

 

[FaithWillDo]

How much of a difference does all this make in what a Christian should wake up and do tomorrow?

Dear RDKirk,
I assume your question is for me.

If Christ is working within you (preparing your heart) and Christ has made you realize that you may not have all that is necessary for your salvation, then Christ will cause you to pray for His spiritual gifts:

Luke 11:9-13 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Believers who do not have a "love for the truth" and who are already dwelling in "peace and safety", will not pray for the spiritual things they really need. Only Christ's intervention within their lives can cause this needed change to happen. If Christ is opening your "eyes" to what you are lacking, then He will cause you to pray for those things. Pray for the Lord's will in your life and surrender everything to Him just as Christ told this rich young man:

Matt 19:16-22 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Christ's words are "spirit" and have "meanings different from what man's wisdom teaches". Also, spiritual words apply to us spiritually (within us, between our ears). When Christ told the young man to sell all that he had and give it to the poor, Christ was speaking of spiritual things. Those spiritual things are the young man's beliefs and ideas that He holds as truth. We are to sell those beliefs and give to the spiritually poor who still value them. Only then can we receive the true bread from heaven and follow Christ. But the young man, being carnally minded, could not understand Christ's true meaning and thought He was speaking about his material processions which he could not give up.

When you pray for spiritual gifts, you must be willing to give up all that you have so that you can receive the true gifts from heaven.

Learn the truth from this parable:

Matt 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

All the "kingdom of heaven is like" parables are teaching on certain aspects of the pathway to salvation. We all must follow the same pathway so ALL these parables apply to each of us whether we want them to or not.

In this parable, the Woman represents a "called out" believer (one who has only received the Early Rain of the Spirit). When she prepares bread, she takes "3" measures of meal and then "hides" leaven within it which causes the WHOLE loaf to be leavened. The number "3" represents a complete spiritual process which we all must experience. Leaven represents false teachings which originate from Satan. The woman "hides" those teachings in Christ's truth (bread) until the entire truth of Christ is corrupted. When a believer eats this bread, they think they are receiving the truth of Christ because they do not know (it is hidden) that it is fully leavened with the false teachings of Satan. These false beliefs that result are the things that we hold in high value because we think they are Christ's truth. But they are not. We must sell them (forever remove from us) so that we can receive the true bread from Christ.

Only the second appearance (second coming) of Christ to the believer, when Christ brings the Latter Rain of the Spirit to them, will heal their spiritual blindness. It is only with that event that a deceived believer will be able to realize that they had been deceived by Satan and were following Satan's ways instead of the ways of Christ. The Man of Sin is revealed to them and he was the one who had been looking back at them in the mirror. That is quite an earthshaking event. So much so that our paradigm that we hold about Christ is destroyed. After that event, the sun is darkened and the moon is turned to blood - in other words, we no longer receive the false truth of this world but can now receive the true light from heaven (truth).

What I have just described above are the "good gifts" from God. Pray for them and work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Why "fear and trembling"? Because we cannot save ourselves. We must be "chosen" by Christ and wait on the Lord to do His work within us.

Phil 2:12-13 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Because it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

If you can accept what these verses teach, then Christ is already preparing your heart for His return.

Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Joe