What did Jesus mean when He told Peter he was the rock he would build his church upon?

Gregory95

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312AD – Emperor Constantine issue the Edict of Milan to treat Christians with benevolence and start courting Christians: Miltiades, Bishop of Rome, received a “gift” from Constantine - The palace of Empress Fausta - where the Lateran Palace, the future papal seat and residence of the papal administration would be built… The great apostasy of II Tess. 2 starts - many compromise their faith for power and prestige.

380AD – Emperor Theodosius I (a politician) issue the Edict of Thessalonica, declaring Christianity the religion of the Roman Empire and the clay (the believers, Isaiah 64:8) mixes with the Iron (Rome) – Fulfilling the prophecy in Daniel 2:33.

476AD – Western Roman Empire falls – 10 kingdoms raise from that fall – the 10 fingers of clay and Iron in the prophecy of Daniel chapter 2 and the 10 horns in the prophecy of Daniel 7:24, Revelation 13 and 17. The only leadership position left standing from the former empire is the Bishop of Rome, the little horn.

533AD – Justinian (a politician), 500 years after Christ, declares the primacy of the Bishop of Rome – The little horn of Daniel 7:8 gains power.

538AD – After delivering the city of Rome from the Ostrogoth, Justinian decree is enforced in Rome – Antichrist (Papacy) is set in power at Rome. Prophecy in 2 Tess. 2:4 fulfilled. The Ostrogoth were the last one of the three horns (the other two where the Herulli and the Vandals) that the little horn would destroy in its rising according to the prophecy in Daniel 7:8.

1590AD – Pope become the False Prophet of Revelation 13 when they create a false interpretation of Daniel 9:27 (antichrist in a 7 year tribulation in the future) to hide the fact, preached by Protestants, that the history of the papacy fulfills everything that is told in the bible about the antichrist up to that point and therefore the papacy is the Antichrist foretold by Daniel, Paul and John.

1798AD – Napoleon troops arrests the Pope and seize his properties, inflicting the mortal wound to the first Beast (Europe dominated by the Pope) of Rev. chapter 13. The 1st beast of revelation 13 reigns exactly 1260 years (42 prophetic months, 1260 prophetic days, from 538 up to 1798) as the prophecy states in Rev. 13:5.

1929AD – The mortal wound is healed and the Vatican becomes once again a country in which the king is the pope – the beast is healed but this time clothes itself like the Lamb Jesus (piety and humble) but continues to speak like the devil (false/against Christ doctrines). The new beast have two horns (leaders): The white pope and the black Pope – The general Jesuit.

1957AD – With the TREATY OF ROME, the False Prophet of Revelation 13 (the Pope) starts creating the image of the previous beast – The European Union - as foretold in Revelation 13.

Present – Under the unified leadership of the Popery, three powers - the economic powers of Europe (Dragon), the political powers of the United Europe (Beast) and the pope himself (False Prophet) - work to gather the world (Globalization) against God for Armageddon – the Final fight against God is on the works, fulfilling Revelation 16:13.
 
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Albion

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One way to examine the concept of the Papacy is to look at the developments from the post-Apostolic period until recently. But a better one is to look at what the Early Church, the Apostolic Church, thought about the matter.

If we do this, we find that some of the Church Fathers said then that Peter and Paul jointly were the leaders of the church, others said it was James, others said it was all three equally, and there were even some other slants on the subject voiced. None of them anything about Papal Infallibility. I am now just referring to the idea of a titular head or bishop of greatest honor.
 
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Root of Jesse

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In mein kamph I can get the page if you with Hitler says " I am always have been and always will be catholic"
So what? Nancy Pelosi says she's Catholic, too, but she doesn't live the Catholic faith, being very pro-abortion. There are many, many people who claim they're Catholic, and proudly, yet aren't. Regardless of what he states in his document.
The fact is that the country of Germany, including the Catholic Church in Germany, was held hostage. Pope Benedict was forced into the Army in his youth. But the Catholic Church, in the name of Pope, helped Jews by hiding them, and producing false baptismal documents to thwart the Nazis.
 
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Root of Jesse

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Any thoughts on this?

312AD – Emperor Constantine issue the Edict of Milan to treat Christians with benevolence and start courting Christians: Miltiades, Bishop of Rome, received a “gift” from Constantine - The palace of Empress Fausta - where the Lateran Palace, the future papal seat and residence of the papal administration would be built… The great apostasy of II Tess. 2 starts - many compromise their faith for power and prestige.

380AD – Emperor Theodosius I (a politician) issue the Edict of Thessalonica, declaring Christianity the religion of the Roman Empire and the clay (the believers, Isaiah 64:8) mixes with the Iron (Rome) – Fulfilling the prophecy in Daniel 2:33.

476AD – Western Roman Empire falls – 10 kingdoms raise from that fall – the 10 fingers of clay and Iron in the prophecy of Daniel chapter 2 and the 10 horns in the prophecy of Daniel 7:24, Revelation 13 and 17. The only leadership position left standing from the former empire is the Bishop of Rome, the little horn.

533AD – Justinian (a politician), 500 years after Christ, declares the primacy of the Bishop of Rome – The little horn of Daniel 7:8 gains power.

538AD – After delivering the city of Rome from the Ostrogoth, Justinian decree is enforced in Rome – Antichrist (Papacy) is set in power at Rome. Prophecy in 2 Tess. 2:4 fulfilled. The Ostrogoth were the last one of the three horns (the other two where the Herulli and the Vandals) that the little horn would destroy in its rising according to the prophecy in Daniel 7:8.

1590AD – Pope become the False Prophet of Revelation 13 when they create a false interpretation of Daniel 9:27 (antichrist in a 7 year tribulation in the future) to hide the fact, preached by Protestants, that the history of the papacy fulfills everything that is told in the bible about the antichrist up to that point and therefore the papacy is the Antichrist foretold by Daniel, Paul and John.

1798AD – Napoleon troops arrests the Pope and seize his properties, inflicting the mortal wound to the first Beast (Europe dominated by the Pope) of Rev. chapter 13. The 1st beast of revelation 13 reigns exactly 1260 years (42 prophetic months, 1260 prophetic days, from 538 up to 1798) as the prophecy states in Rev. 13:5.

1929AD – The mortal wound is healed and the Vatican becomes once again a country in which the king is the pope – the beast is healed but this time clothes itself like the Lamb Jesus (piety and humble) but continues to speak like the devil (false/against Christ doctrines). The new beast have two horns (leaders): The white pope and the black Pope – The general Jesuit.

1957AD – With the TREATY OF ROME, the False Prophet of Revelation 13 (the Pope) starts creating the image of the previous beast – The European Union - as foretold in Revelation 13.

Present – Under the unified leadership of the Popery, three powers - the economic powers of Europe (Dragon), the political powers of the United Europe (Beast) and the pope himself (False Prophet) - work to gather the world (Globalization) against God for Armageddon – the Final fight against God is on the works, fulfilling Revelation 16:13.
Hindsight and inaccurate. There is no relationship between Revelation and current history. I believe that Revelation was written prior to the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD, and most of the cataclysm relates to that. It may be a foretelling of the future, but your interpretation is...your interpretation. The significance of the Edict of Milan was that Christians would stop being persecuted officially by the Roman empire.

It's very easy to try to mold Scripture, especially Daniel and Revelation, to different events in history. But wrong to do so.
 
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Root of Jesse

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One way to examine the concept of the Papacy is to look at the developments from the post-Apostolic period until recently. But a better one is to look at what the Early Church, the Apostolic Church, thought about the matter.

If we do this, we find that some of the Church Fathers said then that Peter and Paul jointly were the leaders of the church, others said it was James, others said it was all three equally, and there were even some other slants on the subject voiced. None of them anything about Papal Infallibility. I am now just referring to the idea of a titular head or bishop of greatest honor.
In today's Church, the bishop is the head of the local Church. In the ancient Church, there were many leaders, but one head. All the apostles were leaders. Jesus made them so, distinct from the disciples. Paul was an evangelizer, first and foremost. He led the way at spreading the faith. Peter seems to have gone in after the Churches were established. That doesn't mean he didn't have the keys Christ gave him to bind and loose.
 
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Albion

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In today's Church, the bishop is the head of the local Church. In the ancient Church, there were many leaders, but one head.
No, there was not such a 'one head.' That has already been explained, using the facts of history.
 
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Gregory95

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So what? Nancy Pelosi says she's Catholic, too, but she doesn't live the Catholic faith, being very pro-abortion. There are many, many people who claim they're Catholic, and proudly, yet aren't. Regardless of what he states in his document.
The fact is that the country of Germany, including the Catholic Church in Germany, was held hostage. Pope Benedict was forced into the Army in his youth. But the Catholic Church, in the name of Pope, helped Jews by hiding them, and producing false baptismal documents to thwart the Nazis.
When I have time my friend I will post links of catholic bishops in the 70s 80s or 90s sorry I don't remember which decade on video saying no one was gassed by the nazis at the camps which is a odd thing for anti nazi pro jews to say also the catholic church has a LONG history of persecuting jews in europe links to come when I can
 
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Paidiske

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Can we provide information from history or scripture and let it speak for itself? I do not wish to offend anyone, only to spread the truth , if I am ever in error I beg to be corrected.

Yes, but I'd suggest that identifying particular groups as apostate etc. goes beyond that and could be read as flaming.
 
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Erik Nelson

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Any thoughts on this?

312AD – Emperor Constantine issue the Edict of Milan to treat Christians with benevolence and start courting Christians: Miltiades, Bishop of Rome, received a “gift” from Constantine - The palace of Empress Fausta - where the Lateran Palace, the future papal seat and residence of the papal administration would be built… The great apostasy of II Tess. 2 starts - many compromise their faith for power and prestige.

380AD – Emperor Theodosius I (a politician) issue the Edict of Thessalonica, declaring Christianity the religion of the Roman Empire and the clay (the believers, Isaiah 64:8) mixes with the Iron (Rome) – Fulfilling the prophecy in Daniel 2:33.

476AD – Western Roman Empire falls – 10 kingdoms raise from that fall – the 10 fingers of clay and Iron in the prophecy of Daniel chapter 2 and the 10 horns in the prophecy of Daniel 7:24, Revelation 13 and 17. The only leadership position left standing from the former empire is the Bishop of Rome, the little horn.

533AD – Justinian (a politician), 500 years after Christ, declares the primacy of the Bishop of Rome – The little horn of Daniel 7:8 gains power.

538AD – After delivering the city of Rome from the Ostrogoth, Justinian decree is enforced in Rome – Antichrist (Papacy) is set in power at Rome. Prophecy in 2 Tess. 2:4 fulfilled. The Ostrogoth were the last one of the three horns (the other two where the Herulli and the Vandals) that the little horn would destroy in its rising according to the prophecy in Daniel 7:8.

1590AD – Pope become the False Prophet of Revelation 13 when they create a false interpretation of Daniel 9:27 (antichrist in a 7 year tribulation in the future) to hide the fact, preached by Protestants, that the history of the papacy fulfills everything that is told in the bible about the antichrist up to that point and therefore the papacy is the Antichrist foretold by Daniel, Paul and John.

1798AD – Napoleon troops arrests the Pope and seize his properties, inflicting the mortal wound to the first Beast (Europe dominated by the Pope) of Rev. chapter 13. The 1st beast of revelation 13 reigns exactly 1260 years (42 prophetic months, 1260 prophetic days, from 538 up to 1798) as the prophecy states in Rev. 13:5.

1929AD – The mortal wound is healed and the Vatican becomes once again a country in which the king is the pope – the beast is healed but this time clothes itself like the Lamb Jesus (piety and humble) but continues to speak like the devil (false/against Christ doctrines). The new beast have two horns (leaders): The white pope and the black Pope – The general Jesuit.

1957AD – With the TREATY OF ROME, the False Prophet of Revelation 13 (the Pope) starts creating the image of the previous beast – The European Union - as foretold in Revelation 13.

Present – Under the unified leadership of the Popery, three powers - the economic powers of Europe (Dragon), the political powers of the United Europe (Beast) and the pope himself (False Prophet) - work to gather the world (Globalization) against God for Armageddon – the Final fight against God is on the works, fulfilling Revelation 16:13.
The iron mixed with clay in the statue is. Defeated by the rock cut out without human hands.

The Rock is obviously the rock of Peter and all of the Apostles and the Church of Jesus Christ.

That Rock spiritually converted the Pagan Roman Empire in the third century AD under saint Lawrence.

Emperor Constantine and his Christian successors. Entrenched that victory. The Rock of the church had already won by the fourth and fifth centuries AD.

The statue had already been shattered by that time.
 
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Erik Nelson

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In today's Church, the bishop is the head of the local Church. In the ancient Church, there were many leaders, but one head. All the apostles were leaders. Jesus made them so, distinct from the disciples. Paul was an evangelizer, first and foremost. He led the way at spreading the faith. Peter seems to have gone in after the Churches were established. That doesn't mean he didn't have the keys Christ gave him to bind and loose.
Wasn't binding and losing authority given to all of the Apostles? Matthew 18:18.

Peter had the keys to the pearly gates so to speak. He could open them to Gentiles Acts 10 and acts 15. The seemingly special authority of Peter. Appears to be determining who is in who is not included in the church.

How would you answer these questions? for 30 years after the tragic martyrdoms of Saint Peter and Saint Paul. Saint John the beloved disciple. And also pillar of the church. Was alive and well in and around Ephesus? How would he As an original Apostle. Have been subject to the authority. Of Pope Saint Clement in Rome?

And Jesus did tell Peter to feed his sheep 3 times. But that was merely reinstating Peter after having denied Jesus 3 times. So could you interpret that as merely bringing him back to square one bringing him back into the fold. And not as an addition to his Apostolic Authority.

Obviously, in practice. Peter. remained. The spokesman and public face of the church from Pentecost through the first 10 chapters of acts. For the first dozen years after the crucifixion. But how would one answer these questions?
 
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Gregory95

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Yes, but I'd suggest that identifying particular groups as apostate etc. goes beyond that and could be read as flaming.
I am asking for clarification not to be rude or anything as that causes nothing productive if I was to state a fact from history that involves a particular group its okay to name them but to name a group only in negative speculation is a no no correct?
 
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Erik Nelson

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Gregory95

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The iron mixed with clay in the statue is. Defeated by the rock cut out without human hands.

The Rock is obviously the rock of Peter and all of the Apostles and the Church of Jesus Christ.

That Rock spiritually converted the Pagan Roman Empire in the third century AD under saint Lawrence.

Emperor Constantine and his Christian successors. Entrenched that victory. The Rock of the church had already won by the fourth and fifth centuries AD.

The statue had already been shattered by that time.
So the statue in Daniel has already come to pass? Will be back friend.
 
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If we do this, we find that some of the Church Fathers said then that Peter and Paul jointly were the leaders of the church, others said it was James, others said it was all three equally, and there were even some other slants on the subject voiced.
I would love to see substaintiation of these claims. Would I be disappointed if you couldn't supply it? No
 
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Gregory95

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The iron mixed with clay in the statue is. Defeated by the rock cut out without human hands.

The Rock is obviously the rock of Peter and all of the Apostles and the Church of Jesus Christ.

That Rock spiritually converted the Pagan Roman Empire in the third century AD under saint Lawrence.

Emperor Constantine and his Christian successors. Entrenched that victory. The Rock of the church had already won by the fourth and fifth centuries AD.

The statue had already been shattered by that time.
Also this would mean that the church /apostles are the rock? Not Peter alone or Christ alone (the rock is the Lord in all I've seen reading everywhere except that one passage depending on how you believe its worded) Please elaborate.
 
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Erik Nelson

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So the statue in Daniel has already come to pass? Will be back friend.
You mean Gog and Magog.

But at least according to the Bible. Presuming that the Bible is correct. The Statue of Daniel. Never puts itself back together like Humpty Dumpty.

But you are referring to Gog and Magog.

Gog and Magog are depicted as animated by the same ultimate adversarial source. Of. Extraterrestrial influence. But the Bible depicts the. Adverse aerial opposition on Earth. Reconstituted as Gogmagog from that non terrestrial supernatural realm. Not. Autonomously on Earth.

According to the Bible, the statue of Daniel is shattered and never puts itself back together again, like, Humpty Dumpty. But something is reconstituted. By the adversary. From the non terrestrial extraterrestrial supernatural realm. As. Gogmagog.
 
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Erik Nelson

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Also this would mean that the church /apostles are the rock? Not Peter alone or Christ alone (the rock is the Lord in all I've seen reading everywhere except that one passage depending on how you believe its worded) Please elaborate.
I'm just being non controversial. Every Christian believes. That. The True Spiritual Church of Christ is the spiritual temple constructed of spiritual stones. Symbolizing each individual true. Christian.

So one way or another everybody acknowledges that the rock which. Bowls down the statue of Daniel. Represents Jesus Christ and his church on Earth. Everyone even agrees in principle that Saint Peter is a principle. Member of that church.

And everyone's history books already shows that that Church of Christ. bowled down the statue in the third and fourth and fifth centuries AD.

Incidentally. Everyone's history books on their home library shelves also says that the Christian Empire Constantine. Founded in Constantinople was the quote "1000 year Millennium long Christian Empire of Byzantium" end quote. Everyone everywhere has been calling it that for the past 600 years.
 
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Erik Nelson

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So I trust I'm the only one here who was ignorant of Isaiah 22 and had not read Isaiah 22 verse 25.

If Isaiah 22 refers to Saint Peter. Then, perhaps verse 25 refers to his martyrdom in Rome. However, verse 25, says that everything hanging on Eliakim. Who may symbolize Saint Peter and or the popes? Would come crashing down on Eliakim's demise? Insofar, as the Petrines see of Rome survived. His martyrdom. And insofar as the same petrines see has an eternal future. Not one that will end at some point. Then it seems verse 25 does not. Cannot apply to. Saint Peters Legacy.
 
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