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Featured What did Jesus mean when He told Peter he was the rock he would build his church upon?

Discussion in 'Christian History' started by Lybrah, Aug 20, 2018.

  1. Lybrah

    Lybrah Active Member

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    Many claim that because Jesus said that to Peter, that Peter became the first pope and that proves the Roman Catholic Church is the only true Christian church. Thoughts?
     
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  2. dreadnought

    dreadnought Lip service isn't really service. Supporter

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    I think that's a stretch.
     
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  3. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    Peter was in fact the first Bishop of Rome, the Roman Bishops later becoming known as Pope as a nickname.

    But the Roman Church and the Eastern Churches say the same about themselves, all the while all but admitting that the other is also the Church.

    The Christian Church is the only True Church and it is composed of the Roman and Eastern Churches.
     
  4. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    The RCC can not claim Peter exclusively because he established churches long before he ever set foot in Rome. The Church did not begin in Rome, it began in Jerusalem. The rock is the faith Peter showed. Yeshua often nick-named his Apostles because of something they did or an attribute..."sons of thunder".
     
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  5. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    Rome is in schism
     
  6. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Many of the early Church fathers say that it was Peter's CONFESSION of Christ as the Son of God that was the "rock" on which the Church would be built.

    However, Peter did have a position of preeminence among the Apostles. That much is true.

    Peter was the bishop of Antioch, firstly. Yet Antioch did not try to claim headship over the entire Church as a result.

    We see in the Acts of the Apostles the first council at Jerusalem, which was presided over by James (even though Peter was present) ... because James was the bishop of Jerusalem. The local bishop presides.

    Rome became "first among equals" because of the importance of the city of Rome. That didn't make Rome's bishop somehow leader over everyone though. It meant he could preside (call the council to order, etc - someone has to) ... but the Church was counciliar from the time the book of Acts was written. There was never an overall human head of the Church. Christ alone is the head.

    So we (Orthodox) would say that because Rome (a) changed doctrines, and (b) desired to rule in authority when that was never given to a single man - Rome left the Communion of the original Church (which at that time was Antioch, Jersusalem, Rome, Alexandria, and Constantinople).

    Constantinople as the second major city became the new "first among equals" able to preside over gatherings of all in council.

    However Rome has changed the title of the Pope to "first without equal".

    Since that's not how the Apostles did things, not how the early Church worked, I would say this cannot prove Catholicism to be the "only true Christian Church."
     
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  7. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    The Church is in schism. And I wish it would end.
     
  8. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    The EO is not in schism.
     
  9. TuxAme

    TuxAme Quis ut Deus? Supporter

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    This is the same Peter who St. Chrysostom calls the prince of the apostles, and whose successors are all beneficiaries of this same promise of Christ (see his treatise on the priesthood and commentary on Matthew's gospel). Jesus not only made a promise to Peter, but all whom the other apostles- or those who have taken their place- will choose to replace him, just as Judas' place had to be filled. But why are Peter's successors given such a promise as this if not for good reason?
     
  10. TuxAme

    TuxAme Quis ut Deus? Supporter

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    You misunderstand the title of bishop of Rome. It's not that Peter never established any other parishes or established one in Rome. If the Papacy is legitimate, then it has its roots in Israel, not Rome- but Rome is where the Pope has "ruled" from for longer than either of us have been alive. A bishop is a bishop of where he resides, not somewhere he doesn't.
     
  11. Danoh

    Danoh Newbie

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    Must be why Peter is nowhere mentioned in Romans 16.

    Acts 17:11, 12.
     
  12. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    In sum, it means that Christ was counting on Peter at the time when the new church was about to begin reaching out to make converts.

    Specifically, when he said that he would build his church on Peter, the rock, he was referring to the thousands of converts that were to come into the church on Pentecost Sunday after hearing Peter preach. Obviously, the word build means something like this (gaining converts, membership gains, etc) rather than about who was supposed to be the boss of the church.

    Not only did it have nothing to do with any pope idea, but that issue did not arise in the church for about another 300 years. If Christs words as recorded in Matthew meant there should be a pope, it would at least been talked about before that!
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
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  13. Halbhh

    Halbhh The wonder and awe of His Creation! Supporter

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    Hopefully, many Catholics will be looking to Christ, not to bishops, for Truth and guidance and who to follow.
     
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  14. Chinchilla

    Chinchilla Well-Known Member

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    Very simple question to answer based on few verses :

    Matthew 16:18 King James Version (KJV)
    18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
    Numbers 20:11
    “And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also.”

    John 4:14
    14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

    1 Corinthians 10:4
    “And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.”

    Jesus was talking about himself , Peter himself says the rock was cornerstone which Jews rejected here :

    1 Peter 2
    7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

    8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

    9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

    10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.


    Peter was not talking about himself
     
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  15. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    Hi Jesus asked who do you say that I am...Peter you are the Christ the son of the living God. This the rock that the church is built upon; the statement that Peter made. Blessed are you Peter for flesh and blood did not reveal this to you. Reveal what? that Jesus is the Christ the son of the living God. Peter then preaches that Jesus is the chief stone of the corner and is the foundation. In the same chapter the Lord tells Peter to get behind me Satan...
     
  16. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    Yes, the pope was bishop OF ROME...PERIOD. He was NOT bishop of any other patriachates.
     
  17. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The wise man built his house upon a rock foundation, while an ignorant man built his house upon the sand. The rains fell and flood waters rose. The house on the rock stood fast, while the house and the sand collapsed (Matthew 27:24-27).

    Many people tried to take credit for continuing Peter's work. People are not entitled to credit for works they did not do. I looked at a photo of an enormous cathedral in Spain and thought they were more interested in finding money for their building fund than improving the quality of life for their flock.
     
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  18. dreadnought

    dreadnought Lip service isn't really service. Supporter

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    If there is corruption a church, and if someone thinks the Lord is leading them to start a new church, then what are you going to do?
     
  19. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Every bishop who confesses Jesus to be the Christ, the Son of the Living God, is Peter.
     
  20. Jenniferdiana

    Jenniferdiana Well-Known Member Supporter

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    maybe it just means he sees his church as peter and will care for it the way he cared for peter or maybe the church is and will be a remembrance of and for peter....etc why else would he build the church upon the rock and since peter is the rock...it must be for some kind of remembrance of him or something if he will build it there..
     
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