What day is the Sabbath?

thetruthseeker · Dec 25, 2002

Originally posted by geocajun
Hello all, I thought this thread could benefit from a few quotes from the Catechism regarding the Sabbath day.

specifically CCC 2168-2188
christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/comm2.html#THIRD

I strongly recommend reading the entire link I provided above to get the complete context of what I am quoting.

Hi Geocajun,

Where is it found in the Bible that Jesus or any righteous man or woman changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday?

The Bible (God's word) actually forbids the change.

Who do you think knows better, Jesus who wrote the 10 Commandments or misguided men?

Believe me as I am saying this lovingly, the Pope or the "Virgin Mary" do not have a heaven to send you or themselves to. Only Jesus does.

Get your information directly from the source, and pray directly to the source--Jesus Christ.

Your brother in Christ,
TheTruthSeeker

geocajun · Dec 26, 2002

Originally posted by thetruthseeker
Hi Geocajun,

Where is it found in the Bible that Jesus or any righteous man or woman changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday?

No where, the sabbath day was not 'changed' but rather 'fullfilled'. did you read my quotes? "Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath..."
"Worship under the law prepared the way for Christ"
" Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death." These are from CCC 2175

The Bible (God's word) actually forbids the change.

Who do you think knows better, Jesus who wrote the 10 Commandments or misguided men?

Click to expand...

Jesus told us that He fullfilled the law, and Saint Paul made it clear to us in his letter to the galations that we are not justified by the [levitical] law.. This is also why we do not circumsize as a covenant either...

Believe me as I am saying this lovingly, the Pope or the "Virgin Mary" do not have a heaven to send you or themselves to. Only Jesus does.

Click to expand...

Well, Jesus gave Peter the keys to the "Kingdom of Heaven" - but thats another thread

Get your information directly from the source, and pray directly to the source--Jesus Christ.

Click to expand...

isn't that what the people in all the denominations do?

thetruthseeker · Dec 26, 2002

Originally posted by geocajun
No where, the sabbath day was not 'changed' but rather 'fullfilled'. did you read my quotes? "Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath..."
"Worship under the law prepared the way for Christ"
" Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death." These are from CCC 2175

Jesus told us that He fullfilled the law, and Saint Paul made it clear to us in his letter to the galations that we are not justified by the [levitical] law.. This is also why we do not circumsize as a covenant either...

Well, Jesus gave Peter the keys to the "Kingdom of Heaven" - but thats another thread

isn't that what the people in all the denominations do?

Hi Geocajun,

My family were Catholics so what you are saying is not new. It is however, un-biblical and based upon uninspired traditions. I am saying this bluntly but with love. Catholicism is not a purely a Christian religion. It has many elements of paganism in it. I started exposing some of these elements on thread that I started to find it shut down and deleted--quickly. The truth hurts.

You are probably a good Christian. Learn the facts for yourself in honesty. Don't rely on men for your information for the Bible says that all men are liers.

Paul kept the Sabbath. Please take the time to read the thread and you will see that this has all been discussed before.

Did Jesus tell us to keep Sunday in place of the Sabbath?

Your brother in Christ,
TheTruthSeeker

geocajun · Dec 26, 2002

Originally posted by fragmentsofdreams
The Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath - Mark 2:27

God designated the Sabbath so that we would remember to set time asside to focus all of our attention on Him. Without these reminders, it is easy to forget Him in our lives. However, when we choose to give our attention fully to God is irrelevant. Only that we do so is important.

Amen Brother! But the Church does teach that we should take the Lords Day as a day of rest, modeled after the sabbath, but distinguished from it.

thetruthseeker · Dec 26, 2002

Originally posted by geocajun
Amen Brother! But the Church does teach that we should take the Lords Day as a day of rest, modeled after the sabbath, but distinguished from it.

Hi Geocajun,

Please open up the Bible and show me what the "Lord's day" is.

Sunday is never called the "Lord's day" in the entire Bible.

Sunday is actually a fake Sabbath--a counterfeit.

Again, Jesus never endorses Sunday in the entire Bible.

Your brother in Christ,
TheTruthSeeker

geocajun · Dec 26, 2002

Originally posted by thetruthseeker
Hi Geocajun,

My family were Catholics so what you are saying is not new. It is however, un-biblical and based upon uninspired traditions.

Truthseeker, if you ever have a post deleted, you can email me directly. I believe it is smart to 'test everything' and that is why I am Catholic today.
The Catholic Church is very much the Church of the bible - and the bible is the product of the Church.

I am saying this bluntly but with love. Catholicism is not a purely a Christian religion. It has many elements of paganism in it. I started exposing some of these elements on thread that I started to find it shut down and deleted--quickly. The truth hurts.

Click to expand...

truth never hurts
and by the way, all I see so far is conjecture.

You are probably a good Christian. Learn the facts for yourself in honesty. Don't rely on men for your information for the Bible says that all men are liers.

Click to expand...

uh oh.. men gave me the bible.. what does that mean? unless you mean to tell me the bible put itself in my hand that is...

Paul kept the Sabbath.

Click to expand...

Paul was an ex-pharisee, and stated himself in Romans 14:5 that gentiles and Jews saw the days of different importance, but that was OK - because this was a disputable matter (read it in context)

Did Jesus tell us to keep Sunday in place of the Sabbath?

Click to expand...

yup - well it depends on how you appropriate it, I suppose one might say it was the Holy Spirit, but anyway, I gave you the quotes from the Church - the body of Christ.

Pastor N.B. · Dec 26, 2002

Originally posted by geocajun
Hello all, I thought this thread could benefit from a few quotes from the Catechism regarding the Sabbath day.

specifically CCC 2168-2188
christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/comm2.html#THIRD

I strongly recommend reading the entire link I provided above to get the complete context of what I am quoting.

*****
Hi,
You say that you are a Bible Christian. Is there anyone that is converted that uses other material over the Word of God?? (The Pope or the catechism)

I ask this in sincerity. You seem to think that God can change His eternal Word?

I for 'one' have tried to study & correspond only with truth seekers in the past who hold ALL INSPIRATION (2 Tim. 3:16) FIRST PLACE. And if not, then I have 'always' found it a wast of time.

In other words I believe that the whole chapter of Joshua 7 is TODAY'S TRUTH. And in verse 12's last part it is an ETERNALLY STATED FACT that open sin will never be tolerated in [ANY] denomination for long. (most all are long past having Christ as their leader) Try Rev. 3:9 for last day events? That would cover [anyone] convicted of using man made material before the Word of the Master.

I know, this does not set well with todays professed Christians? (if Christ is not there, who is?)
And yet again, in Isaiah 59:1-2 it tells us the same FACTUAL Truth!

In closing, what MAKES a harlot or 'her' daughters as described in the Master's Word?
P/N/B/

Wonder · Dec 26, 2002

God wrote His laws on stone...cold hard stone! But He made a promise that one day He would write them on our hearts.
Jesus had to do away with the Law because people had found a way to use them over people...to control them.. to enslave many. So everyone of them hung on the cross with Him. He did way with the old...BUT God promised to rewrite them on our hearts. He is doing that, that is why so many see that His laws are to be kept..they are keeping them because they found reason to keep them. They see them as His love...for our well being etc. Some have not found those reasons meaning they will not be convinced to keep them and them not being written on their hearts they are not in sin....All that really matters...is if you see His love in your heart...then breaking His laws would be sin only to you.
As far as the Sabbath goes...I keep the Sabbath...Saturday as a reminder that He created this earth for our redemtion...I keep Sunday as a day looking forward to the new age, new creation...As a family day.

geocajun · Dec 26, 2002

Originally posted by Pastor N.B.
*****
Hi,
You say that you are a Bible Christian. Is there anyone that is converted that uses other material over the Word of God?? (The Pope or the catechism)

well the only reason I have for thinking the bible is inspired is the Pope, and the Catechism. Why do you think the bible is inspired? if the Church told me today that they were wrong, and the bible is not inspired, I wouldnt read it.... think about it. The Bible cannot stand on its own.
The Bible is a product of the Church. I hear the entire word of God brother.
I am a bible christian yes, but not a bible worshipper.

I ask this in sincerity. You seem to think that God can change His eternal Word?

Click to expand...

'change' ? I think you are using change to mean 'contradict' which is not posssible, no. Can God prophesy and fullfil his word? of course He can...

I for 'one' have tried to study & correspond only with truth seekers in the past who hold ALL INSPIRATION (2 Tim. 3:16) FIRST PLACE. And if not, then I have 'always' found it a wast of time.

Click to expand...

I hope it isn't because of obstinance on either part. By the way, do you think people aren't truth seekers when you stop agreeing with them?

In other words I believe that the whole chapter of Joshua 7 is TODAY'S TRUTH.

Click to expand...

as opposed to 'yesterdays truth' ? Christ is ALWAYS the truth my brother, this why I follow him.

And in verse 12's last part it is an ETERNALLY STATED FACT that open sin will never be tolerated in [ANY] denomination for long. (most all are long past having Christ as their leader)

Click to expand...

nice blanker statement, lets hope your judgement isn't true.

Try Rev. 3:9 for last day events? That would cover [anyone] convicted of using man made material before the Word of the Master.

Click to expand...

While there is a time for Eschatology, I dont try to predict the endtimes. Christ tells us he will come again as a theif in the night, so I will just love Him and serve Him and not concern myself with speculation on what its gonna sound like or how He will punish those who do not love Him. ..

I know, this does not set well with todays professed Christians? (if Christ is not there, who is?)

Click to expand...

there are lots of spirits out there, and not all of them are Holy. At least we can know the Holy Spirit is in the Catholic Church. I pray this is true for Christian denomoniations as well.

thetruthseeker · Dec 26, 2002

Originally posted by Wonder
God wrote His laws on stone...cold hard stone! But He made a promise that one day He would write them on our hearts.
Jesus had to do away with the Law because people had found a way to use them over people...to control them.. to enslave many. So everyone of them hung on the cross with Him. He did way with the old...BUT God promised to rewrite them on our hearts. He is doing that, that is why so many see that His laws are to be kept..they are keeping them because they found reason to keep them. They see them as His love...for our well being etc. Some have not found those reasons meaning they will not be convinced to keep them and them not being written on their hearts they are not in sin....All that really matters...is if you see His love in your heart...then breaking His laws would be sin only to you.
As far as the Sabbath goes...I keep the Sabbath...Saturday as a reminder that He created this earth for our redemtion...I keep Sunday as a day looking forward to the new age, new creation...As a family day.

HI Wonder,

Sunday sanctity is purely a Catholic invention.

There is no Biblical merit to Sunday in any sense. It is based soley on the tradition of misguided men. Paul spoke about the beginning of the
apostacy about 2000 years ago.

It is amazing that the 10 Commandments are (especially the 4th Commandment--the Sabbath) the subject of great confusion. Jesus Christ gave Moses, on mount Horeb, the only part of the entire Bible that was written by God directly--the 10 Commandments. This confusion according to Bible prophecy is the aim of spiritual Babylon (the Catholic Church).

Wether you realize it or not, you give aligiance to the Roman Catholic Church when you hold Sunday as being a holy day. Sunday sanctity is the mark of her power. She openly admits this.

Please have a look at the Catholic link below.

http://www.immaculateheart.com/MaryOnLine/html/apologetics.html

Your brother in Christ,
TheTruthSeeker

geocajun · Dec 26, 2002

Originally posted by thetruthseeker
HI Wonder,

Sunday sanctity is purely a Catholic invention.

There is no Biblical merit to Sunday in any sense. It is based soley on the tradition of misguided men. Paul spoke about the beginning of the
apostacy about 2000 years ago.

thats true if you disregard the following verses of Scripture and hunt and peck around scripture to find verses that mean what you want. that way you aren't bound to the whole of scripture see..
"passages of Scripture such as Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2, Colossians 2:16-17, and Revelation 1:10 indicate that, even during New Testament times, the Sabbath is no longer binding and that Christians are to worship on the Lords day, Sunday, instead."
www.catholic.com/library/sabbath_or_sunday.asp

thetruthseeker · Dec 26, 2002

Originally posted by geocajun
thats true if you disregard the following verses of Scripture and hunt and peck around scripture to find verses that mean what you want. that way you aren't bound to the whole of scripture see..
"passages of Scripture such as Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2, Colossians 2:16-17, and Revelation 1:10 indicate that, even during New Testament times, the Sabbath is no longer binding and that Christians are to worship on the Lords day, Sunday, instead."
www.catholic.com/library/sabbath_or_sunday.asp

Hi Geocajun,

Okay, Geo. Since you refuse to read over this thread I will try to start from scratch again or link you to old sections of this thread that deal with your questions.

You will find that if you study the Bible in the spirit of truth and not artificial traditions, that there are many discrepencies between what the Catholic Church practices and what the Bible teaches.

You must surely know that the Catholic Church considers itself to be above the Bible, right?

It would be nice for you to show how these verses (the ones that you provided) promote Sunday sanctity. Your very own Church dismisses the verses that you gave. Please read the link below before you respond. You should know what a conversation is about before you join or else it becomes a monologue.

Again, click on the link (Catholic) below:

http://www.immaculateheart.com/MaryOnLine/html/apologetics.html

P.S. Like I said before, my family were all Catholics until they started reading the Bible for themselves. Please know that I am not attacking the individual people in the Catholic Church when I respond, but the Catholic system. There are many good people in the Catholic Church. I want you to know that I consider you to be a brother in the Lord and that nothing is personal. The truth is what is important--right?

The Bible and history makes it very clear that the Catholic Church is the Antichrist, harlot of Babylon and the Beast. The proof is absolutely irrefutable.

If you are willing for me to explain some of the miriad of errors of the Catholic Church, send me a Private Messege or email. I guarantee that you will receive the shock of your life. Let's hope that this is a good shock. By the way, this goes for anyone who is interested.

Your brother in Christ,
TheTruthSeeker

Wonder · Dec 26, 2002

I believe you have read into it more than I had said....I plainly stated I keep the Sabbath, weekly and others,....I keep Sunday as a family day....family day....Sabbath day...not the same.
I see nothing wrong with not working on Sunday as to take care of family business....
There is no Biblical merit to flushing a toliet...I do that too
I would like you, if you would, define what you see Paul speaking when he talks of the apostacy.
Thanks

geocajun · Dec 26, 2002

Originally posted by thetruthseeker
Hi Geocajun,

Okay, Geo. Since you refuse to read over this thread I will try to start from scratch again or link you to old sections of this thread that deal with your questions.

You will find that if you study the Bible in the spirit of truth and not artificial traditions, that there are many discrepencies between what the Catholic Church practices and what the Bible teaches.

You must surely know that the Catholic Church considers itself to be above the Bible, right?

who do you think created the bible?!?!?!?
The Bible did not fall from heaven...

P.S. Like I said before, my family were all Catholics until they started reading the Bible for themselves. Please know that I am not attacking the individual people in the Catholic Church when I respond, but the Catholic system. There are many good people in the Catholic Church. I want you to know that I consider you to be a brother in the Lord and that nothing is personal. The truth is what is important--right?

The Bible and history makes it very clear that the Catholic Church is the Antichrist, harlot of Babylon and the Beast. The proof is absolutely irrefutable.

If you are willing for me to explain some of the miriad of errors of the Catholic Church, send me a Private Messege or email. I guarantee that you will receive the shock of your life. Let's hope that this is a good shock. By the way, this goes for anyone who is interested.
[/COLOR]

Your brother in Christ,
TheTruthSeeker

Click to expand...

you will never find objective truth outside the Catholic Church brother.
you must acknowledge that without the Church you would have no bible, and without the bible you would have no beliefs. you are in logical conflict by accepting some traditions of man (the bible) but not others.
I have heard em all, but give me your best shot. Give me 1 single doctine of the Catholic Church that is 'objectivly' wrong. Not Subjectivly wrong.. I dont want to hear this "because I said soo" obstinance. Remeber this is 'truth' we are seeking, not your personal subjectivity.
I put my faith in God, who tells me His Church is the pillar and foundation of truth.

thetruthseeker · Dec 26, 2002

Originally posted by Wonder
I believe you have read into it more than I had said....I plainly stated I keep the Sabbath, weekly and others,....I keep Sunday as a family day....family day....Sabbath day...not the same.
I see nothing wrong with not working on Sunday as to take care of family business....
There is no Biblical merit to flushing a toliet...I do that too
I would like you, if you would, define what you see Paul speaking when he talks of the apostacy.
Thanks

Hi Wonder,

I'm sorry if I misunderstood you.

Regarding Paul, please send me a Private Messege or email. I don't want the administrators to erase this thread. They erased the "Will There be a Secret Rapture" thread when it began to reveal too much of the hidden abominations of the Papacy and the Catholic church.

Your brother in Christ,
TheTruthSeeker

Pastor N.B. · Dec 26, 2002

Hi,
Give SCRIPTURE for your 'thinking' please!
And tell us how the Pope & the Everlasting have ANYTHING in common???

As I said before, anyone that will not take the WORD OF CHRIST FIRST, is wasting Gods time as far as I am concerned. (added emphasis on 'God's time') See Titus 3:9-11.
P/N/B/
PS: No sarcasm intended, moderators. For there are many Catholics that believe that the Word of God is what is infallible.
*****

Originally posted by geocajun
well the only reason I have for thinking the bible is inspired is the Pope, and the Catechism. Why do you think the bible is inspired? if the Church told me today that they were wrong, and the bible is not inspired, I wouldnt read it.... think about it. The Bible cannot stand on its own.
The Bible is a product of the Church. I hear the entire word of God brother.
I am a bible christian yes, but not a bible worshipper.

'change' ? I think you are using change to mean 'contradict' which is not posssible, no. Can God prophesy and fullfil his word? of course He can...

I hope it isn't because of obstinance on either part. By the way, do you think people aren't truth seekers when you stop agreeing with them?

as opposed to 'yesterdays truth' ? Christ is ALWAYS the truth my brother, this why I follow him.

nice blanker statement, lets hope your judgement isn't true.

While there is a time for Eschatology, I dont try to predict the endtimes. Christ tells us he will come again as a theif in the night, so I will just love Him and serve Him and not concern myself with speculation on what its gonna sound like or how He will punish those who do not love Him. ..

there are lots of spirits out there, and not all of them are Holy. At least we can know the Holy Spirit is in the Catholic Church. I pray this is true for Christian denomoniations as well.

seangoh · Dec 26, 2002

Originally posted by Wonder
God wrote His laws on stone...cold hard stone! But He made a promise that one day He would write them on our hearts.
Jesus had to do away with the Law because people had found a way to use them over people...to control them.. to enslave many.

The way you write it seems like God made a mistake when he wrote the commandments on stone. It seems that because people abused the law, God had to change his method.

Pastor N.B. · Dec 26, 2002

Hi,
The test for ALL TRUTH is seen in the Word of God! Isaiah 8:20!!
The Covenant is Eternal! (EVERLASTING HAS NO BEGINNING) Heb. 12:20.
This is the FIRST TEST! It is HIS writtings that were to be eternalized!
In ROCK! Called the LETTER of Christ written in the fleshy tables of the heart in the new covenant! 2 Cor. 3:3. This EPISTLE (letter) is the make up of the character of the Master-PERFECT!

Then comes the testimony part, Holy men of God, spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost, they penned this portion!

Yet, Truth is NOT TRUTH, if either part is violated! The Word says that there IS NO LIGHT IN THEM! 1 John 2:4 says that there is NO TRUTH IN THEM!
Wow, 't'ruth/less & 'l'ightless!

Who agrees? See 1 John 4:6--------------------P/N/B/

thetruthseeker · Dec 26, 2002

Originally posted by Pastor N.B.
Hi,
The test for ALL TRUTH is seen in the Word of God! Isaiah 8:20!!
The Covenant is Eternal! (EVERLASTING HAS NO BEGINNING) Heb. 12:20.
This is the FIRST TEST! It is HIS writtings that were to be eternalized!
In ROCK! Called the LETTER of Christ written in the fleshy tables of the heart in the new covenant! 2 Cor. 3:3. This EPISTLE (letter) is the make up of the character of the Master-PERFECT!

Then comes the testimony part, Holy men of God, spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost, they penned this portion!

Yet, Truth is NOT TRUTH, if either part is violated! The Word says that there IS NO LIGHT IN THEM! 1 John 2:4 says that there is NO TRUTH IN THEM!
Wow, 't'ruth/less & 'l'ightless!

Who agrees? See 1 John 4:6--------------------P/N/B/

Hi Pastor NB,

I agree. You took the words right out of... the Bible

Let's pray for our brothers and sisters who are caught in spiritual Babylon. Let's pray that they will see the light and truly put the Bible first.

Yes, God's law like His character never ends. We are the creatures and He is the Creator. We must conform our lives to His ways, not the other way around.

Your brother in Christ,
TheTruthSeeker

geocajun · Dec 26, 2002

Originally posted by Pastor N.B.
Hi,
Give SCRIPTURE for your 'thinking' please!
And tell us how the Pope & the Everlasting have ANYTHING in common???

As I said before, anyone that will not take the WORD OF CHRIST FIRST, is wasting Gods time as far as I am concerned. (added emphasis on 'God's time') See Titus 3:9-11.
P/N/B/
PS: No sarcasm intended, moderators. For there are many Catholics that believe that the Word of God is what is infallible.
*****

who was the man who told you scripture was the word of God? what authority told you that?
Scripture is only one of the ways in which God talks to us, he also talks to us through sacred tradition and His Church.

What day is the Sabbath?

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