What criteria should we use to identify genuine miracles in modern times?

[TruthSeek3r]

What does a genuine miracle look like?

How to distinguish between a genuine miracle and just coincidence / a natural event?

There are many books collating reports of miracles in modern times (see a few examples below). Can we trust those reports? Are they all lies?

• The Case for Miracles: A Journalist Investigates Evidence for the Supernatural (link)
• Miracles : 2 Volumes: The Credibility of the New Testament Accounts (link)
  
• Miracles Today: The Supernatural Work of God in the Modern World. (link)
• The Miracles: A Medical Doctor Says Yes to Miracles! (link)

How can we know for sure that a genuine miracle has truly happened?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

What does a genuine miracle look like?

How to distinguish between a genuine miracle and just coincidence / a natural event?

There are many books collating reports of miracles in modern times (see a few examples below). Can we trust those reports? Are they all lies?

• The Case for Miracles: A Journalist Investigates Evidence for the Supernatural (link)
• Miracles : 2 Volumes: The Credibility of the New Testament Accounts (link)
  
• Miracles Today: The Supernatural Work of God in the Modern World. (link)
• The Miracles: A Medical Doctor Says Yes to Miracles! (link)

How can we know for sure that a genuine miracle has truly happened?

It is supernatural in other words, breaks the laws of nature.
Blessings

 

[TruthSeek3r]

It is supernatural in other words, breaks the laws of nature.
Blessings

I mean, sure, but how do you know when that has happened?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I mean, sure, but how do you know when that has happened?

Well if someone walks on water you know that is breaking a natural law.

 

[TruthSeek3r]

Well if someone walks on water you know that is breaking a natural law.

What if you only have access to the testimonies? What if you don't see someone walking on water but hear the testimony of someone else who saw someone else walking on water? Would you believe them?

 

[SuperCow]

A miracle could be a natural event regardless of whether or not it is explainable by science. Therefore, the miracle is really in the eye of the beholder. I'm sure God intervenes in very mundane ways in 99% of the cases, because a grandiose spectacle is simply not required or would be counterproductive. No scientific analysis would call the events miracles, but could still be miracles for the recipient.

To illustrate my own experience, About 20 years ago, I needed to do something that required money. (Nobody was particularly in danger or threatened in any way. I just felt I couldn't do the right thing with my resources at the time.) After a prayer of what I should do about it, the very next day a hailstorm went through the county and hailed on both my car and my house, damaging both superficially. While that may seem counterintuitive as to why it was a positive thing, several co-workers urged me to contact my insurance company, and I got a settlement for $1800 for my car and $2500 for my roof, neither of which I was required to repair. I sold both a couple of years later, probably for less money than otherwise, but by that time money was irrelevant.

Was that a miracle? Not in the classical sense. Hailstorms happened all the time at certain times of the year in that state. That it happened at the specific time that I needed it is the miracle, which is something no onlooker could quantify.

People all the time are writing books about possible natural causes for Noah's flood or the Exodus plagues, the walls of Jericho or quite a few other Biblical events. Whether they can find a natural cause or not is largely irrelevant. The real miracle for Noah is that someone told him years in advance so he could prepare. Someone told Moses in advance of each plague how it would happen and play out. Whether an earthquake brought down Jericho or the marching and horn blowing resonance of the horns weakened the structure of the walls, someone still had to tell Joshua what to do. In every case, the result would not be a miracle without the prophet to warn people.

 

[Albion]

How to distinguish between a genuine miracle and just coincidence / a natural event?
How can we know for sure that a genuine miracle has truly happened?

It would have to be a case of something happening that absolutely could not happen, according to all the laws of nature.

If the event is rare but has happened occasionally, as is the case with many medical recoveries or healings, we cannot with confidence label it a miracle, although we cannot dismiss the possibility. So also, if there is a possible explanation but we just do not know how it could take place, we'd have to be cautious about considering it a miracle.

For instance, sea gulls suddenly appearing many hundreds of miles from their usual seaside home and then saving the settlers' crops by devouring the locusts could be a miracle, but there are possible explanations because of freak weather conditions, for instance. However, if a man loses his arm in combat but, after prayer, it grows back, I'd call that a miracle.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

What if you only have access to the testimonies? What if you don't see someone walking on water but hear the testimony of someone else who saw someone else walking on water? Would you believe them?

If it serves to grow The Kingdom of God then believe it.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

@truthseeker....remember what Jesus Christ of Nazareth said to His Apostles when they complained to Him.
Luke 9
49Now John answered and said, “Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow with us.”
50But Jesus said to him, “Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side.”

 

[Fervent]

I think even categorizing things as "natural events" is a mistake. The appearance of an ordered, law-obeying nature, is more of an illusion than what is actually happening. Miracles are not exceptions, or manipulations by God of an otherwise physical reality, but simply unexpected expressions of ordinary processes. There is no real reason to distinguish between "natural" and "supernatural" considering at base it is all supernatural.

 

[bling]

What does a genuine miracle look like?

How to distinguish between a genuine miracle and just coincidence / a natural event?

There are many books collating reports of miracles in modern times (see a few examples below). Can we trust those reports? Are they all lies?

• The Case for Miracles: A Journalist Investigates Evidence for the Supernatural (link)
• Miracles : 2 Volumes: The Credibility of the New Testament Accounts (link)
  
• Miracles Today: The Supernatural Work of God in the Modern World. (link)
• The Miracles: A Medical Doctor Says Yes to Miracles! (link)

How can we know for sure that a genuine miracle has truly happened?

I have the indwelling Holy Spirit which can lead me to the truth, but my indwelling Holy Spirit is for me and only revel Himself to others through me, so people see Him in me or see just me. The Spirit can tell me a if a real miracle occurred,

 

[Albion]

I think even categorizing things as "natural events" is a mistake. The appearance of an ordered, law-obeying nature, is more of an illusion than what is actually happening. Miracles are not exceptions, or manipulations by God of an otherwise physical reality, but simply unexpected expressions of ordinary processes.

If that were so, it would defy the definition of a miracle. The event, whatever it might be, would be IN ACCORD with natural law but just one of a variety of possible outcomes.

 

[Fervent]

If that were so, it would defy the definition of a miracle. The event, whatever it might be, would be IN ACCORD with natural law but just one of a variety of possible outcomes.

I agree, the common definition of miracles is not accurate. God's action in the Bible is not held to be an exception to a general rule, but the rule itself. Our perception of "laws of nature" is simply a modern concept that isn't necessarily true of reality but instead a useful fiction for organization.

 

[Albion]

I agree, the common definition of miracles is not accurate. God's action in the Bible is not held to be an exception to a general rule, but the rule itself. Our perception of "laws of nature" is simply a modern concept that isn't necessarily true of reality but instead a useful fiction for organization.

I'd say it's more a matter of people seeing a favorable outcome that wasn't expected and then immediately calling it a miracle.

 

[Fervent]

I'd say it's more a matter of people seeing a favorable outcome that wasn't expected and then immediately calling it a miracle.

It seems to me an issue of sovereignty/providence. There's a cultural thread that views God in a natural theology light, at the mercy of the forces of nature, rather than superintending the universe. What is natural is supernatural and the distinction between the two is more a matter of art than reality.

 

[tdidymas]

What does a genuine miracle look like?

How to distinguish between a genuine miracle and just coincidence / a natural event?

There are many books collating reports of miracles in modern times (see a few examples below). Can we trust those reports? Are they all lies?

• The Case for Miracles: A Journalist Investigates Evidence for the Supernatural (link)
• Miracles : 2 Volumes: The Credibility of the New Testament Accounts (link)
  
• Miracles Today: The Supernatural Work of God in the Modern World. (link)
• The Miracles: A Medical Doctor Says Yes to Miracles! (link)

How can we know for sure that a genuine miracle has truly happened?

I don't trust any reports of miracles, unless I know the person and their integrity, and I know the circumstances around the story. I've heard far too many reports of miracles that weren't miracles. People often cry 'miracle' to coincidences, simply because it appears out of the ordinary, or because it caters to their convenience. I call that superstition.

However, I don't try to correct people who claim miracles, because it never does any good. I stick to what the Bible says and quote it whenever appropriate. I try to follow what Jesus commanded, namely 'rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep.'

I define 'miracle' by what the Bible calls a miracle. But there is another category of supernatural events that people often call a miracle, but it's a 'grey area' in which it is difficult to say if it's really a miracle or not. That is the idea of the Providence of God, in which God is at work through secondary means (natural means). Here are some examples of each:
Parting of the Red Sea or the Jordan River - miracle
Raising of the dead - miracle
Casting out a demon (instantaneously) - miracle
Walking on water - miracle
Instant stopping of a storm - miracle
Changing water into wine instantaneously - miracle
Limitless olive oil supply until rain - miracle
Instantaneous healing from hopeless cancer condition - miracle
Appearance of an angel - miracle
Drought and end of it by the word of a prophet - miracles
The 2nd attack on Ai of the Israel army - providence
End of a drought due to prayers - providence
Salvation of a soul through preaching - providence
Deliverance from addiction - providence
Healing from cancer through chemotherapy - providence
Out of money and praying to feed family, find $10 bill caught in the grass - providence
Convenient parking spot right when I need it - coincidence
etc.

Many coincidences might be called providence, especially if the event was exceptionally dangerous, but without incidence (like avoiding a traffic accident). But they should not be called miracles because it happened through natural means. A miracle is something that defies natural processes.

I am very skeptical of someone claiming that a person rose from the dead, although it is possible it might have happened several times throughout history after the 1st Century. Unfortunately, I've seen so much exaggeration about things like that, I tend not to believe those kinds of testimonies. People often make exaggerative assumptions based solely on appearance.

This final example is very controversial because of the religious stigma involved. What is commonly called 'speaking in tongues' today is not miraculous, and is quite different than what the apostles did in Acts 2. It's been proven that anyone can do it, and I have done it myself, so it is merely a natural ability. But what they did in Acts 2 can't be done - speaking in an intelligible foreign language with no training, so that is obviously miraculous.

 

[TruthSeek3r]

I don't trust any reports of miracles, unless I know the person and their integrity, and I know the circumstances around the story.

Are there exceptional instances of miracle reports that you trust?

 

[Fervent]

I don't trust any reports of miracles, unless I know the person and their integrity, and I know the circumstances around the story. I've heard far too many reports of miracles that weren't miracles. People often cry 'miracle' to coincidences, simply because it appears out of the ordinary, or because it caters to their convenience. I call that superstition.

However, I don't try to correct people who claim miracles, because it never does any good. I stick to what the Bible says and quote it whenever appropriate. I try to follow what Jesus commanded, namely 'rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep.'

I define 'miracle' by what the Bible calls a miracle. But there is another category of supernatural events that people often call a miracle, but it's a 'grey area' in which it is difficult to say if it's really a miracle or not. That is the idea of the Providence of God, in which God is at work through secondary means (natural means). Here are some examples of each:
Parting of the Red Sea or the Jordan River - miracle
Raising of the dead - miracle
Casting out a demon (instantaneously) - miracle
Walking on water - miracle
Instant stopping of a storm - miracle
Changing water into wine instantaneously - miracle
Limitless olive oil supply until rain - miracle
Instantaneous healing from hopeless cancer condition - miracle
Appearance of an angel - miracle
Drought and end of it by the word of a prophet - miracles
The 2nd attack on Ai of the Israel army - providence
End of a drought due to prayers - providence
Salvation of a soul through preaching - providence
Deliverance from addiction - providence
Healing from cancer through chemotherapy - providence
Out of money and praying to feed family, find $10 bill caught in the grass - providence
Convenient parking spot right when I need it - coincidence
etc.

Many coincidences might be called providence, especially if the event was exceptionally dangerous, but without incidence (like avoiding a traffic accident). But they should not be called miracles because it happened through natural means. A miracle is something that defies natural processes.

I am very skeptical of someone claiming that a person rose from the dead, although it is possible it might have happened several times throughout history after the 1st Century. Unfortunately, I've seen so much exaggeration about things like that, I tend not to believe those kinds of testimonies. People often make exaggerative assumptions based solely on appearance.

This final example is very controversial because of the religious stigma involved. What is commonly called 'speaking in tongues' today is not miraculous, and is quite different than what the apostles did in Acts 2. It's been proven that anyone can do it, and I have done it myself, so it is merely a natural ability. But what they did in Acts 2 can't be done - speaking in an intelligible foreign language with no training, so that is obviously miraculous.

This is tempting to agree with, except where in the Bible are the things you list as miraculous treated as exceptions? Miracles are demonstrations of God's power, but the ordinary course of things is sufficient for such demonstration which is why Jesus said "an evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign." Miracles, while seemingly exceptional, are in fact ordinary. It is our expectations that creates the difference. If the distinction is God's direct action, it is present in ordinary providence just as much as in extraordinary events.

 

[tdidymas]

This is tempting to agree with, except where in the Bible are the things you list as miraculous treated as exceptions? Miracles are demonstrations of God's power, but the ordinary course of things is sufficient for such demonstration which is why Jesus said "an evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign." Miracles, while seemingly exceptional, are in fact ordinary. It is our expectations that creates the difference. If the distinction is God's direct action, it is present in ordinary providence just as much as in extraordinary events.

The parting of the sea and river are exceptions and not ordinary events (or the raising of the dead). How can you possibly claim these are ordinary events?

 

[tdidymas]

Are there exceptional instances of miracle reports that you trust?

It boils down to whether or not I trust the individual giving the report. For example, Elizabeth Elliott wrote of her miraculous healing from cancer. Also two ladies I knew told me of their instantaneous healing. None of these people had any reason to exaggerate. So, part of what my trust depends on is the circumstances surrounding the event.

An example of a report I don't trust is a claim of rising from the dead in which a man was presumed to be dead and then woke up during a Reinhard Bonnke crusade. I read of the details of the story, and concluded that people could have presumed death when he wasn't actually dead. That's a far cry from Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead.