What comes after the wall?

redleghunter

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Yes, by killing people, not simply just having a wall but by killing those who tried to get around/over/under/through it.

You think that's the Christian way?
Now you are applying motive where there is none.

Nations are sovereign because they have borders.

I’m not seeing your open borders position as Christian. In fact it’s allows for lawlessness to reign.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Yes, by killing people, not simply just having a wall but by killing those who tried to get around/over/under/through it.

You think that's the Christian way?
What country do you think is Christian?
 
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ArmenianJohn

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Now you are applying motive where there is none.

Nations are sovereign because they have borders.

I’m not seeing your open borders position as Christian. In fact it’s allows for lawlessness to reign.
Well I think it's pretty clear that Jesus does not approve of what's happening in America right now in regards to the border policy. We can have closed borders and still treat people with dignity but we don't. America is not "good" as people think we are. And I'm not advocating for "open borders" (by the way, we HAVE "open borders", we do not have our borders CLOSED), I did say "it's fine to police the borders". I'm talking about mistreating people which is what we are doing to the point of destroying families and treating humans like animals as well as killing children. None of that seems to be any problem at all for you and the other Wall-lovers.
 
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ArmenianJohn

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What country do you think is Christian?
Armenia. What's your point? What's the relevance of Armenia to this? Armenia does have open borders and has taken in any Syrian refugee who goes there. Was that what you're driving at? Thanks for the example!
 
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redleghunter

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Well I think it's pretty clear that Jesus does not approve of what's happening in America right now
Indeed, murdering the unborn is not what a Christian nation would do. Since there are no "Christian nations around" it is par for the course that others abuse others to gain.

We can have closed borders and still treat people with dignity but we don't.
Opinion noted.

America is not "good" as people think we are.
Again, the national self loathing opinion noted.

And I'm not advocating for "open borders"
Indeed you are.
I did say "it's fine to police the borders"
Without physical barriers was your position. Which means anyone can walk across the international boundary.

I'm talking about mistreating people which is what we are doing to the point of destroying families and treating humans like animals as well as killing children.
No one is killing children and the conditions on our side of the border is the best among nations.


None of that seems to be any problem at all for you and the other Wall-lovers.
Your tired rhetorical propaganda is no problem for me and others who believe sovereign nations have a right to protect themselves.

There is nothing wrong with physical barriers in general. They only become evil when Republicans (or Trump specifically) advocate them.
 
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ArmenianJohn

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Indeed, murdering the unborn is not what a Christian nation would do. Since there are no "Christian nations around" it is par for the course that others abuse others to gain.
Don't misquote me by taking what I said out of context. I'm not talking about the unborn (although that is a problem in this country as well). I'm talking about the handling of "illegal immigration". You couldn't respond to what I said so you distorted what I said by partially quoting me to take my words out of context. That's pathetic and disingenuous and shows what kind of (lack of) character you have.

Again, the national self loathing opinion noted.
Funny how a Christian assessment of America is taken to be "self-loathing" by people who worship America. Actually not funny, but said. And unfortunately, predictable. The idol of America is guarded by her worshipers at all costs, even if it means going against God's Word.

Indeed you are.
You obviously have reading comprehension problems.

Without physical barriers was your position. Which means anyone can walk across the international boundary.
No, not "without physical barriers". There already ARE physical barriers and there will be more to come. I'm addressing the massive "wall" (fence? who can keep up with the ever-changing nonsense?) that costs way too much and intends to harm people rather than actually address any illegal immigration problem.

No one is killing children and the conditions on our side of the border is the best among nations.
LOL, tell that to the parents of the two kids who died due to the neglect of our thugs who were watching them while they had them in cages. "best among nations"? LOL, cages for people, including all children, like they're animals. Wow. You sound so proud!!! I'd ask you what you think Jesus thinks about that but I think your position on what Jesus thinks is very clear by now. America first, right?

Your tired rhetorical propaganda is no problem for me and others who believe sovereign nations have a right to protect themselves.
Sorry if I put God's Word higher than America. Man cannot serve two masters, so I choose God.

There is nothing wrong with physical barriers in general. They only become evil when Republicans (or Trump specifically) advocate them.
They only become evil when people fixate on them as part of a larger scheme to harm people rather than address a problem that needs to be fixed. That's what you people are doing right now. The driving force behind it is America worship which is at an all-time high now that Trump is in power. All of a sudden God's Word is out the window to accommodate the thrice-divorced adulterous president who boldly claims he doesn't need to ask God for forgiveness. Have fun with your president!
 
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redleghunter

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I'm talking about the handling of "illegal immigration".
Yes it's illegal which means against the standing law. I'm glad we can come to an agreement of obvious terms.
You couldn't respond to what I said so you distorted what I said by partially quoting me to take my words out of context. That's pathetic and disingenuous and shows what kind of (lack of) character you have.
Well sometimes a wake up call is needed when some are cavalier on the use of propaganda or talking points.

The idol of America is guarded by her worshipers at all costs, even if it means going against God's Word.
Break the idol and go home to Armenia. No one is stopping you.

No, not "without physical barriers". There already ARE physical barriers and there will be more to come. I'm addressing the massive "wall" (fence? who can keep up with the ever-changing nonsense?) that costs way too much and intends to harm people rather than actually address any illegal immigration problem.
Walls only harm people who climb them and fall and hurt themselves.

LOL, tell that to the parents of the two kids who died due to the neglect of our thugs who were watching them while they had them in cages.
They were in cages? Where's the proof of that? What of the parents dragging them thousands of miles over dangerous terrain, highway robbers, rapists, human traffickers and more? Please stop blaming the people trying to remedy the problem instead of the ones creating it.

Sorry if I put God's Word higher than America.
Yeah have not seen one quote from Scriptures so the usual SJW version of the 'gospel' reindeer games no play here.

They only become evil when people fixate on them as part of a larger scheme to harm people rather than address a problem that needs to be fixed.

Again, only when Republicans call for security is it "un_Christian" and oppressive.

But I would agree the larger problem are failed states like Venezuela, Honduras, El Salvador and a few others on the brink of failure.
 
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The Barbarian

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How about one of these?
571c6423b246e92eaa087f9742a719d9.jpg

Way better. Forts every half-mile or so. Highway on top. Crenelated battlements. A big beautiful wall.

Didn't work, of course. But it's amazing.
 
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EpiscipalMe

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ArmenianJohn

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Yes it's illegal which means against the standing law. I'm glad we can come to an agreement of obvious terms.
For one thing, US and International Law dictate that noncitizens arriving at our borders have a right to apply for asylum and other forms of protection, yet Trump is having them turned away without affording them that right, and that's why he's already being sued for this.

But regarding the ones who illegally enter, yes, it's against the law, so what's your point? So is speeding, so is jaywalking - if you speed with your kid in your car should they separate you and throw your kid in a cage and throw you in jail for a few weeks?

Well sometimes a wake up call is needed when some are cavalier on the use of propaganda or talking points.
When you can only give "a wake up call" by lying (i.e. distorting and misrepresenting what someone else said) then you clearly have nothing rational to stand on. But at least you're proving that to everyone. Of course, you never meant to send a "wake up call" - you just wanted to lie in an effort to deflect and dodge the issue.

Break the idol and go home to Armenia. No one is stopping you.
I've broken the idol which is why I don't worship America. You're the one who needs to break the idol. As for Armenia, that's not my home - I was born and raised in New Jersey, which makes me more American than you!

As for your Irish home, if Ireland is so great why aren't you there? Or is that a second idol for you?

Walls only harm people who climb them and fall and hurt themselves.
Walls also harm the people whose money is being misappropriated towards their construction. You and the other wall supporters are basically saying that it's more important to spend billions on a wall or fence instead of feeding the poor, starving children right here in our country (much less around the world) or helping our veterans get the care they need. Again, that's not the right priority for people who follow Christian teachings from God's Word.

They were in cages? Where's the proof of that? What of the parents dragging them thousands of miles over dangerous terrain, highway robbers, rapists, human traffickers and more? Please stop blaming the people trying to remedy the problem instead of the ones creating it.
Yes, they are put into cages
Separation at the border: children wait in cages at south Texas warehouse

The parents "dragging them thousands of miles over dangerous terrain, highway robbers, rapists, human traffickers and more" are trying to save those very children. You wouldn't understand because you are spoiled and don't have any notion of how people live in a place where they must flee and run and travel because it's so bad where they are that the dangers of fleeing are more favorable.

My own grandparents had to go through it - they were dragged thousands of miles over dangerous terrain, highway robbers, rapists, human traffickers, and an empire's army who wanted to kill them every minute of every day. They showed up in a majority-muslim country, poor penniless Christians, looking for help, handouts, kindness, etc. And they got it.

Meanwhile in America we want to send such people back to be killed, which makes America no better than the killers. Of course, America exists in large part because of the genocide America has committed, so maybe it shouldn't be a surprise. What IS a surprise though is how some people can claim to be Christians yet support America's continuing genocide of people in need.

As for blaming the people trying to remedy the problem, their "remedy" is more genocide, killing, harming children, etc. then their remedy deserves to be blamed. Of course, one should know God's Word to understand true morality and to understand that such "remedy" is against God, but it appears that millions don't know or care (or both) about God's Will. Yeah, I'm gonna keep on blaming the people who have the crappiest "remedy" ever which is to hurt people that need help - they deserve all the blame in the world for their immoral, anti-Christ "remedy".

Yeah have not seen one quote from Scriptures so the usual SJW version of the 'gospel' reindeer games no play here.
I should have realized that you need the quotes from Scripture, so that's my fault. For a brief moment I thought you were familiar with Scripture but thanks for reminding me that you aren't, so here is Scripture about how to treat people:
Exodus 22:21 “Do not mistreat or oppress a foreigner, for you were foreigners in Egypt.
Exodus 23:9
“Do not oppress a foreigner; you yourselves know how it feels to be foreigners, because you were foreigners in Egypt.

Deut. 10:19 And you are to love those who are foreigners, for you yourselves were foreigners in Egypt.

Leviticus 19:33“ ‘When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them.
34 The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

Here's what Christ said about who we're supposed to Love:
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven” (Matthew 5:43-45a).

“But I tell you who hear Me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you” (Luke 6:27-28)

If you need more Scripture on the subject just let me know, I have much, much more.

Again, only when Republicans call for security is it "un_Christian" and oppressive.
OK, if you say so!

But I would agree the larger problem are failed states like Venezuela, Honduras, El Salvador and a few others on the brink of failure.
And an even larger problem are greedy, predatory countries like America which impose conditions on people in the world that make those people live in horrible conditions to the point of becoming enslaved, sick and dying or being killed.
 
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redleghunter

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For one thing, US and International Law dictate that noncitizens arriving at our borders have a right to apply for asylum and other forms of protection, yet Trump is having them turned away without affording them that right, and that's why he's already being sued for this.
Who says they are being turned away? You mean the rock throwers?
 
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redleghunter

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I should have realized that you need the quotes from Scripture, so that's my fault. For a brief moment I thought you were familiar with Scripture but thanks for reminding me that you aren't, so here is Scripture about how to treat people:
Exodus 22:21 “Do not mistreat or oppress a foreigner, for you were foreigners in Egypt.
Exodus 23:9
“Do not oppress a foreigner; you yourselves know how it feels to be foreigners, because you were foreigners in Egypt.
No one is being oppressed. I'm sure if foreigners started throwing rocks at Joshua and his men they would not be welcome.
 
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ArmenianJohn

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ArmenianJohn

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No one is being oppressed. I'm sure if foreigners started throwing rocks at Joshua and his men they would not be welcome.
So all of them are throwing rocks? Prove it. (HINT: You can't, but I'd like to see you try, I could use a good laugh)
 
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redleghunter

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redleghunter

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So all of them are throwing rocks? Prove it. (HINT: You can't, but I'd like to see you try, I could use a good laugh)
Not all of them throwing rocks. You made that up. I asked even the ones throwing rocks.
 
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jgarden

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ZygliA20170414A_low.jpg

What comes after the wall?


Now that Trump no longer has his "THE GENERALS" to serve as "THE ADULTS" in the White House when it comes to foreign policy, there is nobody to push back against his long held desire to pull out of NATO!

With America no longer serving as a check against Russian aggression in Europe, Putin will be given the "green light" to start encroaching on the territory of its neighbors in an effort to re-establish the sphere of influence of the old Soviet Union!

China and North Korea will also be tempted to do the same thing in Asia, while Russia and Iran will be given a free hand to fill the "power vacuum" `left by the US military after it exits the Middle and Near East!
 
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ArmenianJohn

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Not all of them throwing rocks. You made that up. I asked even the ones throwing rocks.
Thank you for admitting they are not throwing rocks.

And no, you didn't ask "even the ones throwing rocks". You made the claim that they are throwing rocks. Now you are backpedaling a little and throwing in a modification as if nobody would notice.

You seem to have trouble keeping your story straight and you seem to hope nobody notices but it's very noticeable.
 
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ArmenianJohn

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Title is deceptive. The proclamation was for those who try to enter other than official crossing sites.

They can sue, and are, but when you have no capacity to process even those who come to the border the executive branch can deem necessary means. The courts will support the executive branch on this.
Thanks for admitting that "the proclamation was for those who try to enter other than official crossing sites" because in doing so you're admitting that the proclamation was to ILLEGALLY turn them away. It doesn't matter where they enter, they do NOT have to enter at a designated port of entry or "official crossing sites" (a term you made up), they can enter ANYWHERE and ask for asylum and by our own law they cannot be turned away.

You really should understand the law before you make claims defending Trump's breaking of the law. You've just put your ignorance on full display. Keep on digging...
 
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