What Christians must do to keep their salvation

[EmSw]

Seems to be a very elastic definition for works being used by some here...It might be helpful for those who believe that works are required for salvation to define what they mean by works.

Works of charity. See Matthew 25:31-46.

 

[Bro in Christ]

Works of charity. See Matthew 25:31-46.

Matt 7:21-23 good works that are burned up with them

 

[extraordinary]

Matt 7:21-23 good works that are burned up with them

Matt 7:21-23 is strictly (and only) about those who do the will of Father God, and dem dat don't.
.

 

[EmSw]

Matt 7:21-23 good works that are burned up with them

Read these verses which precede verses 21-23 -

17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
...
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

These weren't good works. These were works from a bad tree, a tree which practiced lawlessness.

 

[Bro in Christ]

Read these verses which precede verses 21-23 -

17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
...
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

These weren't good works. These were works from a bad tree, a tree which practiced lawlessness.

question is what is lawlessness?

romans 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. 12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light 13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. 14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Not this since still saved!

 

[Bro in Christ]

Matt 7:21-23 is strictly (and only) about those who do the will of Father God, and dem dat don't.
.

John 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

may this is lawlessness.... and believing is God's will

 

[EmSw]

question is what is lawlessness?

1 John 3:4 - Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.

romans 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. 12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light 13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. 14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Not this since still saved!

So you think those who do the works of darkness, walk dishonestly, riot, are drunkards, live in wantonness, strife, and envying, and fulfill the lusts of the flesh will inherit the kingdom of God?

1 Corinthians 6 -
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 5 -
19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Yes, this, as it was written to the saved.

 

[Bro in Christ]

1 John 3:4 - Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.



So you think those who do the works of darkness, walk dishonestly, riot, are drunkards, live in wantonness, strife, and envying, and fulfill the lusts of the flesh will inherit the kingdom of God?

1 Corinthians 6 -
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 5 -
19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Yes, this, as it was written to the saved.

only sin that sends one to hell is unbelief... jn 16:9

Why till we see His face we are not what we will be ... 1jn 3:2

The work of the Holy Spirit cleans us up and keeps us in Christ ... 1 cor 12:12, eph 1:13 , 1 cor 6:


1 cor 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

1 cor 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God

1 cor 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body 19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

 

[JLB777]

only sin that sends one to hell is unbelief... jn 16:9

Why till we see His face we are not what we will be ... 1jn 3:2

The work of the Holy Spirit cleans us up and keeps us in Christ ... 1 cor 12:12, eph 1:13 , 1 cor 6:


1 cor 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

1 cor 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God

1 cor 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body 19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10


This is written to born again Christians.

Paul makes this clear.

9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person. 1 Corinthians 5:9-11


Paul clearly teaches us born again Christians who practice these things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


Born again Christians who practice these things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Which means; sentenced to the everlasting fires of hell along with the devil.


JLB

 

[Bro in Christ]

How to become righteous?

Bible says

Romans 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness.

Luv scripture

 

[faroukfarouk]

Romans 8.38-39

 

[Bro in Christ]

Romans 8.38-39

If God so loved why are people separated from God when He sends people to hell

 

[Hillsage]

If God so loved why are people separated from God when He sends people to hell

PSA 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

Luv scripture.

Me too.

 

[Bro in Christ]

Psalms 139:8 .... If I make a bed in Sheol (not hell)

Difference is that Sheol is middle of the earth as hell not been created yet
Matt 7:13-14,21-23 Matt 8:12

 

[Hillsage]

Psalms 139:8 .... If I make a bed in Sheol (not hell)Difference is that Sheol is middle of the earth as hell not been created yet

You're right about one thing, translators do have a hard time in honestly dealing with hell.
Hell in the bible
KJV 54 times
NKJ 32 times
NIV 14 times
RSV 13 times
NAS 13 times
YLT 0 times
Of course I'm all about the Young's Literal Translation.

Matt 7:13-14,21-23 Matt 8:12

MAT 7:13 'Go ye in through the strait gate, because wide {is} the gate, and broad the way that is leading to the destruction, and many are those going in through it; 14 how strait {is} the gate, and compressed the way that is leading to the life, and few are those finding it!

This is not talking about the life of 'here after', it is talking about those walking in life or death here and now. This gate is narrow, certainly doesn't take all your life to walk through it. As you see this verse, where were both groups before they walked through either gate? Were they saved, unsaved? I know a lot of Christians who walk though the death gate here and now as workers of iniquity/KJV, lawlessness/YLT NAS, evildoers/RSV NIV.

'Daily choice' salvation/gate or 'once in a lifetime' salvation gate?
DEU 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days:

And your next verse;
YLT MAT 7:21 'Not every one who is saying to me Lord, lord, shall come into the reign of the heavens; but he who is doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, lord, have we not in thy name prophesied? and in thy name cast out demons? and in thy name done many mighty things? 23 and then I will acknowledge to them, that - I never knew you, depart from me ye who are working lawlessness.

And consistency says, this isn't a 'confession as savior' issue, it's a 'submission to lordship in works' issue. Just look at the bold above. He's talking about all that they did claiming his name of authority.

It's a judgment based upon doing works he ordained for you to do with His authority (Eph 2:10). It's about works that He called you to, or 'good religious works' he never called you to. IOW, works where you have become 'a law unto yourself' and not works you were being led by the Spirit, to do.

And your last verse also proves (in context) that we are dealing with an authority issue in regard to works being done.

MAT 8:9 for I also am a man under authority, having under myself soldiers, and I say to this one, Go, and he goeth, and to another, Be coming, and he cometh, and to my servant, Do this, and he doth {it}.' 10 And Jesus having heard, did wonder, and said to those following, 'Verily I say to you, not even in Israel so great faith have I found; 11 and I say to you, that many from east and west shall come and recline (at meat) with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the reign of the heavens, 12 but the sons of the reign shall be cast forth to the outer darkness - there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth.'

If you aren't under the authority of Jesus' lordship in what you're doing then you have no divine authority to do what you are doing....no matter how good and religious it is...there is no reward IN the hereafter heaven. But you'll never do anything to deserve the heaven OF the hereafter.

 

[Bro in Christ]

You're right about one thing, translators do have a hard time in honestly dealing with hell.
Hell in the bible
KJV 54 times
NKJ 32 times
NIV 14 times
RSV 13 times
NAS 13 times
YLT 0 times
Of course I'm all about the Young's Literal Translation.

MAT 7:13 'Go ye in through the strait gate, because wide {is} the gate, and broad the way that is leading to the destruction, and many are those going in through it; 14 how strait {is} the gate, and compressed the way that is leading to the life, and few are those finding it!

This is not talking about the life of 'here after', it is talking about those walking in life or death here and now. This gate is narrow, certainly doesn't take all your life to walk through it. As you see this verse, where were both groups before they walked through either gate? Were they saved, unsaved? I know a lot of Christians who walk though the death gate here and now as workers of iniquity/KJV, lawlessness/YLT NAS, evildoers/RSV NIV.

'Daily choice' salvation/gate or 'once in a lifetime' salvation gate?
DEU 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days:

And your next verse;
YLT MAT 7:21 'Not every one who is saying to me Lord, lord, shall come into the reign of the heavens; but he who is doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, lord, have we not in thy name prophesied? and in thy name cast out demons? and in thy name done many mighty things? 23 and then I will acknowledge to them, that - I never knew you, depart from me ye who are working lawlessness.

And consistency says, this isn't a 'confession as savior' issue, it's a 'submission to lordship in works' issue. Just look at the bold above. He's talking about all that they did claiming his name of authority.

It's a judgment based upon doing works he ordained for you to do with His authority (Eph 2:10). It's about works that He called you to, or 'good religious works' he never called you to. IOW, works where you have become 'a law unto yourself' and not works you were being led by the Spirit, to do.

And your last verse also proves (in context) that we are dealing with an authority issue in regard to works being done.

MAT 8:9 for I also am a man under authority, having under myself soldiers, and I say to this one, Go, and he goeth, and to another, Be coming, and he cometh, and to my servant, Do this, and he doth {it}.' 10 And Jesus having heard, did wonder, and said to those following, 'Verily I say to you, not even in Israel so great faith have I found; 11 and I say to you, that many from east and west shall come and recline (at meat) with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the reign of the heavens, 12 but the sons of the reign shall be cast forth to the outer darkness - there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth.'

If you aren't under the authority of Jesus' lordship in what you're doing then you have no divine authority to do what you are doing....no matter how good and religious it is...there is no reward IN the hereafter heaven. But you'll never do anything to deserve the heaven OF the hereafter.

Matt 7:15 is about false prophet teaching good works to go to heaven by using Jesus name .. 2 Cor 11:4 warns of another Jesus then go to 2 Cor 11:13-15

Lord ship is a good guess but Luke 13:25 is a better. Verse

God knows all things yet when he states I never knew you.... He never had a relationship

Lawlessness Matt 13:41-42 sent to hell

 

[Hillsage]

Matt 7:15 is about false prophet teaching good works to go to heaven by using Jesus name

Context! Fruit is how you judge the false prophet.

MAT 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

And the context of their "fruit" is then explained by what they "DOETH" and not 'in whom they believed for salvation'. This isn't a savior/relationship issue it is a lord/fellowship issue.

MAT 7:21 'Not every one who is saying to me Lord, lord, shall come into the reign of the heavenS; but he who is doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens.

Like this verse says, it is not a 'knowing him' issue salvation it is a 'doing the Father's will' issue salvation. And it isn't about 'going to heaven' it's about reigning in the heavenS (Plural) or 'spiritual realms' here with the authority of God. It is simply the difference between the salvation of your spirit as opposed to the salvation of your soul.

Lord ship is a good guess but Luke 13:25 is a better. Verse

Does the householder say I don't know you, or is the implication does know them, but doesn't doesn't know if they just came from the bar or something he disapproved of, therefore calling them workers of iniquity (like a lot of Christians today unfortunately)?

LUK 13:25 When once the householder has risen up and shut the door, you will begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, 'Lord, open to us.' He will answer you, 'I do not know where you come from.'26 Then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.' 27 But he will say, 'I tell you, I do not know where you come from; depart from me, all you workers of iniquity!'

And what is the ultimate fate of these people in scriptural context? Are they thrust out forever? No, they simply will be dealt with in judgment and end up being last, instead of first to enter.

LUK 13:30 And behold, some are last who will be first, and some are first who will be last."

God knows all things yet when he states I never knew you.... He never had a relationship

As you can see, your opinion based upon the scriptures you've shared doesn't support your POV....for me.

 

[Bro in Christ]

Judge them by their fruits
2 Coe 11:4,13-15 judge their fruits which is righteous vs 15 yet false apostles of satan's vs 13.

Or their words to scripture?

 

[Hillsage]

Judge them by their fruits
2 Coe 11:4,13-15 judge their fruits which is righteous vs 15 yet false apostles of satan's vs 13.

Or their words to scripture?

2CO 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Hmm. Again a judgment based according to "works" and not 'whether they knew Jesus as Savior'.

I think we're done, we just aren't on the same page concerning the truth of a OSAS salvation as well as a salvation where you can have 'gain and loss', but still go to heaven.

Tell me how you get your spirit saved, and how you get your soul saved. If you can do that, we might have more to talk about.

 

[Bro in Christ]

2CO 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Hmm. Again a judgment based according to "works" and not 'whether they knew Jesus as Savior'.

I think we're done, we just aren't on the same page concerning the truth of a OSAS salvation as well as a salvation where you can have 'gain and loss', but still go to heaven.

Tell me how you get your spirit saved, and how you get your soul saved. If you can do that, we might have more to talk about.

spirit belief the gospel 1 cor 15:3-4 nothing else added

Soul .... 1 Peter 1:9 happens when we get glorified eph 5:26

But when we live by faith to the promises given are spirit can control our soul...Phil 2:1-2