LDS What caused eternal matter to exist?

[Rescued One]

Doctrine and Covenants 93
9 The light and the Redeemer of the world; the Spirit of truth, who came into the world, because the world was made by him, and in him was the life of men and the light of men.

10 The worlds were made by him; men were made by him; all things were made by him, and through him, and of him....

29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence...


32 And every man whose spirit receiveth not the light is under condemnation.

33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;

34 And when separated, man cannot receive a fulness of joy.


Doctrine and Covenants 131
7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;

8 We cannot see it; but when our bodies are purified we shall see that it is all matter.

What caused this?

 

[fatboys]

Doctrine and Covenants 93
9 The light and the Redeemer of the world; the Spirit of truth, who came into the world, because the world was made by him, and in him was the life of men and the light of men.

10 The worlds were made by him; men were made by him; all things were made by him, and through him, and of him....

29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence...


32 And every man whose spirit receiveth not the light is under condemnation.

33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;

34 And when separated, man cannot receive a fulness of joy.


Doctrine and Covenants 131
7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;

8 We cannot see it; but when our bodies are purified we shall see that it is all matter.

What caused this?

It has always existed. Nothing created matter or energy

 

[Rescued One]

It has always existed. Nothing created matter or energy

Really? How do you know that?

 

[Jane_Doe]

Really? How do you know that?

Phoebe, if you would like to defend the idea that of ex nihilio creation, how about you supply a Bible verse where it specifies that God created things out of nothing?

 

[Ran77]

What caused this?

What caused what?

 

[Rescued One]

D&C 93
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

But the Bible says, in Colossians 1:
16 For by him[Christ] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

 

[fatboys]

D&C 93
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

But the Bible says, in Colossians 1:
16 For by him[Christ] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Where did God come from?

 

[Ran77]

D&C 93
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

But the Bible says, in Colossians 1:
16 For by him[Christ] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Does that mean Christ created God? Did He create Himself?

Because both of them would be part of the all inclusive "all things" set.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Does that mean Christ created God? Did He create Himself?

Because both of them would be part of the all inclusive "all things" set.

God is now known as a "thing".

 

[withwonderingawe]

16 For by him[Christ] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

The word 'things'' does not appear in the Greek Jesus created all that are in heaven, all that is visible to us and all which is not visible; whether they be thrones, dominions, principalities or power.

It does not say God created every atom.

 

[BigDaddy4]

The word 'things'' does not appear in the Greek Jesus created all that are in heaven, all that is visible to us and all which is not visible; whether they be thrones, dominions, principalities or power.

It does not say God created every atom.

Re-check your Greek (if you even know it). All means all, including "every atom". If not, then it would not be all. That's your theology talking, which does not line up with the truth.

 

[KevinSim]

Re-check your Greek (if you even know it). All means all, including "every atom". If not, then it would not be all. That's your theology talking, which does not line up with the truth.

The problem with this is, that if by all the passage literally means all, then, as others have pointed out, it includes God the Father and Jesus themselves. Surely God and Jesus are part of all. So you're left with the absurd idea that Jesus created Himself and His Father out of nothing. If you don't exist, how can you create anything?

 

[BigDaddy4]

The problem with this is, that if by all the passage literally means all, then, as others have pointed out, it includes God the Father and Jesus themselves. Surely God and Jesus are part of all. So you're left with the absurd idea that Jesus created Himself and His Father out of nothing. If you don't exist, how can you create anything?

Are you relegating God and Jesus to "things"?

 

[KevinSim]

Are you relegating God and Jesus to "things"?

Well, BigDaddy4, I carefully looked over everything I posted there, and I didn't see me saying anything about a "thing" or "things" once. So no, it looks like I'm not relegating God and Jesus to "things." I thought the agreement was that the original verses in scripture didn't actually say "all things"; they just said "all."

 

[Rescued One]

Creation happened at a point in time by God. God existed before creation.

Psalm 90
2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

 

[Rescued One]

Where did God come from?

Man wasn't in the beginning with God. D&C 93:29 is false.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Well, BigDaddy4, I carefully looked over everything I posted there, and I didn't see me saying anything about a "thing" or "things" once. So no, it looks like I'm not relegating God and Jesus to "things." I thought the agreement was that the original verses in scripture didn't actually say "all things"; they just said "all."

All still means all.

Let me help you. "any" + "thing" = anything.

The problem with this is, that if by all the passage literally means all, then, as others have pointed out, it includes God the Father and Jesus themselves. Surely God and Jesus are part of all. So you're left with the absurd idea that Jesus created Himself and His Father out of nothing. If you don't exist, how can you create anything?

God the Father, Jesus as God, and the Holy Spirit are not created. If they already exist from everlasting to everlasting, eternity to eternity, the Alpha and Omega, the great I AM, etc., they can create anything from nothing. Time did not exist, so God created it. “This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time” (2 Timothy 1:9).

The lds theology does not line up with the Bible.

 

[withwonderingawe]

Re-check your Greek (if you even know it). All means all, including "every atom". If not, then it would not be all. That's your theology talking, which does not line up with the truth.

In John 1 it says
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Now take the 'things' out

3 All were made by him; and without him was not any made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

The subject is men or mankind, Yahweh/Jesus created the physical body of Adam not from nothing but from the dust of the earth so in that way He created all men.

 

[Rescued One]

Well, BigDaddy4, I carefully looked over everything I posted there, and I didn't see me saying anything about a "thing" or "things" once. So no, it looks like I'm not relegating God and Jesus to "things." I thought the agreement was that the original verses in scripture didn't actually say "all things"; they just said "all."

Thank you for the answer!

Doctrine and Covenants 93
9 The light and the Redeemer of the world; the Spirit of truth, who came into the world, because the world was made by him, and in him was the life of men and the light of men.

10 The worlds were made by him; men were made by him; all things were made by him, and through him, and of him....

 

[withwonderingawe]

Thank you for the answer!

Doctrine and Covenants 93
9 The light and the Redeemer of the world; the Spirit of truth, who came into the world, because the world was made by him, and in him was the life of men and the light of men.

10 The worlds were made by him; men were made by him; all things were made by him, and through him, and of him....

He's quoting John 1 from the KJV and then it goes on to say

'Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be. .... The elements are eternal"

John uses the word ginomai 13 times just in that first chapter and it has different means each time.

We understand the word to basically mean "to come to pass" (strongs) all things came to pass by him.