What Authority is left if Emotions and Science Can't be Trusted?

[mkgal1]

After reading the typical statement made by those that hold to the complementarian theology that "God is a God of order"...I had gone on a search of images in nature that show a repeated pattern. This seems to be that common and repeated pattern we see in creation:

I'm not a scientist (nor did I even take geometry in school --I opted for more algebra instead)....but this is so fascinating to me (and it also seems to give us a small insight into God's "order" in creation, if we want to make that claim at all).

Then I got to thinking....another characteristic of those that follow comp theology is that they seem to have a disdain for science, so what's left? They dismiss or demonize emotions ("the heart is deceitful above all things...and desperately wicked") AND have contempt for science. So....what's left? It seems the only authority they teach can be trusted in those that are in their small group. Truth should be the same truth no matter where it's found (like the golden ratio)....we should see a pattern (but they seem to cut off other options to even look!).

Thoughts?

 

[mkgal1]

By the way.....maybe it's just me, but the ancient symbol of the Trinity seems very similar to me as well:

 

[mkgal1]

This is another example of the type of warnings that are given when looking at this, "Applying religion to math or vise versa is mystification.".....as was given here: https://www.goldennumber.net/theology/

......but if "mystification" is defined as Richard Rohr explains (below)....then why is that such a "scary" thing?

Now do not let the word “mystic” scare you off. It simply means one who has moved from mere belief systems or belonging systems to actual inner experience. All spiritual traditions agree that such a movement is possible, desirable, and available to everyone. In fact, Jesus seems to say that this is the whole point! (See, for example, John 10:19-38.)~Mysticism In Religion: Three Ways to View the Sunset | The Huffington Post

 

[Paidiske]

I think the big question on authority for that approach is the authority of Scripture, and how we read, understand and apply it.

 

[mkgal1]

I think the big question on authority for that approach is the authority of Scripture, and how we read, understand and apply it.

Right....but the problem is (as I am seeing it)....we all know there're several different interpretations of Scripture....so when other "avenues" are dismissed (or even demonized)..then we're only left with ONE person's narrow interpretation (we're even advised not to "go your own way" or "trust your own emotions"). Do you see what I mean? It's a cult-like tactic...that we can't trust anyone but the one "authority" to lead us into truth.

 

[mkgal1]

....and we miss out on things that are so beautiful like patterns in nature (which....to me....really sort of touches my soul in a way that written truth just can't impact me). It steals something from us that I believe God intended as a means to communicate to us.

 

[Zoii]

I actually dont understand why science is demonized and why it is Science v Theology, and not a compliment of both. After all, we use science everyday...the satellite to give us TV, the microwave we use, and the smartphone that we hold in our hand.... they wouldnt have existed without science - so why is that such a threat to our belief in God. I can happily reconcile the two.

 

[Zoii]

 

[Dave-W]

I actually dont understand why science is demonized and why it is Science v Theology, and not a compliment of both. After all, we use science everyday...the satellite to give us TV, the microwave we use, and the smartphone that we hold in our hand.... they wouldnt have existed without science - so why is that such a threat to our belief in God. I can happily reconcile the two.

Science has its place and realm and theological beliefs have a different place. Those who recognize that can integrate the 2. But many on both sides of the issue try to stretch their side to cover both. Science keeps trying to study the genesis of the universe and life without God and religionists keep trying to limit physical reality to the bible.

Each sees the other as a threat.

 

[Greg J.]

I actually dont understand why science is demonized and why it is Science v Theology, and not a compliment of both. After all, we use science everyday...the satellite to give us TV, the microwave we use, and the smartphone that we hold in our hand.... they wouldnt have existed without science - so why is that such a threat to our belief in God. I can happily reconcile the two.

Same here. I think it is because emphasizing science is a symptom of people who want to understand or control the world around them—and can (it seems like it used to be to understand, but now that we "know so much" is seems to be to control). Such people have time and energy to follow their imagination or curiosity and dissect what they observe or what ideas observation has resulted in. On the other hand, if you have had no control over your life, and it is painful or uncomfortable, you're probably predisposed to seek rescue from that condition by something greater than yourself (God, aliens, self-help books, religions, or anything one objectifies). Everyone has an uncomfortable or painful God-shaped vacuum they are driven to fill. I think we're directed by what methods we believe are available and may satisfy.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

summarized here: "they seem to cut off other options to even look!"
Yes, a multitude of business, churches, schools, and so forth do not even think of obeying God, nor even of seeking His Way.
Did God then abandon all men, and say POOF! You're all on your own ?
No, of course not.

Did God step in and solve the problems for everyone who trusted those men or those groups that were in authority and were not doing as God says to do ?

Slowly and painstakingly and painfully, yes - IF those people seeking God prayed and trusted in HIM when they realized trusting in man was ve dephwrong.(God actually curses those who put their trust in the flesh, including "some trust in horses, and some in chariots"(the nations military might),

BUT (the answer from God) We have depended on the NAME OF THE LORD OUR GOD. (rare these days, rare through most of history).....

So the remnent of GOD, Jesus seeks out and finds and gives peace and joy and salvation to, all those who trust and rely on Him and not on man.

When a whole group trusts in God, the observations of that group are astonishing to say the least! Everyone is encouraged, healed, uplifted, joyful, joyous, enlightened, transfigured(humanly speaking), "fit properly in place as GOD HIMSELF orchestrates fitting the LIVING STONES T O G E T H E R

Most Available "Evidence" >> Corrie ten Boom
All her life, all her testimony. And her family/ group/ who saved hundred of Jews and Christians during the nazi atrocities....

QUOTE="mkgal1, post: 71103456, member: 193242"]So....what's left? It seems the only authority they teach can be trusted in those that are in their small group. Truth should be the same truth no matter where it's found (like the golden ratio)....we should see a pattern (but they seem to cut off other options to even look!).

Thoughts?[/QUOTE

QUOTE="mkgal1, post: 71104304, member: 193242"]Right....but the problem is (as I am seeing it)....we all know there're several different interpretations of Scripture....so when other "avenues" are dismissed (or even demonized)..then we're only left with ONE person's narrow interpretation (we're even advised not to "go your own way" or "trust your own emotions"). Do you see what I mean? It's a cult-like tactic...that we can't trust anyone but the one "authority" to lead us into truth.[/QUOTE

QUOTE="Maria.V.H, post: 71141173, member: 394977"]I hope so, but it seems to me it will not be in this life, but the life beyond. I´m a little strange i believe we are here alone, that God does not interfear much in our lives, to get us to understand and take responsibility for the life we have received, to become wiser. But i could be wrong.... Blessings to you too[/QUOTE

 

[Fantine]

First of all, I know that none of us--in this or future generations--will every understand the mystery of God completely, no matter how great our body of knowledge becomes.

But secondly, I know that Biblical accounts are so far removed from our knowledge of the world today that my faith could only stay alive through the very strictest compartmentalization and ignoring science and technology.

My knowledge of science, rudimentary as it is (I studied liberal arts in college), has made me see the awesome wonder of God in entirely new dimensions which don't always fit in to the neat little stories of the Pentateuch.

Saints like Hildegarde of Bingen--scientist and mystic--are wonderful role models for us today. We need not fear scientific knowledge. We need not ignore scientific facts. We just need to "leave room for the Holy Spirit" who will lead us in the right direction.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Don Quixote >

"reason is the greatest enemy to be slain"

Jesus > "man in His wisdom and knowledge worshiped the creation and ignored the Creator."
This is urgent, important to remember, as Jesus says.
Faith is destroyed or prevented by man's "reason" , man's "wisdom", and man's "knowledge"
Jesus> "The natural man cannot understand anything of spirit"
QUOTE=]But secondly, I know that Biblical accounts are so far removed from our knowledge of the world today that my faith could only stay alive through the very strictest compartmentalization and ignoring science and technology.[/QUOTE
Jesus> "Whoever loves the world, and the things of the world, cannot be God's Friend."
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"God is a God of order"

Yes, "all creation shows the glory of God, the evidence that God created all things. No one has an excuse not to believe in the Creator, because His work is evident everywhere in heaven and on earth."
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Most all the world has rejected God's design, plan, and presence.
"we see" God's Creation by His Grace, sheer grace; so many never do.

pattern we see in creation:

a small insight into God's "order" in creation, if we want to make that claim at all

We boast in God, in Christ, yes! He is great and worthy to be PRAISED !

Truth should be the same truth no matter where it's found (like the golden ratio)....we should see a pattern

Truth is the same , unchanged, for all time. Unaffected by society, culture, man, science, or anything temporal.
Jesus is Truth. Jesus is the Way. Jesus is the Life. All men who come to God come through Him, and only through Him.
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(but they seem to cut off other options to even look!).

The devil; evil men; wicked men; "cut off other options to even look!" Yes.
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the authority of Scripture, and how we read, understand and apply it.

Amein. God's Authority He Gave to us.
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we can't trust anyone

It steals something from us that I believe God intended as a means to communicate to us.

Amein: "they do cut off other options to even look!" (Don't give up, see below)
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...and we miss out on things that are so beautiful

The devil comes only to kill, to steal, and to destroy. Billions of souls miss out on beautiful Salvation , Jesus Messiah.
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I actually dont understand why science* is .....- so why is that such a threat to our belief in God....

It(man's ways) cannot be reconciled with Jesus, faith, God's Way.

That is why Don Quizote sought to destroy the windmills (man's reason).
Man's reason prevented man from finding or even from seeking God.
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Everyone has an uncomfortable or painful God-shaped vacuum they are driven to fill.

Finally,
yes.
Eternity is in man's heart. God put it there. Only God can Heal.

God knew this before Creating the earth .
God knew all this before Creating man.

God Planned Everything Perfectly, Simply. Man came up with many devices. Man messed up.

God Provides a Way, Truth, back to Life. His Name is Jesus. He is the Way.

God DELIGHTS to save those who are willing to trust Him.
God Dances and Sings over us with JOY! When we trust Him.

Trust Him.

 

[Paidiske]

I don't believe that it's impossible to reconcile science with God's way. Our reason is part of God's good creation of us, after all. The thing is to be able to understand both rightly, and then they don't conflict.

 

[Dave-W]

I don't believe that it's impossible to reconcile science with God's way. Our reason is part of God's good creation of us, after all. The thing is to be able to understand both rightly, and then they don't conflict.

There is reason; and then there is reason. The logic framework of the bible is DIFFERENT than that of Aristotelian logic that most of us are familiar with.

Did you study Logic in seminary - specifically Hebrew Block Logic?
aka Adductive reasoning?

http://theologylog.8.forumer.com/a/hebrew-block-logic_post8.html
2 Adductive Logic in Torah
BLOCK LOGIC (An Introduction to Hebrew Thought) - Sermon Index
Judaic Logic

 

[mkgal1]

Saints like Hildegarde of Bingen--scientist and mystic--are wonderful role models for us today.

I'm going to look her up right now (thanks!).

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Realize they may not be a good role model at all.
Test everything.

 

[mkgal1]

Realize they may not be a good role model at all.
Test everything.

Why would you say that? And what are you using as a "test"?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Why would you say that? And what are you using as a "test"?

In obedience to God's Word, as God Says, both the warnings to "beware" as well as "Even if I (the Apostle Paul)
or an "angel of light"
should appear and deliver a message ,
IF
it disagrees or is contrary with God's Message/Word already delivered known and true,
then do not accept it.

 

[mkgal1]

In obedience to God's Word, as God Says, both the warnings to "beware" as well as "Even if I (the Apostle Paul)
or an "angel of light"
should appear and deliver a message ,
IF
it disagrees or is contrary with God's Message/Word already delivered known and true,
then do not accept it.

Well......I see nothing (so far)from Hildegard of Bingen that "disagrees or is contrary with God's message/Word"....in fact, this is along the lines of my OP from her:

Glance at the sun. See the moon and the stars.
Gaze at the beauty of earth’s greenings.
Now, think.
What delight God gives to humankind
with all these things .
All nature is at the disposal of humankind.
We are to work with it. For
without we cannot survive.

Hildegard of Bingen

.....and I wrote earlier.....to dismiss thoughts like hers is missing out on a huge part of the glory of God (in my view).