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What are your objections to the ELCA?

Discussion in 'LCMS / WELS / ELS / LCC' started by Soma Seer, Sep 29, 2014.

  1. Soma Seer

    Soma Seer Guest

    I would like to know people's reason(s) for disliking--though maybe that's too strong a word--the ELCA.

    Thank you,

    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. MarkRohfrietsch

    MarkRohfrietsch Unapologetic Apologist Supporter

    Hi Soma Seer:wave:,

    The root of the theological issues that have caused derision between the more liberal Synods and the Confessional Synods. is Biblical Interpretation. The Liberal Synods use an historical critical interpretation (that was then; this is no); whereas the Confessional Churches look only to Scripture to interpret Scripture and rely on Scripture to give Context to Scripture.

    The "that was then, this is now" approach to reading Scripture allows them to make the judgement call and negate a number of things that God has mandated in Scripture. Where do I start?

    • Ordination of female clergy and bishops.
    • The solemnization of same sex marriages.
    • The ordination of Clergy in active same sex relationships.
    • Fellowship agreements with other Churches who's doctrine is at odds with even their very liberal interpretations.
    • Open Communion.
    • Pro-choice and even pro abortion positions.
    All of these things Scripture either speaks directly against, or the literal and contextual interpretation of Scripture leads one to conclude that all these things are contrary to God's Divine Will.

    I hope that this explains things a bit more clearly. Again, any questions, fire away!

    God bless.
  3. Soma Seer

    Soma Seer Guest

    Thank you for pointing out the key objections--if not every objection--that the other branches of Lutheranism have to the ELCA.

    BTW, I didn't italicize any of your statements, but some of them appear italicized--at least to me--in the quoted portion included in my response. Very odd.

  4. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

    Mark gave a pretty good list. I would share in objecting to all those things, but I'll also add a few comments and my main concern.

    In college I had Christian friends of all different stripes. I never judged their salvic status. I was never opposed to hanging out with them. I attended their Bible studies, their song sessions, their picnics, etc. But I didn't worship with them because I didn't consider their services to be a real "church".

    Where do you draw the line? It's easy to say you wouldn't worship with Muslims. Maybe it's even easy for you to say you wouldn't worship with JWs or Mormons. But what about Catholics? Or Methodists? Or others who call themselves Lutherans? What constitutes worship? That's a long conversation, but my main concern with the ELCA is their softening on the resurrection.

    Gnesio ☩ Lutheran Theology ☩ ELCA & LCMS

    The ELCA needs to speak for itself, so I won't claim the above website has everything right. But at the very least their theology seems to have become very confused. Look at the section on the resurrection of Jesus. That first statement should turn you away: "The resurrection for the ELCA does not necessarily have to be a historic event, but something of faith."

    Of course Biblical narratives need not be subject to human definitions of historicity, but as Christians we must believe the resurrection was real and not just some kind of spiritual reawakening. If we don't believe the resurrection really happened, then as Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15, we are to be pitied.

    The ELCA may be connected to some cultural rituals of Jesus of Nazareth, but I'm not sure they're worshipping the Christ anymore.
  5. Soma Seer

    Soma Seer Guest

    I intend to read the entire piece. :) Thank you for sharing it.

  6. LilLamb219

    LilLamb219 The Lamb is gone Supporter

    Although I disagree with the ELCA as a whole, I do have to say that there are still some very confessional, liturgical churches within the synod. :)
  7. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

    Absolutely ... and some of the ELCA people in this forum seem to be as well. That's why I tried to note how confusing the ELCA is to me.

    My church is LCMS, but our pastor used to be an ELCA member. He has told us that he feels it was the leadership of the ELCA that betrayed them. That many members remain faithful, and the leadership changed the structure of the synod over their objections.

    So ... it would be nice if those faithful churches would come join us.
  8. LizaMarie

    LizaMarie Newbie

    I used to belong to an ELCA church many years ago, when I lived in a different state.
    The main and big reason was the pro choice/pro abortion position (put on paper in 1991)
    Back then there was also discussion about ordaining practicing homosexuals and blessing of gay unions, which have since come to pass. I saw the handwriting on the wall.
    That's the main(2) reasons. We must be compassionate and share the gospel with those who have SSA but the Bible is quite clear that marriage is between one man and one woman.
    I belonged to two different ELCA churches and in the first one the pastor was quite conservative so what is posted in the above is correct, there are still many conservative pastors in the ELCA
  9. LizaMarie

    LizaMarie Newbie

    I saw some seeds of this in my last ELCA church, while attending a Bible study.
    The ELCA church I attended had a beautiful liturgy and weekly communion so I do miss that.
  10. annafullofgrace

    annafullofgrace His blood sets me free.

    This. :)
  11. Taom Ben Robert

    Taom Ben Robert Roman Catholic

    United States
    I'm a member of nalc , a conservative Lutheran church, I oppose gay marriage , liberal theology , and abortion , but I have no problem with women pastors and fellowship with other believers, the Pauline epistles even say to fellowship with believers who disagree with you , the reformer Martin Luther had a good friendship with the Anglicans and reformed such as John Calvin and later with Zwingli , so what's the problem ?
  12. filosofer

    filosofer Senior Veteran

    Howdy. A couple corrections:

    1) Zwingli died in 1531, long before there was contact between Lutherans and Calvinists.

    2) Luther had a major problem with Zwingli and his theology (read “This is My Body” by Hermann Sasse to get the extent of the disagreements).

    Also, Luther would resonate closer to Calvin on several topics (total depravity, etc.), but he objected to limited atonement, double predestination, etc. So they were not that close in doctrine, because each of these revealed substantial underlying theological contradictions. That is why in the Formula of Concord, Article VII (Lord’s Supper) and the disputes with the “Reformed” led to Article VIII (Person of Christ) because if you misunderstand the Lord’s Supper, it necessarily leads to a false understanding of the person of Christ.