What are worse? Atheist or Christian sinners?

[sandwiches]

I would prefer not be covered in blood, but thanks for offering.

What is Christianity's obsession with blood, sacrifice, retribution, and suffering to get a point across?

 

[CaliforniaSun]

What is Christianity's obsession with blood, sacrifice, retribution, and suffering to get a point across?

The who idea of having to kill someone in order to redeem someone, is so archaic. I suppose they feel the whole idea of having to kill something will have a sobering effect on an individual, that is to say, guilt them into behaving a certain way.

 

[Zaac]

You guys should know this much. Zaac rejects the very idea of being Non-Christian.

You guys should know this much: I am very well capable of speaking for myself, and thus do not need Skavau to speak for me.

And why would I reject the idea of being a non-Christian? Non-Christians exist. If they didn't exist God's word wouldn't speak of them spending an eternity in the Lake of Fire.

He views all atheists as liars regarding their atheism.

I view atheists as liars because they say there is no God, but God Himself says He has shown them what may be known of Himself.

So either God is a liar or all atheists are liars. And God is not a liar.

By extension, he views all theistic Non-Christians are liars as well. He believes only in what God says and plans.

Yep. That's why God is God and man is not.

He views civilization and humanity itself by extension as nothing more than a means to Gods end.

Yep. The Creator is supposed to be exalted, not the created.

He rejects empiricism, rationalism and any ideology or world-view that does not match in accordance with the Bible.

I sure do reject such things.

He literally does not care about humanity or the world he lives in.

And that would be another lie told by you. If I didn't care about humanity, I wouldn't preach God's Gospel.

 

[Zaac]

Love is the one thing I have never seen in any of your posts. You say you speak in love, but you have never, ever demonstrated this.

Perhaps you come across better in real life, but here when its just text, you come across as a arogant, cold, and completely un-appealing.

I've always said, if you need someone to stroke your back and tell your itching ears what they want to hear, you'd do better conversing with one of those liberal people who tell you what you want to hear.

There simply is no polite, appealing way to tell you that if you reject Jesus Christ, that you're going to spend an eternity in the Lake of Fire.

The problem again with atheist on this board is that you're all always talking about that love is not demonstrated. But you have to know the love of Christ to recognize the love of Christ. As such, I don't expect anyone who does not submit to Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior to accept the love in which His truth is delivered

 

[Skavau]

You guys should know this much: I am very well capable of speaking for myself, and thus do not need Skavau to speak for me.

Sure. But I was saying what you haven't said and it is very important for anyone conversing or debating with you on this point or any similar point to know what you really think on this topic.

And why would I reject the idea of being a non-Christian? Non-Christians exist. If they didn't exist God's word wouldn't speak of them spending an eternity in the Lake of Fire.

We obviously have some semantic misunderstanding here. When I say you reject the very idea of being Non-Christian you refuse to or are incapable of disposing of the idea that it is possible to not know that Christianity is true (and therefore necessarily label all Non-Christians who claim so as inherent liars).

I view atheists as liars because they say there is no God, but God Himself says He has shown them what may be known of Himself.

That was my point. You do view us as liars.

So either God is a liar or all atheists are liars. And God is not a liar.

Or a third option: What you believe is not rooted in reality and there is no God to say anything like that.

And that would be another lie told by you. If I didn't care about humanity, I wouldn't preach God's Gospel.

Seeing as everything else I said you concurred with (rather cheerfully in one instance) I'll simply comment on this part here. The only reason you do care for humanity is because you believe that God directs you to do so or allows you to do so. That is to say that if God (and I know and don't care that you don't deal in hypotheticals) was to impose a non-discriminate genocide upon all of humanity you would not care and infact, approve of it. If God was to tell you to begin a campaign of murder against humanity you would do so, and with piety. The fact is that if you grant that life itself is nothing more than what God demands at all and any cost then you effectively reduce everything to perpetual obedience to authority. The most disturbing thing of all of this is that you would if given a choice between following God's orders and ending suffering always pick God's orders.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

You guys should know this much: I am very well capable of speaking for myself, and thus do not need Skavau to speak for me.

And why would I reject the idea of being a non-Christian? Non-Christians exist. If they didn't exist God's word wouldn't speak of them spending an eternity in the Lake of Fire.



I view atheists as liars because they say there is no God, but God Himself says He has shown them what may be known of Himself.

So either God is a liar or all atheists are liars. And God is not a liar.



Yep. That's why God is God and man is not.



Yep. The Creator is supposed to be exalted, not the created.



I sure do reject such things.



And that would be another lie told by you. If I didn't care about humanity, I wouldn't preach God's Gospel.

Ironic then that you presume to know what atheists think and feel qualified to speak for them.

And what of the people who have looked at the claims that a god/s exists, but feel they haven't med their burden of proof? I am not so presumptuous to say unequivocally there is no god/s, but I can quite confidently say there is insufficient evidence for one.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

I've always said, if you need someone to stroke your back and tell your itching ears what they want to hear, you'd do better conversing with one of those liberal people who tell you what you want to hear.

There simply is no polite, appealing way to tell you that if you reject Jesus Christ, that you're going to spend an eternity in the Lake of Fire.

The problem again with atheist on this board is that you're all always talking about that love is not demonstrated. But you have to know the love of Christ to recognize the love of Christ. As such, I don't expect anyone who does not submit to Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior to accept the love in which His truth is delivered

And there simply is no polite way to say that I completely understand where you're coming from, but I don't accept a word of it.

 

[Zaac]

Zaac, it's your delivery, dude. Your delivery makes it hard to judge whether you're being hateful or loving. Actually, it doesn't make it hard to judge at all.

You know self, in the times that I have spoken to you directly, I would think that you would know different.

God's word simply says what it says. And there is no way to make atheists feel loved by telling them what they don't want to hear.

So do tell. What do you guys want to hear us say about God that's gonna make you feel loved?

 

[CaliforniaSun]

You know self, in the times that I have spoken to you directly, I would think that you would know different.

God's word simply says what it says. And there is no way to make atheists feel loved by telling them what they don't want to hear.

So do tell. What do you guys want to hear us say about God that's gonna make you feel loved?

I can't speak for selfinflikted, but I don't need to be loved by posters on an internetz forums.

 

[Zaac]

Sure. But I was saying what you haven't said and it is very important for anyone conversing or debating with you on this point or any similar point to know what you really think on this topic.

Gosh if you want to know, what I know on these matters, it's written down in God's word.

We obviously have some semantic misunderstanding here. When I say you reject the very idea of being Non-Christian you refuse to or are incapable of disposing of the idea that it is possible to not know that Christianity is true (and therefore necessarily label all Non-Christians who claim so as inherent liars).

Sure do because God Himself says He has shown you differently.

That was my point. You do view us as liars.

If an atheist says there is no God, and God says that HE has shown the atheist that there is, then, yes that would make the atheist a liar.

Or a third option: What you believe is not rooted in reality and there is no God to say anything like that.

It's rooted in God.

Seeing as everything else I said you concurred with (rather cheerfully in one instance) I'll simply comment on this part here. The only reason you do care for humanity is because you believe that God directs you to do so or allows you to do so. That is to say that if God (and I know and don't care that you don't deal in hypotheticals) was to impose a non-discriminate genocide upon all of humanity you would not care and infact, approve of it.

There's an entire nother thread about the Potter and the clay on here. God can do what He wants with His creation. You don't have to like it. But that's the way it is.

If God was to tell you to begin a campaign of murder against humanity you would do so, and with piety.

The fact is that if you grant that life itself is nothing more than what God demands at all and any cost then you effectively reduce everything to perpetual obedience to authority. The most disturbing thing of all of this is that you would if given a choice between following God's orders and ending suffering always pick God's orders.

The quicker every atheist realizes that this world is about GOD and not man, the more time the atheist may have to submit himself to the authority of Jesus Christ and not have to spend an eternity in the Lake of Fire.

 

[Zaac]

Ironic then that you presume to know what atheists think and feel qualified to speak for them.

So speak for yourself. Do atheists feel there is a GOD?

And what of the people who have looked at the claims that a god/s exists, but feel they haven't med their burden of proof?

Then that person will still spend an eternity in the Lake of Fire because GOD says He has made Himself known and thus you have no excuse. And if the burden of proof that God has given is enough for HIM, then it's enough for me to preach it as enough and repeat that such a person is CHOOSING to spend an eternity in the Lake of Fire.

I am not so presumptuous to say unequivocally there is no god/s, but I can quite confidently say there is insufficient evidence for one.

California, I can quite comfortably say that GOD disagrees with you because His word says otherwise.

 

[Zaac]

And there simply is no polite way to say that I completely understand where you're coming from, but I don't accept a word of it.

I know you do as I know a lot of other folks on here do also. But what you just said does nothing but confirm what GOD has already said.

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness Romans 1:18

 

[Zaac]

I can't speak for selfinflikted, but I don't need to be loved by posters on an internetz forums.

Again, that's understandable. But you can't dictate whether or not I love you with the love of Christ.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

So speak for yourself. Do atheists feel there is a GOD?



Then that person will still spend an eternity in the Lake of Fire because GOD says He has made Himself known and thus you have no excuse. And if the burden of proof that God has given is enough for HIM, then it's enough for me to preach it as enough and repeat that such a person is CHOOSING to spend an eternity in the Lake of Fire.



California, I can quite comfortably say that GOD disagrees with you because His word says otherwise.

As I said, I understand where you're coming from. I understand the Bible completely, it's that I don't find it's claims credible. Believers have failed to meet their burden of proof.

You can continue preaching with the fervor of a used car salesman all you want, but I am not persuaded in the least. Before you can even get to your claims of knowing what god says, and speaking on his/her behalf you first have to sufficiently support your claim that a god/s exist.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

Again, that's understandable. But you can't dictate whether or not I love you with the love of Christ.

What gave you the impression I was trying to dictate anything?

 

[Skavau]

Gosh if you want to know, what I know on these matters, it's written down in God's word.

So you keep saying.

Sure do because God Himself says He has shown you differently.

So you concur then. Again.

If an atheist says there is no God, and God says that HE has shown the atheist that there is, then, yes that would make the atheist a liar.

So you concur then. Again. Everything I said regarding what you think turned out to be true.

It's rooted in God.

If God exists and if the Bible is inspired by God.

There's an entire nother thread about the Potter and the clay on here. God can do what He wants with His creation. You don't have to like it. But that's the way it is.

Yes I know. I have many posts in that thread and I already know your masochism on this topic. You hold that God can do what he wants, whenever he wants to what he wants. Your assessment on it makes a complete mockery of morality and life itself.

The quicker every atheist realizes that this world is about GOD and not man, the more time the atheist may have to submit himself to the authority of Jesus Christ and not have to spend an eternity in the Lake of Fire.

I haven't 'realised' anything. I am not sure to whether or not you noticed that my observation on this point was meant to an assessment of your beliefs and how absolutely anti-humanitarian they are. But again, by conceding you demonstrated my point.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

I know you do as I know a lot of other folks on here do also. But what you just said does nothing but confirm what GOD has already said.

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness Romans 1:18

Actually, all we know is Paul wrote this, not god.

 

[Zaac]

As I said, I understand where you're coming from. I understand the Bible completely, it's that I don't find it's claims credible. Believers have failed to meet their burden of proof.

Believers don't have a burden of proof. God reveals HIMSELF and says that He has alrady made Himself known to you but that YOU are supressing this truth because of your own unrighteousness.

You can continue preaching with the fervor of a used car salesman all you want, but I am not persuaded in the least.

I can't do anything about that. All I can do is what God says to do and let the Holy Spirit be the Holy Spirit.

Before you can even get to your claims of knowing what god says, and speaking on his/her behalf you first have to sufficiently support your claim that a god/s exist.

Again, nice attempt to try to frame the conversation. But God's existence does not rest upon me proving that He exists. He says what He says, and folks either accept it or they don't and spend an eternity in the Lake of Fire.

 

[Zaac]

What gave you the impression I was trying to dictate anything?

I said you "can't". I didn't say you were trying to.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

Believers don't have a burden of proof. God reveals HIMSELF and says that He has alrady made Himself known to you but that YOU are supressing this truth because of your own unrighteousness.



I can't do anything about that. All I can do is what God says to do and let the Holy Spirit be the Holy Spirit.



Again, nice attempt to try to frame the conversation. But God's existence does not rest upon me proving that He exists. He says what He says, and folks either accept it or they don't and spend an eternity in the Lake of Fire.

Hyperbolic woo woo.

Believers make the claim that god/s exist. Furthermore, they claim to have intimate relationships with him/her, and that they are also qualified to tell everybody what he/she wants. As I've said, before you can get to the point that your god is the true one, you have to first proffer evidence that one exists.

As the saying goes, claims require proof, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Until then, I will remain in the default position.