What are the explanations for God's anger and wrath...?

Neogaia777

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Post #7 to Post #11

How to walk in the spirit?

Post #7, Through and ending on Post #11 of this thread


Post #11

(speaking of God's anger and wrath and acts, mainly in the OT)

That is one of things about God that stumbles many and keeps them from believing in him as a holy God...

There are explanations for this, but many don't care to want to hear it/them...

Sad,

God Bless!


So, What are the explanations for God's anger and wrath, and righteous, (and some would argue unrighteous) acts, basically...?

Comments...?

God Bless!
 

TuxAme

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All of God's dealings with our fallen race are directed towards our salvation. Particularly in the Old Testament, sins were being committed and people weren't repentant for them. If people aren't willing to approach God to reconcile themselves to Him on their own in His "gentleness", He has to guide them towards it any way He can. It's so incredibly important to God that we all spend eternity with Him that He is willing to do whatever it takes to put a soul back on the right path.
 
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akaDaScribe

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This is the response I posted before, but was off topic, so posting here.

Well, he didn't want the minds of the people to be infected. And when they did leave some of the people in the land, those people ended up corrupting Israel with their false gods and Israel ended up falling into the same wicked sins as the people who were destroyed because of their wickedness. So history proved He was right. But His judgement is a terrible thing.

I once had a relative who said to me, "How do you feel about serving a God that committed genocide to remove the people from the land of Israel?"

I responded, "Genocide? He took out the whole planet. He is who He is and I'm on his side. Who's side are you on?"
 
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Neogaia777

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Edit: Oops, wrong thread. Let me find something relevant to say...

Don't you think this important to know and figure out though, I mean it is one of the main, major arguments against, not necessarily a belief in God, but if there is a God, and he is the God described in the OT, then he must not be a very good or holy God, (many say and conclude)...

We must fight against this, IMO...

It does not have to be an appeal to emotion or emotional, I have a few ideas but want to see what others have to say on this first...

God Bless!
 
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TuxAme

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Don't you think this important to know and figure out though, I mean it is one of the main, major arguments against, not necessarily a belief in God, but if there is a God, and he is the God described in the OT, then he must not be a very good or holy God, (many say and conclude)...

We must fight against this, IMO...

It does not have to be an appeal to emotion or emotional, I have a few ideas but want to see what others have to say on this first...

God Bless!
Ignore that message. I thought I was responding to a different thread (another of yours, though). I updated my post to answer this thread.
 
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Neogaia777

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This is the response I posted before, but was off topic, so posting here.

Well, he didn't want the minds of the people to be infected. And when they did leave some of the people in the land, those people ended up corrupting Israel with their false gods and Israel ended up falling into the same wicked sins as the people who were destroyed because of their wickedness. So history proved He was right. But His judgement is a terrible thing.

I once had a relative who said to me, "How do you feel about serving a God that committed genocide to remove the people from the land of Israel?"

I responded, "Genocide? He took out the whole planet. He is who He is and I'm on his side. Who's side are you on?"
I'm on the side of truth, other than that, I don't take sides...

While I don't have this completely figured out yet, I think it is important that we do...

Ideas like, YHWH is actually God, the Son, or a young God, in the OT for starters, is a young God, or is Jesus, is one possibility...? But then, some would say, "so, your saying he was wrong or in error then, or inexperienced or immature or whatever, or did not know everything (at that time)...

To which I would respond, I don't know yet and am not going to draw any conclusions on that for sure yet, I just know that there are some very logical explanations, which I do not fully know yet, or have figured out completely yet...

Care to help anyone...?

God Bless!
 
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drjean

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This is the response I posted before, but was off topic, so posting here.

Well, he didn't want the minds of the people to be infected. And when they did leave some of the people in the land, those people ended up corrupting Israel with their false gods and Israel ended up falling into the same wicked sins as the people who were destroyed because of their wickedness. So history proved He was right. But His judgement is a terrible thing.

I once had a relative who said to me, "How do you feel about serving a God that committed genocide to remove the people from the land of Israel?"

I responded, "Genocide? He took out the whole planet. He is who He is and I'm on his side. Who's side are you on?"

His judgment is not "terrible" in the sense of being inherently bad...but being something you do not want to experience "terrible" right?

I'm curious as to the "idea of God committing genocide "to remove the people from the land of Israel".... what is the reference to this?

I agree with you. Romans 9:15 says, "For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION."

People tend to look at God's ways via human minds. However we must realize that God has no obligation to show mercy. Yet, we all deserve justice. But He is merciful and compassionate upon many trillions of us. :)
 
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Neogaia777

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Gods' perspective on killing an death may be much, much, very different from ours, since they all go back to him for judgment, and they each have the possibility of getting to be in a much better life, a "more real life" maybe, then they had prior to that, or previously, in this one...

He may actually may have been putting and end to those whom he killed or destoyed's suffering and misery and anguish (that they brought upon themselves), they may have been completely lost and without any hope (of a good decent life) if God did not do this...
 
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God bless Joshua

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"How do you feel about serving a God that committed genocide to remove the people from the land of Israel?"
In the OT Time God was acting as the President as well as the Army General who must eliminate all lethal threats from wicked nations toward the Hebrew, God owned the whole earth and nations must obey.
 
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akaDaScribe

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I would respond,

If you think wiping out people who are burning their own children alive to sacrifice to false gods is evil, I have to disagree with you. If they were anything like the satanic groups that do all kinds of deranged things to children, each other, and with animals and the dead, and you think it was wrong to destroy them, i disagree. If you think allowing that kind of evil to go unanswered is holy, I disagree.
 
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Neogaia777

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I would respond,

If you think wiping out people who are burning their own children alive to sacrifice to false gods is evil, I have to disagree with you. If they were anything like the satanic groups that do all kinds of deranged things to children, each other, and with animals and the dead, and you think it was wrong to destroy them, i disagree. If you think allowing that kind of evil to go unanswered is holy, I disagree.
Right, they were completely lost and without any hope unless God did kill or eliminate them, basically...

Is one other possibility...?

God Bless!
 
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disciple Clint

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It is important to remember that while the God of the O.T. is exactly the same as the God of the N.T. The conditions at the times were very different. In the O.T. God is working on building a nation of believers out of people who have a slave mentality and have been exposed to the worship of false gods. His methods may seem harsh but they are justified by the conditions. He has to convince these people that He is the true God and that He is all powerful and deserving of their respect and worship. He has to establish worship practices, laws and a government. He also has to build the cohesion and confidence of the people so that they can claim the promise land and defend it. Blessings Clint
 
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akaDaScribe

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His judgment is not "terrible" in the sense of being inherently bad...but being something you do not want to experience "terrible" right?

I'm curious as to the "idea of God committing genocide "to remove the people from the land of Israel".... what is the reference to this?

I agree with you. Romans 9:15 says, "For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION."

People tend to look at God's ways via human minds. However we must realize that God has no obligation to show mercy. Yet, we all deserve justice. But He is merciful and compassionate upon many trillions of us. :)

By terrible i mean terrifying. If you go back and read Deuteronomy, Moses tells hem to kill everyone and everything basically. This did include man, woman, child, and I'm pretty sure the animals as well. He said to leave none.

They did not utterly the people though. As a result, they ended up following their gods and started practicing the same sick behaviors as the people they were supposed to destroy.

It would be like removing cancer, but leaving some there. Harsh, but true.
 
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Neogaia777

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It is important to remember that while the God of the O.T. is exactly the same as the God of the N.T. The conditions at the times were very different. In the O.T. God is working on building a nation of believers out of people who have a slave mentality and have been exposed to the worship of false gods. His methods may seem harsh but they are justified by the conditions. He has to convince these people that He is the true God and that He is all powerful and deserving of their respect and worship. He has to establish worship practices, laws and a government. He also has to build the cohesion and confidence of the people so that they can claim the promise land and defend it. Blessings Clint
They were lost and without any hope and very, very deep in sin... So deep, that the only option left was eliminating them, and sending them all back to him (God) for judging... But it was not just the (adult) humans, but the spirit in and of them, and with them, in that land... Which meant plants, animals, buildings, cities and towns, yes even young ones, or babes, or women and children... The entire land was without any hope left at all and had to "cleansed" to get rid of the fallen spirit in and of that land and in them to eliminate the true source of the/that problem as well...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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They were lost and without any hope and very, very deep in sin... So deep, that the only option left was eliminating them, and sending them all back to him (God) for judging... But it was not just the (adult) humans, but the spirit in and of them, and with them, in that land... Which meant plants, animals, buildings, cities and towns, yes even young ones, or babes, or women and children... The entire land was without any hope left at all and had to "cleansed" to get rid of the fallen spirit in and of that land and in them to eliminate the true source of the/that problem as well...

God Bless!
But, it didn't work...? Why didn't it work...?

And if he is God, then wouldn't he know it wouldn't work...? So, why did he do it...?

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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It didn't work because they did not completely wipe them out.
Because the humans did not completely do as he (God) commanded...?

But, wouldn't he have known that, that they were not going to fully, completely obey...?

So, why did he (God) do it, or command it...? To put it on record for us...? Why though...? What are we supposed to get from that...?

God Bless!
 
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dreadnought

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Post #7 to Post #11

How to walk in the spirit?

Post #7, Through and ending on Post #11 of this thread


Post #11

(speaking of God's anger and wrath and acts, mainly in the OT)

That is one of things about God that stumbles many and keeps them from believing in him as a holy God...

There are explanations for this, but many don't care to want to hear it/them...

Sad,

God Bless!


So, What are the explanations for God's anger and wrath, and righteous, (and some would argue unrighteous) acts, basically...?

Comments...?

God Bless!
We all need to be chastised sometimes. Otherwise we'd get into a lot of trouble.
 
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drjean

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While I agree why it "didn't work" I feel I would be remiss if I didn't remind us here that GOD knew that the enemy would return---this is satan's domain and he caused the evil acts and could (and did) again. That is why at the end of the Book we see where God deals with him once and for all!


AND

Sometimes God gives us directions just to see if we will choose to do right. While HE KNOWS which way we will choose.. He does not cause it. I often use the analogy of a mother/father and an 8 year old son... donning his rain coat to go outside and play you KNOW he will jump into the puddles. However, your knowing that is what he will do does not cause him to do it. ;)

The opportunities to do right are always left up to us, our choice. But until we get it "right" God continues to allow the same type of opportunities.

Guess I've rambled enough. :blush:
 
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Ron Gurley

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Answer: God is perfectly JUST and renders JUDGMENTS against the wicked who reject Him.

John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has eternal (spiritual) life;
(BELIEVERS)
but
he who does not obey the Son (to believe) will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
(UN-BELIEVERS)

From Genesis to Revelation, The TRI-UNE GOD is unchanging and unchangeable. BUT His plan and economy and method of how to deal with Man does change.

A perfectly SOVREIGN and JUST KING must render JUDGMENTS against Man and NATIONS (from infants to aged to animals) who have TOTALLY rejected Him and His perfect GOOD, His perfect WISDOM, His perfect provisions.

The TRI-UNE GOD is ALSO perfectly LOVING and MERCIFUL. His omniscience ensures that no one who spiritually believes in Him and accepts His calling and
accepts His loving gifts of undeserved Grace through spirit-led Faith receive salvation from what appears to Man as "atrocities" or "disasters".

JUST / justice = perfect respect and treatment of Man in accordance with perfect standards

Deuteronomy 32 (NASB)....The Song of Moses....God: ...all His ways are JUST
4 “The Rock!
His work is perfect,
For all His ways are JUST;
A God of faithfulness and without injustice,
Righteous and upright is He.

Genesis 18:25...God judges with perfect JUSTICE
Far be it from You to do such a thing,
to slay the righteous with the wicked,
so that the righteous and the wicked are treated alike.
Far be it from You!
Shall not the Judge of all the earth deal JUSTLY?”

It is perfectly JUST for those who reject GOD's provisions to suffer His righteous and perfect WRATH....BUT:
God is also perfectly Loving and Merciful.

Matthew 5...Jesus: Sermon on the Mount to the crowds
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
44 But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven;
for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good,
and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
47 If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
48 Therefore you are to be (TRY to be) perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

The "wrath of God" poured out on those who rejected Him ended at the Cross.

John 3:36...JOHN THE BAPTIZER
....He who believes in the Son has eternal life;
but he who does not obey the Son will not see life,
but the WRATH of God abides on him.”

Romans 5:9...
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be SAVED from the WRATH of God THROUGH Him.

Propititation: "satisfaction with action" ~= atonement

Romans 3....Justification / Redemption / PROPITIATION by Faith
21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested,
being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe;
for there is no distinction;
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
whom God displayed publicly as a PROPITIATION in His blood through faith.
This was to demonstrate His righteousness,
because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;
26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time,
so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Revelation 14: 9-12 (NASB)
“If anyone worships the beast (Satan) and his image (idol), and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,he also will drink of the wine of the WRATH of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he (unbeliever) will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever;
they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image,
and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
 
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