What are our opinions about this article?

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,550
20,063
41
Earth
✟1,464,127.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Wonderful to welcome the two children into the church!

(as for the bishop and the parents, I'm going to steer away from controversy)

except that baptism doesn’t end after the chrism dries. it’s a life of lived faith. it is impossible for two men who are in lust do that for a baby, unless they repent and live as brothers (which I don’t see happening). this act puts the salvation of all involved in jeopardy.
 
Upvote 0

Dorothea

One of God's handmaidens
Jul 10, 2007
21,553
3,534
Colorado Springs, Colorado
✟240,539.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I think he (Elpidophoros) will be deposed. It seems like the only correct course of action.
I hope so. He's walked the thin line of Church doctrine and crossed over too many times, imo.
 
Upvote 0
Oct 15, 2008
19,375
7,273
Central California
✟274,079.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
You steered into controversy by this very post.
Wonderful to welcome the two children into the church!

(as for the bishop and the parents, I'm going to steer away from controversy)
 
  • Agree
Reactions: rusmeister
Upvote 0

SamanthaAnastasia

Just a library lady
Dec 21, 2018
1,272
1,284
Earth
✟168,349.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
except that baptism doesn’t end after the chrism dries. it’s a life of lived faith. it is impossible for two men who are in lust do that for a baby, unless they repent and live as brothers (which I don’t see happening). this act puts the salvation of all involved in jeopardy.
Question…If they wanted their babies to be baptized, could they just not have been there? Of course, they were and tons of pictures were taken. But hypothetically speaking. Because this may not have been the first time.
What if *under deception* the priest didn’t actually *know* the child’s “parents” (legally, secularly speaking) were two men (or two women for that matter).
The priest wouldn’t be in trouble? Because he didn’t know, correct? Because he was in ignorance of it. Because he himself was deceived.
I mean, in the situation with the two men being famous it isn’t hard to investigate that they were a “couple”.

I hope I made sense with this question.
 
Upvote 0

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,550
20,063
41
Earth
✟1,464,127.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Question…If they wanted their babies to be baptized, could they just not have been there? Of course, they were and tons of pictures were taken. But hypothetically speaking. Because this may not have been the first time.
What if *under deception* the priest didn’t actually *know* the child’s “parents” (legally, secularly speaking) were two men (or two women for that matter).
The priest wouldn’t be in trouble? Because he didn’t know, correct? Because he was in ignorance of it. Because he himself was deceived.
I mean, in the situation with the two men being famous it isn’t hard to investigate that they were a “couple”.

I hope I made sense with this question.

if the priest didn’t know, he’s a priest that doesn’t take being a priest seriously.
 
Upvote 0

dzheremi

Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian
Aug 27, 2014
13,558
13,713
✟429,174.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
Question…If they wanted their babies to be baptized, could they just not have been there? Of course, they were and tons of pictures were taken. But hypothetically speaking. Because this may not have been the first time.
What if *under deception* the priest didn’t actually *know* the child’s “parents” (legally, secularly speaking) were two men (or two women for that matter).
The priest wouldn’t be in trouble? Because he didn’t know, correct? Because he was in ignorance of it. Because he himself was deceived.
I mean, in the situation with the two men being famous it isn’t hard to investigate that they were a “couple”.

I hope I made sense with this question.

I'm just some guy, but it strikes me that the more you need to carve out exceptions via hypotheticals and whatnot, the higher the likelihood that you are probably talking about a situation that just shouldn't be in the first place.
 
Upvote 0

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,550
20,063
41
Earth
✟1,464,127.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
I'm just some guy, but it strikes me that the more you need to carve out exceptions via hypotheticals and whatnot, the higher the likelihood that you are probably talking about a situation that just shouldn't be in the first place.

amen
 
Upvote 0

Lukaris

Orthodox Christian
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2007
7,874
2,544
Pennsylvania, USA
✟752,922.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

E.C.

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2007
13,760
1,279
✟136,156.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
I think he (Elpidophoros) will be deposed. It seems like the only correct course of action.
We can only hope. First he says he supports Communion to non-Orthodox spouses of Orthodox Christians. Then he has that awful ugly "church" built at Ground Zero that looks like Zordon's Palace from Power Rangers. Then he takes in a defrocked priest of ROCOR and sets up a so-called Vicariate for them and tries to have the fraud made a bishop. Now he's lied to the entire Synod of the Church of Greece to baptize the surrogate child of a gay "couple" that will likely not raise the child in the Church anyway :rolleyes:


I remember Fr Anatole in Hawaii (ROCOR) telling some Russian parents that weren't practicing Orthodox and just wanted their kids baptized because "that's what Russians do", that it would be better for the salvation of the child to be raised without being baptized if they won't practice Orthodoxy than to have it baptized and not be faithful.
 
Upvote 0

rusmeister

A Russified American Orthodox Chestertonian
Dec 9, 2005
10,405
5,022
Eastern Europe
Visit site
✟434,922.00
Country
Montenegro
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
This whole affair is definitely a matter of deep concern. Personally, I might have originally posted less harshly but what really gets me about this is that it seems to have been underhanded and dishonest.


Σκληρή απάντηση του μητροπολίτη Γλυφάδας για τη βάπτιση στη Βουλιαγμένη - ORTHODOXIA INFO

link will translate of course

I feel sorry for the infants of course and believe God sees them as His baptized despite other issues.
Not translated for me. I get a beautiful Greek text. I can make out letters and some words, that’s about it.
 
Upvote 0

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,550
20,063
41
Earth
✟1,464,127.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
I remember Fr Anatole in Hawaii (ROCOR) telling some Russian parents that weren't practicing Orthodox and just wanted their kids baptized because "that's what Russians do", that it would be better for the salvation of the child to be raised without being baptized if they won't practice Orthodoxy than to have it baptized and not be faithful.

I had to do that once. the mom clearly told me she wouldn’t bring the kid to Church.

then she got the grandmother involved….it wasn’t pretty.
 
Upvote 0

Lukaris

Orthodox Christian
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2007
7,874
2,544
Pennsylvania, USA
✟752,922.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

SamanthaAnastasia

Just a library lady
Dec 21, 2018
1,272
1,284
Earth
✟168,349.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
if the priest didn’t know, he’s a priest that doesn’t take being a priest seriously.
I'm just some guy, but it strikes me that the more you need to carve out exceptions via hypotheticals and whatnot, the higher the likelihood that you are probably talking about a situation that just shouldn't be in the first place.
Ah ok.
Sorry. I’m a new convert so I just was curious (if that’s the right word) about that hypothetical situation.
I don’t really know much about infant baptism.
I thought that it would be a good thing with the two infants being baptized but…now, not so much.
Boy oh boy, what a mess.
 
Upvote 0

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,550
20,063
41
Earth
✟1,464,127.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

rusmeister

A Russified American Orthodox Chestertonian
Dec 9, 2005
10,405
5,022
Eastern Europe
Visit site
✟434,922.00
Country
Montenegro
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
It seems like everyone and everything is falling away fast. Heck, I have my own recurring sins. It's not like "They're bad, but we're good".

I just see the whole attack on marriage and sexuality as having begun by attacking the sanctity of marriage. The Church has, whatever teachings or conceptions people have of it, de facto given way on the issue of divorce, and the social looseness on adultery and fornication, to say nothing of inappropriate contentography, have crept into the Church with members who see them as "not so bad". Thus we start by bashing sodomy, aka "homosexuality", but that is a few steps further down the road than the traditional "heterosexual" sins. We had to loosen up on them first before "same-sex couples" became even thinkable. Now we are objecting to THAT intrusion into the Church, but, because we won't hold the Christian ideal up as something we are all called to (either celibacy or one marriage lived in faithfulness for life), we must now tolerate these more degraded attacks.

That's why I have sounded like a broken record to some, who haven't seen that connection between the various sins as a chain or domino effect. We can't truly condemn them unless/until we start upholding the Christian ideal in our own lives and exhorting our brothers and sisters in the Church to do so secondarily. We all have sinned. The question is, what are we going to do now? Can we repent of our own sins, keep getting up after falling down, even at the eleventh hour? Can we, in our celibacy or second marriage or whatever after who knows how many sexual sins, from this moment live in faithfulness to it? Or in faithfulness to our first, if our spouse is divorced or deceased? We've lived as if we can't. Maybe we jolly well ought to try.
 
Upvote 0

Lukaris

Orthodox Christian
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2007
7,874
2,544
Pennsylvania, USA
✟752,922.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

rusmeister

A Russified American Orthodox Chestertonian
Dec 9, 2005
10,405
5,022
Eastern Europe
Visit site
✟434,922.00
Country
Montenegro
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0