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Featured What about those you have no talents?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by DamianWarS, Jun 27, 2018.

  1. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    Nobody ever talks about the steward who got five talents. He doubled the investment just as the guy with ten talents, but didn't get the same reward. Shouldn't he be annoyed?

    Well, no. It's important to note that the master apportioned the talents according to the abilities of the stewards. The master was attuned to their ability to succeed, and gave them no more and no less than the amount with which they could be successful.

    The five-talent steward (if his head was screwed on straight), probably thought, "Whew, I'm glad I didn't get ten talents. If I had to deal with that much, it would keep me awake at night!"
     
  2. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    we tend to like to fix people's theology before they become christian... it seems with Christ his first request was simply "follow me" and he worked on the other stuff as they followed him.
     
  3. Wordkeeper

    Wordkeeper Newbie

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    Luke 16
    1Now He was also saying to the disciples, “There was a rich man who had a manager, and this manager was reported to him as squandering his possessions. 2“And he called him and said to him, ‘What is this I hear about you? Give an accounting of your management, for you can no longer be manager.’ 3“The manager said to himself, ‘What shall I do, since my master is taking the management away from me? I am not strong enough to dig; I am ashamed to beg. 4‘I know what I shall do, so that when I am removed from the management people will welcome me into their homes.’ 5“And he summoned each one of his master’s debtors, and he began saying to the first, ‘How much do you owe my master?’ 6“And he said, ‘A hundred measures of oil.’ And he said to him, ‘Take your bill, and sit down quickly and write fifty.’ 7“Then he said to another, ‘And how much do you owe?’ And he said, ‘A hundred measures of wheat.’ He said to him, ‘Take your bill, and write eighty.’ 8“And his master praised the unrighteous manager because he had acted shrewdly; for the sons of this age are more shrewd in relation to their own kind than the sons of light. 9“And I say to you, make friends for yourselves by means of the wealth of unrighteousness, so that when it fails, they will receive you into the eternal dwellings.
    10“He who is faithful in a very little thing is faithful also in much; and he who is unrighteous in a very little thing is unrighteous also in much. 11“Therefore if you have not been faithful in the use of unrighteous wealth, who will entrust the true riches to you? 12“And if you have not been faithful in the use of that which is another’s, who will give you that which is your own? 13“No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.”

    Argument 1
    Here the rich man is analogy to God (in status) the manager is a lazy believer. In being appraised he has been found wanting and there is no more time or resources to rectify his position. The master's debtors are productive believers (they have been given what is their own, eternal dwellings) and they can be befriended by using unrighteous mammon (property belonging to another).

    Argument 2
    God can sustain your life by ensuring your birth is in a relatively resource rich family, country, environment. This is property which is not your own. You can channel these resources to good use. You can leave it behind in Egypt upon which God will give you what is your own, signs to help you gather lost sheep, just as He gave Moses who left Pharaoh's palace, or if you are weak or old, you can give it to those who are operating, by the finger of God, in the Kingdom to gather sheep so that you can share in their blessings. Bad use of this single talent is putting it in a hole in the ground, investing in earthly treasure that rusts and perishes. In this framework, love isn't the single talent, isn't a good fit.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2018
  4. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    Well, those are, umm, unique interpretations.
     
  5. Wordkeeper

    Wordkeeper Newbie

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    But good fits. And Jesus really does want you to put your money where your mouth is.

    No one is going to get punished for giving money and not loving. Can't say the same thing for those giving love and not money.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2018
  6. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    What? Are you saying that Peter is going to be punished for giving love and not money to the lame man at the temple?
     
  7. Wordkeeper

    Wordkeeper Newbie

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    But Peter is already living in eternal dwellings:

    Luke 18
    28Peter said, “Behold, we have left our own homes and followed You.” 29And He said to them, “Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or wife or brothers or parents or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, 30who will not receive many times as much at this time and in the age to come, eternal life.”

    Luke 12
    32“Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has chosen gladly to give you the kingdom.

    Two situations.

    Situation 1
    Stop serving mammon for earthly treasure that rusts and perishes, shown by selling everything and giving to the poor. In return for surrendering that which belongs to another, the single talent, you will have that which you can call your own, multiple resources.

    Situation 2
    Serve God by using unrighteous mammon to make friends with those who are already living in the Kingdom, who have been given multiple talents, which they can call their own, so that when your worldly resources runs out, they will welcome you into eternal dwellings, the blessings of being fruitful.

    Peter was USING one of those multiple talents (property he could call his own, because he earned them by surrendering the single talent, a very high price) with the beggar. Geddit?

    You couldn't lie about it to receive it. Or try to lowball the Giver. As Anananias and Sapphira, and Simon Magus, found out.
     
  8. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    Your money will go where your Love goes.
    If you do anything without being motivated by Godly type Love will it be of any value (1 Cor. 13:1-3)
     
  9. JESUSKiDtommy

    JESUSKiDtommy GODLY LOVE for others is so important

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    We are all born with a certain amount of caring in our hearts for others... some have ten.. some five.. some one... The parable isn't about how much LOVE we have but about growing the LOVE in us for the sake of the Kingdom of GODS HOLY LOVE.

    > It amazes me that people think a servant would be cast into outer darkness for not playing a piano in church.... getting cast out is a matter of not paying attention to or heeding the HOLY LOVE OF GOD that is to be alive within us.
     
  10. Wordkeeper

    Wordkeeper Newbie

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    I don't see money being given there. Don't mislead people from the real teaching.
     
  11. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    The text is about multiply and I don't see this as a multiply within, nor do I see this as playing the piano or not. I suppose you could say it is a growing love inside but if that love is not acted upon it is as good as burying it and hiding it as the servant with 1 talent did. So the take away is spreading this love, not inward but outward.. let's not get to ambiguous with the language either, it is God's love, it is the Gospel. So we are to spread the Gospel so it multiplies.
     
  12. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note that giving money but not loving will profit Christians nothing. For:

    1 Corinthians 13:3 . . . though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity [agape: love], it profiteth me nothing.
     
  13. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    That brought to mind:

    1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

    James 2:14 ¶What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
    15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
    16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
    17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

    James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
     
  14. Wordkeeper

    Wordkeeper Newbie

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    Okay, now we are getting somewhere. So what is the greatest form of love?

    It is this :

    John 15
    2“This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.13“Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.

    Did the disciples lay down their lives for each other?
     
  15. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    John 15:13 refers to what Jesus would do for the disciples, and all other obedient Christians (John 15:14).

    Regarding the fact that giving money but not loving will profit Christians nothing (1 Corinthians 13:3), the apostle Paul describes the love that we need for our giving of money to profit us spiritually:

    1 Corinthians 13:4 ¶Love suffereth long, and is kind; love envieth not; love vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
    5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
    6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
    7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
    8 ¶Love never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
    9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
    10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
    11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
    12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
    13 And now abideth faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
     
  16. Wordkeeper

    Wordkeeper Newbie

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    Why does Paul put Love with all the teaching gifts?
     
  17. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    He doesn't, if you mean the gifts he had just listed in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10.

    Instead, his point in 1 Corinthians 13 is that operating in the gifts, and other things that a Christian might do, like give all his goods to the poor, will not profit a Christian spiritually unless he also has love as described in 1 Corinthians 13:4-8a.

    --

    Also, it should be pointed out that the Holy Spirit's gifts listed in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10 operate only in Christians who have received Holy Spirit baptism (Acts 19:6, Acts 11:15-16, Acts 10:44-46).

    That is, besides getting water baptized, Christians can get Holy Spirit baptized (Acts 11:15-16, Acts 10:44-46). They usually have to ask to receive the Holy Spirit (Luke 11:13b) baptism, for it is usually not given to them automatically at the moment that they become Christians. That is why the apostle Paul at one point asked some Christians: "Have ye received the Holy Spirit since ye believed?" (Acts 19:2).

    Christians usually receive Holy Spirit baptism through prayer accompanied by the laying on of hands, subsequent to water baptism (Acts 8:15-17, Acts 19:5-6). Holy Spirit baptism will not result in the speaking in tongues for everyone (1 Corinthians 12:30), but for almost everyone, as tongues are one of the Spirit's lesser gifts (1 Corinthians 12:8-11,28; 1 Corinthians 14:5). Many Christians have not yet experienced Holy Spirit baptism simply because they have not yet asked for it, under the principle of: "ye have not, because ye ask not" (James 4:2b). Many Christians have not yet asked for it because they have come under the influence of mistaken teachings which say that it is no longer in effect. Christians can get hands laid on them to receive Holy Spirit baptism at any Pentecostal-type congregation, or at any charismatic-type congregation, which can be of almost any denomination.
     
  18. Wordkeeper

    Wordkeeper Newbie

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    The point is that the saints gathered for edification.

    One had a tongue, another an interpretation, yet another a prophesy.

    These were imperfect, requiring testing. If a man's work was burnt up (by checking it against Scripture) he himself would survive, but as through fire. He wouldn't be stoned like an OT prophet.

    But when the perfect arrived, we would see not as through a mirror dimly, but face to face.

    The perfect of course is love.

    Love is when a man turns away from mammon, the single talent and begins to serve God, when he is given several talents. Then when he speaks, it doesn't need testing.

    Turning away from mammon is laying down your life. Hands are laid on those who have placed all their possessions at the apostles' feet.
     
  19. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    That's right (1 Corinthians 14:26).

    And this is still true today in congregations and home groups which operate in the Spiritual gifts of 1 Corinthians 12:8-10.

    That's right (1 Corinthians 14:29).

    And this is still true today.

    1 Corinthians 13:10 refers to the perfect man (2 Timothy 3:17) which the whole obedient Church will become in our future (Ephesians 4:13), when it sees Jesus Christ face to face at His Second Coming (1 Corinthians 13:12; 1 John 3:2). All obedient Christians will be resurrected (if dead) or changed (if alive) into immortal, sinless, physical bodies like Jesus' physical, resurrection body (Luke 24:39,46; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4), at His Second Coming (Philippians 3:20-21; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53, Romans 8:23-25, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).
    -
    Currently, the Holy Spirit's gifts (1 Corinthians 12:8-10) still operate in Christians who have received Holy Spirit baptism (Acts 19:6, Acts 11:15-16, Acts 10:44-46), and will not cease operating until Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming. For 1 Corinthians 13:8-12 means that just as only when children become adults do they put away childish things, so only when Christians become perfect, when they see Jesus face to face at His Second Coming (1 John 3:2), will they no longer need Spiritual gifts such as prophecy, tongues, and the word of knowledge (1 Corinthians 12:8,10). During the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, which will just precede Jesus' Second Coming (Matthew 24:29-31), are some in the Church going to reject the ministry of the Two Witnesses because it will involve them prophesying and performing miracles (Revelation 11:3,6)?

    Because Jesus Christ's Second Coming, like the preceding Tribulation, has not happened yet, all of the Holy Spirit's gifts are still operating in the Church today, in Pentecostal congregations, and in charismatic congregations, which can be of almost any denomination. God's Word commands Christians to operate in the Spiritual gifts when Christians come together (1 Corinthians 14:26-31). So congregations today should be careful not to quench the Holy Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:19), by despising prophesyings (1 Thessalonians 5:20), or forbidding all speaking in tongues (1 Corinthians 14:39). Tongues are one of the Spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 12:8-10) through which Christians can be regularly edified (1 Corinthians 14:4-5,12,26). Not all Holy Spirit-baptized Christians will speak in tongues (1 Corinthians 12:30), but almost all will (cf. Acts 19:6, Acts 10:45-46). For tongues are one of the Holy Spirit's lesser gifts (1 Corinthians 12:28; 1 Corinthians 14:5).

    Different Christians receive different kinds of tongues (1 Corinthians 12:10). Some tongues are languages which people can understand (Acts 2:4,8), while other tongues are languages which people cannot understand (1 Corinthians 14:2), not even the speakers (1 Corinthians 14:14). Unintelligible tongues could include ancient human languages which are unknown to history, ancient human languages which are known to history but are not understood, and angelic languages (1 Corinthians 13:1). Unintelligible tongues are not useless, however. For when they are prayed or sung privately to God without interpretation (1 Corinthians 14:2,28), they edify the spirits of those who speak or sing them (1 Corinthians 14:4,14-15, Jude 1:20) to bless and thank God (1 Corinthians 14:16). And when unintelligible tongues are prayed or sung out loud in a congregation, and then Spiritually interpreted (1 Corinthians 12:10b-11), their interpretation edifies the whole congregation (1 Corinthians 14:5b,12-13,26). When Christians sing in tongues to God, they are singing the "spiritual songs" which the Bible distinguishes from psalms and hymns (Ephesians 5:19, Colossians 3:16).

    The Bible sets no restrictions on how much Christians can pray and sing to God in tongues out loud at home or silently in church (1 Corinthians 14:28) (just as regular praying can be done silently: 1 Samuel 1:13,17). Indeed, the apostle Paul prayed and sung to God in tongues in private more than anyone (1 Corinthians 14:18-19). But regarding church meetings, the Bible sets strict rules on speaking tongues out loud: They are not to be spoken out loud in church meetings unless there is someone present who can Spiritually interpret them to the whole congregation (1 Corinthians 14:28). And even when a tongues-interpreter is present, at the most only three people should in turn speak out loud in unknown tongues, which should then be interpreted to the whole congregation (1 Corinthians 14:27). Everyone who has received the gift of tongues should be praying for the separate gift of the interpretation of tongues, so that he or she can edify others (1 Corinthians 14:12-13; 1 Corinthians 12:10b).

    That brought to mind that people must forsake everything that they have if they are to be Jesus Christ's disciples (Luke 14:33).

    When you hear Jesus Christ say to you: "Come and follow Me" (Luke 18:22), you must walk away from everything but the clothes on your back (Luke 18:23, Luke 9:59-62, Matthew 19:29). He may have you walk only as far as the city limits and then turn around and go back home, as long as you were willing to keep going indefinitely. Or, He may ask you to keep going, until He has separated your soul from all attachment to the temporary things of this fallen world (1 John 2:15-17; James 4:4; 2 Timothy 4:10, John 12:25-26).
     
  20. jesus316

    jesus316 All Truth is in Jesus Supporter

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    Jesus is referring to those with talents, not those with no talents. Presumably, he thinks we all have talents and expects us to use them wisely.
     
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