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Featured What about those who never knew Jesus?

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by AppleGold, May 21, 2019.

  1. Tutorman

    Tutorman Charismatic Episcopalian

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    That is the western idea unfortunately
     
  2. AllDayFaith

    AllDayFaith New Member

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    I've always wondered about this myself. I honestly think that God would reveal the truth to everyone so that they have a chance to believe.
     
  3. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    some bury their talents, others multiply what little they have.
     
  4. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
    Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
    Psalms 19:1-4
    (1) To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
    (2) Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
    (3) There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
    (4) Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
    Romans 1:18-21
    (18) For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
    (19) Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
    (20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
    (21) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
     
  5. SaintCody777

    SaintCody777 A wise Berean

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    I actually have struggled with this as I knew more of what it's like to be a Christian and as I read Scripture more often, at one point I had to swallow it. I used to believe that non-Christians, like atheists, Bhuddists, and Shintos, can be saved as long as they adhered to the same commandments as God gave to Jews and Christians.

    I struggled with questions like: If a Bhuddist who has devoted his life to charity and a virtuous life, then why would God send him to hell anyways?
    If a Shinto family had good morals and lived kind and virtuous lives, why would God deny them entry to the Kingdom of God? Isn't this exclusive?
    What about the good atheists, like my brother's Ukranian friend?
    And lo and behold I got this clear answer, everyone has sinned (Romans 3:9-10) at least one time or another. So the only way we can be justified under the law is sincerely placing our trust in the finished work of Christ alone to deem us worthy (John 3:16; Romans 3:31). And I'm not talking about the "altar-call" events where you make a "decision for Christ." In turn, He will give us a will to love the things that God loves and hate what He hates (Romans 12:1).
    Luke 19:14,27 seems intolerant and insane, especially in our modern culture. But this parable represents the fate of those who refuse to acknowledge and bow to Jesus' call.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
  6. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    People do not understand that God is not an impartial and indifferent God, but He is biased toward salvation.

    The Lord does not delay His promise, as some understand delay, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish but all to come to repentance. 2 Peter 3

    That's what scripture strongly implies:

    1 The heavens declare the glory of God,
    and the sky proclaims the work of His hands.
    2 Day after day they pour out speech;
    night after night they communicate knowledge.
    3 There is no speech; there are no words;
    their voice is not heard.
    4 Their message has gone out to all the earth,
    and their words to the ends of the world.
    -- Psalm 19

    For God’s wrath is revealed from heaven against all godlessness and unrighteousness of people who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth, since what can be known about God is evident among them, because God has shown it to them. For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse -- Romans 1

    There is an example--Job. If you read the book of Job, you never see either God or Job speak of God's great deeds for the Jews because Job is not a descendant of Abraham. Job does not know God from any of that.

    Instead, God speaks of His creation (Job 38): The constellations in the sky, the tides, the great beasts of land and sea. God speaks to Job of creation--uniquely in all of scripture--because that's how Job knows of God. Job has no revelation or relationship with God except through creation, and Job is ignorant of God's promises for any future for man or even himself.

    Job worships God in ignorance of His plans and intentions, but only because Job sees God in creation and is thus confident of at least His existence and His essential virtuous nature.

    “He is not a mere mortal like me that I might answer him,
    that we might confront each other in court.
    If only there were someone to mediate between us,
    someone to bring us together,
    someone to remove God’s rod from me,
    so that his terror would frighten me no more.
    Then I would speak up without fear of him,
    but as it now stands with me, I cannot.
    -- Job 9

    Job does not know the name of Jesus, but he knows he needs Jesus--and all from creation, not from direct revelation.

    Therefore, what you worship in ignorance, this I proclaim to you. The God who made the world and everything in it—He is Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in shrines made by hands. Neither is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives everyone life and breath and all things. From one man He has made every nationality to live over the whole earth and has determined their appointed times and the boundaries of where they live. He did this so they might seek God, and perhaps they might reach out and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. -- Acts 17
     
  7. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    What I think happens--and I've heard this from people in the Far East who have become Christians--is that those people are never fully confident and comfortable in those religions, but are always discomfited with an unshakable feeling that there is something more. If they never hear the gospel, they never find the peace and surety in this life that the gospel could provide.

    But God knows who they are.
     
  8. Loversofjesus_2018

    Loversofjesus_2018 Member

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    Does not live in shrines made by human hands. Neither is he served by human hands. That’s interesting. Thanks for the scriptures!
     
  9. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    CS Lewis was an "Inclusivist," as was Billy Graham. Inclusivism presumes God had enabled people all around the world to believe in Him, and they seek Him as best they can, and are discomfited by never having heard the gospel in their lives. But God knows who they are.
     
  10. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    Unfortunately:

    As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you." -- Romans 2

    I don't know how many persons who had been enabled by the Father to believe (John 44) are pushed away at least temporarily by the false, distorted gospel presented by the actions of people claiming to be Christian. How can such people be believed?
     
  11. THE W

    THE W AFRIKANB0T

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    It isn't..

    You can't refuse an offer that was never given.
     
  12. Light of the East

    Light of the East Orthodox Inquirer Supporter

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    Which they may well have opportunity to do after they die.
     
  13. Light of the East

    Light of the East Orthodox Inquirer Supporter

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    Well, yes, it is. Western theology, anthropology, and soteriology are all built upon the courtroom mentality of the Roman Empire. Western theology sees God as the angry, offended judge who can't wait to send people into eternal, fiery torment. Somehow, they don't really meditate upon the Parable of the Prodigal and how the father of the Prodigal was actually looking for his son to return so that he could forgive and restore him.
     
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  14. TRVL ONE

    TRVL ONE Member

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    God gives people faith to believe in him. No one that is suppose to go to heaven will go to hell. I believe God knows what year a person with be born and what countries they will be born in. Anyone that goes to heaven will somehow believe and follow Jesus. God will cause them to find him some how. In the book of Revelation and angel will give the gospel to the whole world.
     
  15. TRVL ONE

    TRVL ONE Member

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    God knows the year and country everyone will be born in. He can make connect people with the gospel message or not, knowing who will be saved and who will not be saved

    There are millions of believers in Africa and Asia
     
  16. -Sasha-

    -Sasha- Handmaid of God

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    I don't know, but I hope so.
     
  17. CGL1023

    CGL1023 citizen of heaven

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    God is just and would not be unfair or underhanded in any dealings He has with people.
     
  18. Danielwright2311

    Danielwright2311 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    1. I have met and seen many who say on there death Jesus comes to them and gives them a choice.

    2. God is the master of all, and He decides who He is going to save and who He is not. The ones who He wants to save he sends them to his son Jesus, this is quoited from Jesus him self.

    3. There is always another chance, I also have heard and seen many who God sends back for other chances. Is this true? I don't know, But God can do anything He wishes, He is the creator of life and the decider of all things.
     
  19. AppleGold

    AppleGold New Member

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    This is where I was going with this. Now in Dante's Inferno there is a Purgatory, people who lived good lives but did not know Jesus, a temporary place. Cause many Christians claim that the truth reaches everyone person on Earth, all 7 Billion people while they are still alive. I have a hard time believing that the truth will reach all 7 Billion people on this Earth before they die, now whether or not they accept the truth is a different story.
    Also people said he reveals through creation and conscience. I see two things wrong with that. If you never knew about Jesus, you might believe in God through creation, but you might not believe in only one God. You also don't know what/who God is, since you have no Bible. Second, conscience is not something everyone has, some people are scientifically proven to be sociopaths, as scientists did brain scans of all mass murders and other highly skilled criminals and they are all the same. A very small percentage, like 1 to 3 percent is that way. They can learn right from wrong, but they don't have an innate right from wrong. They might not even know why it is wrong, just that they were told it is wrong.
    Edit: John: 6:44. This sounds like Predestination to me. Cause if Predestination, is true, then I feel like me trying is useless, cause I had a dream that I went to Hell when I was eight, and that I would go there when I died, like I could never reach God and he could never reach me. It wasn't the Hell people described, it was a dream, not that my actual soul went there, so it was watered down a lot versus people's souls that have been in the place and came back. And because Joseph could tell people what your dreams mean, I wonder if my dream meant exactly that. I was also told in CCD/Church that you choose to be with or turn away from God.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  20. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

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    However, God tells us that His thoughts are not our thoughts. What we might perceive as unjust, God might perceive differently. If I say a thing is unjust and God says it is just, who would you consider to be the more proper authority on the issue?
     
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