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Featured What about the 2 witnesses Revelation 11

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by LittleLambofJesus, Jul 20, 2018.

  1. Moses and Elijah

    11.1%
  2. Enoch and Elijah

    22.2%
  3. They are 2 groups of people

    8.3%
  4. They are a group of people

    8.3%
  5. I am not sure, but am willing to learn

    13.9%
  6. Other

    36.1%
  1. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Who/what are the 2 witnesses symbolizing in Reve 11.
    The powers they have are similar to those of Moses and Elijah, whom appeared with Jesus at the transfiguration. Discuss........

    Matthew 17:3
    And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.
    Mark 9:4
    And Elijah appeared to them with Moses, and they were talking with Jesus.
    Luke 9:30
    And behold, two men talked with Him, who were Moses and Elijah,



    Revelation 11:
    1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and one said, Rise! and measure! the Sanctuary of God, and the Altar, and them that worship therein.
    2 And the Court, which is without the Sanctuary, be casting out! outside, and measure it not;
    for it hath been given unto the Nations:
    and the holy City shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

    3 And I shall be giving unto My two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
    4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
    5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies:
    and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
    6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy:
    and have power over waters to turn them to blood,
    and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

    Exodus 7:
    19 Then the LORD spoke to Moses, “Say to Aaron, ‘Take your rod and stretch out your hand over the waters of Egypt, over their streams, over their rivers, over their ponds, and over all their pools of water, that they may become blood. And there shall be blood throughout all the land of Egypt, both in buckets of wood and pitchers of stone.' ”
    20 And Moses and Aaron did so, just as the LORD commanded.
    So he lifted up the rod and struck the waters that were in the river, in the sight of Pharaoh and in the sight of his servants.
    And all the waters that were in the river were turned to blood.

    1Kings 17:1
    And Elijah the Tishbite, of the inhabitants of Gilead, said to Ahab, “As the LORD God of Israel lives, before whom I stand, there shall not be dew nor rain these years, except at my word.”

    James 5:17
    Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain;
    and it did not rain on the land for three years and six months.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
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  2. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    Great thread! I voted for Enoch and Elijah. Neither of them "died", but went to heaven without tasting death. God just went ahead and "took" Enoch, and Elijah went to heaven in a chariot of fire.
     
  3. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Revelation 11:
    4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. [Zechariah 4:14]

    Reve 11:4 is taken from Zechariah 4:

    Zechariah 4:
    1 Then the angel who was speaking with me returned and woke me, as a man is awakened from his sleep.
    2 “What do you see?” he asked.
    “I see a solid gold lampstand,” I replied, “with a bowl at the top and seven lamps on it, with seven spouts to each of the lamps.
    3 There are also two olive trees beside it, one on the right of the bowl and the other on its left.”
    4 “What are these, my lord?” I asked the angel who was speaking with me.
    5 “Do you not know what they are?” replied the angel.
    “No, my lord,” I answered.
    6 So he said to me, “This is the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel:
    Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit, says the LORD of Hosts.
    7 What are you, O great mountain? Before Zerubbabel you will become a plain. Then he will bring forth the capstone accompanied by shouts of ‘Grace, grace to it!’”

    8 Then the word of the LORD came to me: 9 “The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house, and his hands will complete it. Then you will know that the LORD of Hosts has sent me to you. 10 For who has despised the day of small things? But these seven eyes of the LORD, which scan the whole earth, will rejoice when they see the plumb linea in Zerubbabel’s hand.”

    11 Then I asked the angel, “What are the two olive trees on the right and left of the lampstand?
    12 And I questioned him further, “What are the two olive branches beside the two gold pipes from which the golden oilb pours?”
    13 “Do not you know what these are?” he inquired.
    “No, my lord,” I replied.

    14 So he said, “These are the two anointed onesc who are standing beside the Lord of all the earth.” [Revelation 11:4]
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
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  4. Stringfellow_Hawke

    Stringfellow_Hawke Active Member

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    I went with Other. Never heard the Elijah and Enoch theory. I always got the impression it was 2 different people but not from any time beforehand.
     
  5. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    [​IMG]
    Hello and welcome to GT. Thanks for your input :wave:
    ....I like J.M.V.....
    Him and C.B. were awesome together in the original "The Mechanic" movie.

     
  6. Stringfellow_Hawke

    Stringfellow_Hawke Active Member

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    Big Airwolf fan here. :)
     
  7. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    The fire and brimstone is also mentioned in the lake of fire........

    Revelation 11:
    5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies:
    and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

    Only Luke uses the word "sulphur/brimstone<2203>" outside of Revelation

    2303. theion thi'-on probably neuter of 2304 (in its original sense of flashing); sulphur:--brimstone.

    Luke 17:
    28 Likewise even as it came to pass in the days of Lot; they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
    29 but in the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone<2303> from heaven, and destroyed them all

    Revelation 9:
    17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision: those who sat on them had breastplates of fiery red, hyacinth blue, and sulfur yellow;
    and the heads of the horses were like the heads of lions;
    and out of their mouths came fire, smoke, and brimstone<2303>.
    18 By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed—by the fire and the smoke and the brimstone<2303> which came out of their mouths.

    Revelation 14:
    10 he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and brimstone<2303> in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.
    11 And the smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever.............

    Revelation 19:
    20 But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed signs on his behalf, by which he deceived those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image.
    Both of them were thrown alive into the lake of fire burning in brimstone<2303>.
    #2303 Revelation
    14:10, 19:20 20:10 21:8
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
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  8. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Instead of trying to identify "the two witnesses" I find it more important to accurately understand what the "two witnesses" are, and ARE NOT.



    Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
    Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees, AND the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.


    "the two olive trees" AND "the two candlesticks"




    As you see, there are two of one thing and two of another.

    ------------------one witness------------second witness------------
    4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

    We have 4 altogether that compose the "two witness".

    So what are olive trees?


    Zechariah 4:11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?


    "What are these two olive trees"


    Zechariah 4:12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
    Zechariah 4:13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
    Zechariah 4:14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.


    "These are the two anointed ones"


    And olive trees represent anointed people. So, the two olive trees that form ONE WITNESS are two individuals that have been anointed.


    Zechariah 4:14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.


    Two anointed ones. To be anointed simply means to be blessed with the gifts of the Holy spirit, especially with knowledge which includes knowledge of the future known as prophecy. "ones" means individuals, there are two individuals being spoken of.

    ones:

    1121

    01121 ben {bane}

    from 01129; TWOT - 254; n m

    AV - son 2978, children 1568, old 135, first 51, man 20, young 18,
    young + 01241 17, child 10, stranger 10, people 5, misc 92; 4906

    1) son, grandson, child, member of a group
    1a) son, male child
    1b) grandson
    1c) children (pl. - male and female)
    1d) youth, young men (pl.)
    1e) young (of animals)
    1f) sons (as characterisation, ie sons of injustice [for un-
    righteous men] or sons of God [for angels]
    1g) people (of a nation) (pl.)
    1h) of lifeless things, ie sparks, stars, arrows (fig.)
    1i) a member of a guild, order, class

    ----------------one witness--------------second witness------------
    4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.


    What are the two candlesticks?

    Revelation 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.


    "and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches"


    Candlesticks represent churches which are groups of Christians.







    Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
    Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees, AND the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.


    so to add what we know:


    Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
    Revelation 11:4 These are the two [anointed ones], AND the two [churches] standing before the God of the earth.

    According to scripture, the two witnesses are two churches (candlesticks) AND two persons (olives trees). One witness is the two churches, the other witness is the two persons. Many believe it is Elijah and Enoch but who they are or aren't is another discussion.




    When scripture refers to the two "olive trees" and we learn that olive trees represent "anointed ones" then we know these two olive trees are in fact two "anointed ones" which is simply two anointed people or persons...but there's more:


    Revelation 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.


    Here only the two olive trees are called the two prophets. Prophets are individuals, in fact they are males. Two male prophets which are anointed by God to give prophetic messages.


    Since its also scriptural fact that candlesticks are churches we then have this:


    Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees [the two anointed prophets], and the two candlesticks [two churches] standing before the God of the earth.


    Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.


    If you wish to speak of the two prophets which are killed by the antichrist/beast and are raised back to life by God, it is incorrect to refer to them as the "two witnesses" since the scriptures do not. They are referred to as one of the two witnesses, the two olive trees which are two anointed individuals ie: the two prophets.
     
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  9. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    I will go with what Jesus said.

    Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.


    And with what Paul said.

    Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?



    Or you could claim these are two men made of wood and metal...

    .
     
  10. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes, strong resemblances to Moses & Elijah --> Law & Prophets (= Torah in totality) by "spiritual interpretation"

    Reference to "candlesticks" = 7 Churches of Rev; "two olive trees" = Paul's description of national Israel remnant + ingrafted "spiritual Israel" adopted gentile remnant within the Church body of Christ

    so I offer that there's a double or triple or multiple entendre, designed to convey the whole entire spectrum of meanings all at once...

    Moses + Elijah = Law & Prophets = Torah in totality, which foretold Jesus & proves him Christ
    faithful Jews & gentiles = Church community, which evangelizes Jesus
     
  11. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    To believe that Enoch and Elijah will come back to Earth as Two Witnesses just because they did not taste death is absurd. Frankly!
     
  12. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Revelation 20:4
    • "These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth".
    Christians have been taught so many different interpretations about the candlesticks and olive trees that many find these verses confusing or difficult to sort out. For example, there are some theologians who claim that these two represent the Old and New Testament Churches. But that obviously can not. A divided Church made up of two groups, old and new, or of Jews and Gentiles is unacceptable Biblically. God declares the gentiles are grafted 'into' the Covenant tree of Israel and are become one body - Ephesians 2:6; 2:11-16.

    There is only one Church at the time of their prophecy, not "two Testament witnesses" to whom it is 'given' to prophecy at this time. Nor can it be Biblically validated that these are literally Enoch, Moses or Elijah as has been alleged just because some of them did not taste death.

    Now, the number one rule when trying to understand the 'symbolism' of Revelation is to remember that, '
    the Bible is it's own interpreter.' In other words, the interpretation of these passages will be found in God's Word, not in our personal conceptions or in the imaginations of our heart. According to 2nd Timothy 2:15 and 1st Cor. 3:13, we compare Scripture with scripture and surrender to its authority rather than our own will. By this we allow God to define His own terms. When we do this, our faithful work in Christ is rewarded and we begin to see how God consistently repeats the same symbolism throughout scripture. We learn from the text, the context, and in what sense it is used throughout. In this way, we come to understand what God is illustrating by the word.

    The fact is, to really understand the background of the symbolism of the candlesticks (lampstands), we have to go back to the Old Testament where the candlestick was commanded to be put in the Temple of God, and to be kept burning continually [tamiyd] by the service of the children of Israel. By this God was prefiguring that He is the light of the Temple of God, and that it is by the service of His servants that it will be kept burning continually. God is the true light of the Temple. And He is the tree which supplies the pure Olive Oil (Spirit) for it's burning.

    2nd Samuel 22:29

    • "For Thou art my Lamp, O Lord: and the Lord will lighten my darkness."
    The significance in God commanding the children of Israel to keep the lamp of the Temple burning (Leviticus 24:1-3), is to show that the children of God have the work assigned them to keep light burning bright always. And this is the very same job that the Lord has given the New Testament Church today also! And it has been since Pentecost! God's children today are commanded to keep the light burning continually, just as the Jews were commanded to do in their Old Testament congregation as an EXAMPLE! We can clearly see this 'signification' as Jesus told the Church, 'Ye are the light of the world.' This is only because we are in Christ, and He is the true light of the world. And that was the same 'signification' that God was illustrating in the Old Testament ceremonial law of the lampstand (candlestick). Christ was the true focal point of it. He was the light, and "WE" are His servants commissioned to keep it burning always. For example, The working of the Holy SPirit is that the light of the Lord would shine through us always. Unfortunately today, many have forsaken this calling, and forgotten it's history.

    Now Listen to what Christ said to His Church:

    Acts 1:8
    • "But ye shall Receive Power, after the Holy ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be Witnesses unto Me both in Jerusalem and in all Judaea, and Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."
    This is the power which God gave unto His witnesses that they could prophecy to the world with the Gospel for this time period. It is the power of the Holy Spirit which was given God's witnesses at Pentecost. And because of this power has given us, we come in His Spirit with the testimony of the law of God. This is just as Moses did! And just as prophets of God such as Elijah did! Selah! We "are" these Witnesses and Prophets.

    Acts 2:16-18
    • "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
    • And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
    • And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:"
    The last days is the WHOLE New Testament period. With the advent of the New Testament period, we have by the Spirit of God become prophets. Because of the similarity and the obvious language. And the Word of God is that law which these prophets of the Church comes with. For example, the Church comes in the Spirit and Power of Moses and Elijah because they come as witnesses to the law (as Moses) and as prophets of judgment and deliverance (as Elijah). Not that this. Because of being endowed with the power of the Holy Spirit and the Word from God's mouth, the true believers give the world the same glorious evidences of God’s presence and power as Moses and Elijah did.

    We can readily understand most of the symbolisms for the Church (power to prophecy, power as witnesses, power of the Holy Spirit), but the question I have heard often was like: 'why are there two witnesses?' Many make the assumption that because it says there are two, this implies that it is literally two people. But that is like saying that because there were twelve Apostles, it implies the Church must consist of twelve people. This doesn't follow at all becasue the number twelve was often used in Scripture by God to REPRESENT the whole congregation. Just as the twelve tribes of Israel represented the whole Old Testament congregation. Or as another example, in Zechariah we see the illustration of one candlestick (lampstand). In Revelation chapter one we see the illustration of seven candlesticks, and in this Revelation chapter eleven, we see two candlesticks. That's because with these numbers God is illustrating the different aspects of the Church in each symbolism. And particularly the phrase 'two witnesses' is used to signify that these witnesses in the Church are those which testify in truth. THis is what the number two signifies in Scripture! Truth! In other words, the two witnesses are not symbolizing the whole corporate or external covenant Church, but rather they are a symbol to illustrate only the faithful (truthful) indivisible Church within the external body. The Elect! These are those who are measured in Christ, Revelation 11:1-2. It is only the true Church 'within' the covenant corporate Church that shall prophesy Truth. The true believers are the elect who don't fall headlong into the teachings of false gospels, but who come with the rod of measurement that they discern the true pattern of God's house, and consequently, the form which is not of God. The two witnesses represent those who are truly in Christ, and thus rest upon the true foundation, which is their pillar.

    1st Timothy 3:15
    • "But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the Church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."
    Being in Christ is being in the Church which is the pillar and ground (foundation) of the truth, not the external Church, it's leaders, or Church traditions! Selah! The house which is Christ is the ground of truth. That is to say, true believers dwell in the body of Christ, and are built upon 'Him.' He is that foundation, Pillar and ground of the truth. Not the assembly itself. They are witnesses to truth only as they abide in Christ, thee truth. And this is what the number two illustrates. God uses it to signify these are true (two) witnesses to His law. These are not false teachers or false prophets, these are His true prophets. And there are MANY of us since Pentecost! We are God's Two Witnesses!
     
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  13. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    Your opinion is noted.

    So is your utter rudeness and lack of insight into my lack of interest in your rude opinion.
     
  14. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    per typical of your folly , you make assumptions and accusations that have no basis in facts but mere assumptions
    Scripture makes it clear that of the two witnesses there are two prophets - two men that have been given protection by/from God during their time of testimony - when they have finished their given task they are killed and the rise to their feet in sight of people as they are called up into heaven - if you say that we the Church are the two witnesses - then the entire church will be dead for 3.5 days not just in Jerusalem but the entire world over , then they all rise to their feet and are called up into heaven
    Scripture does interpret scripture - but that does not mean you get to apply the interpretation of your choice just because you can find words repeated in scripture and apply them as you wish - most of the Holy Bible is written in plain sense , just as when people are having face to face conversations -Not some secret code that has to be deciphered based on previous conversations
     
  15. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Let's look at the 2 verses concerning the Sanctuary, Altar and Court that is preceding the 2 witnesses, as these appear to be badly translated in most Bible versions:

    Revelation 11:
    1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and one said, "rouse/rise! and measure! the Sanctuary of God, and the Altar, and them that worship therein.
    2 And the Court, which is without the Sanctuary, be casting out! outside, and measure it not; for it hath been given unto the Nations:
    and the holy City shall they tread under foot forty and two months'.

    John is told to do 3 measurements

    the Sanctuary<3485> of God
    the Altar<2379>
    them that worship<4352> therein


    told not to measure but "cast-out"

    the Court<833>
    be casting-out<1544>! outside

    the Sanctuary<3485>.

    3485. naos nah-os' from a primary naio (to dwell); a fane, shrine, temple :--shrine, temple. Compare 2411.
    Strong's Number G3485 matches the Greek ναός (naos),which occurs 46 times in 40 verses.


    Genesis 1:1 (YLT)

    1st time used:
    YLT)
    Matthew 23:16
    'Woe to ye guides! blind-ones!

    who are saying, 'Whoever may swear by the Sanctuary<3485>, it is nothing,
    but whoever may swear by the gold of the Sanctuary<3485> -- is debtor!'

    Last time used:

    Revelation 21:22
    And a Sanctuary<3485> I did not see in it,

    for the Lord God, the Almighty, is its Sanctuary<3485>, and the Lamb,

    the Altar<2379>

    Strong's Number G2379 matches the Greek θυσιαστήριον (thysiastērion), which occurs 23 times in 21 verses

    Matthew 23:18
    'And, whoever may swear by the Altar<2379>, it is nothing;

    but whoever may swear by the gift that is upon it -- is debtor!

    Hebrews 13:10
    we have an Altar<2379>, of which to eat they have no authority who the tabernacle/booth<4633> are serving,


    Last time used:

    Revelation 16:7
    and I hear of the Altar<2379> saying,

    "Yea, Lord! the God, the Almighty, true and righteous are Thy judgments.

    the Court<833>

    be casting-out<1544>!

    Strong's Number G833 matches the Greek αὐλή (aulē), which occurs 12 times in 12 verses

    ["......and them that worship therein"
    now we are getting an idea who John is to measure in the Sanctuary...the Priesthood]
    1st time used:

    Matthew 26:3
    Then assembled together the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders of the people, unto the Court<833> of the high priest, who was called Caiaphas,


    John 18:15
    And Simon Peter followed Jesus, and so did another disciple: that disciple was known unto the high priest,
    and went in with Jesus into the Court<833> of the high priest.


    the Court<833> be casting-out<1544>!

    1544. ekballo ek-bal'-lo from 1537 and 906; to eject (literally or figuratively):--bring forth, cast (forth, out), drive (out), expel, leave, pluck (pull, take, thrust) out, put forth (out), send away (forth, out).

    Strong's Number G1544 matches the Greek ἐκβάλλω (ekballō), which occurs 96 times in 76 verses

    Most versions have "leave out", which is a very poor rendering to the greek word #1544.

    Using an interlinear, the only other verse that uses the exact form of the word #1544 is in Galatians 4, revealing how "covenantle" Revelation is:

    Galatians 4:30
    But what/any is saying the Scripture 'be Casting-Out!/ekbale <1544> (5628) the maid-servant and the son of her,

    for not no shall be tenanting/inheriting the son of the maid-servant with the son of the free-one.

    Revelation 11:2
    and the court, outside of the Sanctuary, be Casting-Out!/ekbale <1544> (5628) out-side, and thou mayest not be measuring it....


    1st time used:
    Matthew 7:4
    Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me cast<1544> the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?


    Last time used outside of Revelation:

    3John 1
    9 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.

    10 Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, gossiping against us with wicked words: and not content therewith,
    neither doth he himself receive the brethren,
    and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth-out<1544> them out of the Assembly/Church.






     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
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  16. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Speaking of opinion, all I heard is a private opinion coming from your mouth on Enoch and Elijah WITHOUT a Scripture support why you believe God has considered or plan to use them as Two Witnesses of Revelation 11. Don't be surprised if I thought your position is absurd "IF" you could not prove it biblically.
     
  17. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    As stated previously, your opinion is noted.

    Regardless of how utterly rude and pompous it is.
     
  18. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It is not rude. Its a statement of fact. Where is your biblical proof on Enoch and Elijah? If you couldn't, then you should not be surprised by my response. :) You just felt offended and called it "opinion" or "rude" which is the best you could do when you could not provide what I asked.
     
  19. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    Aaaah, unfortunately the rudeness and pomposity of your post to me completely blocked any serious consideration of such rudeness.

    Lack of civility and grace a stumbling block, much?

    You of course, are familiar with the verse about the proud and what happens to them, are you not?
     
  20. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    IMO it is absurd to think the 2W are meaning 2 literal people, regardless who one might be taking them to mean. Years ago I used to conclude it was meaning 2 literal people. I remember debating this with a particular Amil a number of years back on another board. It took awhile, but eventually his arguments convinced me 2 literal people are not what is meant here.
     
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