What about tattoos & piercings?

mm17162646

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I do agree with your general sentiment. It's not necessary however for everyone to have the same opinions about every single thing; this would be against Romans 14.

I have reread Romans 14.

The beginning speaks about Christians of weak and strong faith and how those weak in some areas will have to avoid certain activities while those that are strong in faith will not. I will omit this part due to it being unrelated.

The later part discusses what you are talking about and I would agree you are correct in the sense that there will be certain areas where church members will argue or not see eye to eye. And we should not waste time debating in those area as Paul says.

However these areas discussed are those that are not entirely outlined in the Bible. These areas are those outside of God's law and deal with rules and regulations.

It is only for these areas, and not issues that are uncompromising such as homosexuality, or false idols; that we should not bicker amongst ourselves, and is up to the individual.

In order to answer then if tattoos falls within God's law, one would have to cite scripture.

If there is enough evidence from scripture then it should be an uncompromising issue that all should see eye to eye in.

Anyone that sees this message should google or simply review their Bible and the evidence against tattoos when they get the chance.

Leviticus 19:28 is a direct example. Though argued because it is old testament. However I would think we should look to see if the teachers and apostles of Christ utilized tattoos. As well as God's intentions for us in his image.

The debate would have to be if it is a sin or the validity of Leviticus in the new covenant, because if it is not then Romans 14 would apply and the topic is best left to the individual as you said.

Much love and God bless all! I learned something new with Romans 14! Thank you.

TLDR: If tattoos are sinful, then it should be an uncompromising issue.

If they are not Romans 14, declares we leave it up to the individual.
 
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faroukfarouk

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I have reread Romans 14.

The beginning speaks about Christians of weak and strong faith and how those weak in some areas will have to avoid certain activities while those that are strong in faith will not. I will omit this part due to it being unrelated.

The later part discusses what you are talking about and I would agree you are correct in the sense that there will be certain areas where church members will argue or not see eye to eye. And we should not waste time debating in those area as Paul says.

However these areas discussed are those that are not entirely outlined in the Bible. These areas are those outside of God's law and deal with rules and regulations.

It is only for these areas, and not issues that are uncompromising such as homosexuality, or false idols; that we should not bicker amongst ourselves, and is up to the individual.

In order to answer then if tattoos falls within God's law, one would have to cite scripture.

If there is enough evidence from scripture then it should be an uncompromising issue that all should see eye to eye in.

Anyone that sees this message should google or simply review their Bible and the evidence against tattoos when they get the chance.

Leviticus 19:28 is a direct example. Though argued because it is old testament. However I would think we should look to see if the teachers and apostles of Christ utilized tattoos. As well as God's intentions for us in his image.

The debate would have to be if it is a sin or the validity of Leviticus in the new covenant, because if it is not then Romans 14 would apply and the topic is best left to the individual as you said.

Much love and God bless all! I learned something new with Romans 14! Thank you.

TLDR: If tattoos are sinful, then it should be an uncompromising issue.

If they are not Romans 14, declares we leave it up to the individual.
@Mdog123abc Thanks for your various comments.

Another verse which over the decades has been quoted is Isaiah 49.12.

The Amplified Version has 'I have tattooed thee...(etc.)'.

And so some readers will take it one way, some will take it another; and some will reserve forming a viewpoint.

Blessings.
 
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faroukfarouk

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A look at the Bible shows that both men and women wore earrings.
There is a sense in which those who wish to be vocally unreconciled to men wearing earrings will likely continue to be vocal, despite any Biblical evidence to the contrary. In the end it's about a legalistic mindset. The fact that a majority of boys and young men happen to wear earrings who sometimes attend the very conservative local church where my wife and I go, would thus only condemn us in the eyes of irreconcilable legalists. Despite the way in which loud legalists might vocally use the Scriptures when it suits them, yet at a deeper level, one may well ask about the legalistic mindset, what does the Bible really have to do with it?
 
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Hi @Oscarr; did you see this thread? since you've commented in the past about tattoos...
I think it is in the area where Paul said that everything is lawful for him, but he will not allow himself to be under the power of any. There are many things in the Mosaic Law that are not exactly part of the moral law. This means that as a converted believer I need to abide by God's moral law to the best of my ability and use 1 John 1:9 when I fail.

But there are many other aspects of the Mosaic Law which were binding for the Jews, but not binding for New Covenant believers. Although Paul is bound by the moral law concerning adultery, fornication, lying, stealing, hatred, murder, rape, etc which he identifies in Galatians 5 as the works of the flesh, he is not bound by the food, ceremonial, food offered to idols, tattoos, wearing of jewellery, etc., which are amoral - but he says that if a believer engages in something that upsets his conscience and is sin for him, it is better to avoid it so that he keeps his peace and not allow his faith to be upset by any condemnation bombs from the devil.

So when Paul says that all things are lawful for him, he is talking about the amoral requirements of the Mosaic Law. But he is aware that "weaker" believers may have scruples about certain things, like jewellery and tattoos and eating certain foods associated with pagan worship, so that although Paul would not worry at all about doing those things, he is aware that in the presence of a weaker brother or sister, he needs to abstain because he could influence that weaker person to copy him and therefore do something that might wound that person's conscience because although it would not be sin for Paul, in the mind of the other person it could be sin. Therefore Paul would not want to do anything that would compromise another person's faith in Christ.

In actual fact, smoking and drinking alcohol are in the same category. Some do not see doing those things is sin for them, but for others they are sin, therefore, to follow Paul's advice, it is better for a smoker or drinker to refrain in the presence of a believer with a weaker conscience. This is part of loving our brethren in Christ and not causing offence.
 
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faroukfarouk

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I think it is in the area where Paul said that everything is lawful for him, but he will not allow himself to be under the power of any. There are many things in the Mosaic Law that are not exactly part of the moral law. This means that as a converted believer I need to abide by God's moral law to the best of my ability and use 1 John 1:9 when I fail.

But there are many other aspects of the Mosaic Law which were binding for the Jews, but not binding for New Covenant believers. Although Paul is bound by the moral law concerning adultery, fornication, lying, stealing, hatred, murder, rape, etc which he identifies in Galatians 5 as the works of the flesh, he is not bound by the food, ceremonial, food offered to idols, tattoos, wearing of jewellery, etc., which are amoral - but he says that if a believer engages in something that upsets his conscience and is sin for him, it is better to avoid it so that he keeps his peace and not allow his faith to be upset by any condemnation bombs from the devil.

So when Paul says that all things are lawful for him, he is talking about the amoral requirements of the Mosaic Law. But he is aware that "weaker" believers may have scruples about certain things, like jewellery and tattoos and eating certain foods associated with pagan worship, so that although Paul would not worry at all about doing those things, he is aware that in the presence of a weaker brother or sister, he needs to abstain because he could influence that weaker person to copy him and therefore do something that might wound that person's conscience because although it would not be sin for Paul, in the mind of the other person it could be sin. Therefore Paul would not want to do anything that would compromise another person's faith in Christ.

In actual fact, smoking and drinking alcohol are in the same category. Some do not see doing those things is sin for them, but for others they are sin, therefore, to follow Paul's advice, it is better for a smoker or drinker to refrain in the presence of a believer with a weaker conscience. This is part of loving our brethren in Christ and not causing offence.
Thanks for your comments! @Oscarr
I can see what you are saying.
I guess for some ppl it would mean practically, Am I supposed to give family members a hard time if they happen to have tattoos? (Some ppl indeed seem to feel duty bound to do so...)
 
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Thanks for your comments! @Oscarr
I can see what you are saying.
I guess for some ppl it would mean practically, Am I supposed to give family members a hard time if they happen to have tattoos? (Some ppl indeed seem to feel duty bound to do so...)
I don't think you should give anyone a hard time if they have tattoos or piercings. My daughter has a lion tattoo on her arm and I have no problem with it. I wouldn't have one myself. My grandfather was a commercial fisherman and he had a tattoo of an anchor on his arm.

When I was training as a teacher many moons ago, our professional studies tutor taught us about "de-objectifying our personal ideals". This was because many students that we will be teaching will have totally different ideals than us, and it is not appropriate for us to force our ideals on them. This meant that if I preached the gospel to my students, I would be acting unprofessionally, and would quite rightly lose my job, because I would be using my position of authority to impress my personal ideal onto them. But we had a lunchtime Christian group in the school, and there was no problem discussing Christianity in that context because those who attended wanted to be there and to hear the gospel. But a senior student went around the school preaching to the other students, and I had to tell him to stop because it was not appropriate for him to do that during the school day.

Another example was when I used to go down to the city library on a Friday night. I got there one evening and there was a group of students from the school smoking. Some tried to hide their cigarettes from me, and told them not to, because I am only a teacher during the school day, and the school rules don't apply outside the city library on a Friday night. Of course, if they were in school uniform, it could be a different matter.

But as Christians, if a fellow believer is involved in sin, then we do have a responsibility to speak to that person, but with kindness, gentleness and humility, knowing that we are all sinners and there are times when we need a faithful brother or sister in the Lord to speak to us as well!

But in dealing with the unsaved, we are not there to criticise their morals no matter how offensive they may be to us. Our role is to share the gospel of Christ with them, that Jesus died for their sins and accepting Him as Saviour will give them eternal life.

I need to add that it is no our job to convict the unsaved of their sins. It is the Holy Spirit who has come to convict them of sin, righteousness, and judgment to come. As we share the gospel with them, and pray for them, the Holy Spirit then activates their conscience and makes them know that they are sinners deserving of hell and that they need a Saviour. They either respond and hear the gospel gladly, or they will react negatively and want to shut us down.
 
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faroukfarouk

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I don't think you should give anyone a hard time if they have tattoos. My daughter has a lion tattoo on her arm and I have no problem with it. I wouldn't have one myself. My grandfather was a commercial fisherman and he had a tattoo of a anchor on his arm.

When I was training as a teacher many moons ago, our professional studies tutor taught us about "de-objectifying our personal ideals". This was because many students that we will be teaching will have totally different ideals than us, and it is not appropriate for us to force our ideals on them. This meant that if I preached the gospel to my students, I would be acting unprofessionally, and would quite rightly lose my job, because I would be using my position of authority to impress my personal ideal onto them. But we had a lunchtime Christian group in the school, and there was no problem discussing Christianity in that context because those who attended wanted to be there and to hear the gospel. But a senior student went around the school preaching to the other students, and I had to tell him to stop because it was not appropriate for him to do that during the school day.

Another example was when I used to go down to the city library on a Friday night. I got there one evening and there was a group of students from the school smoking. Some tried to hide their cigarettes from me, and told them not to, because I am only a teacher during the school day, and the school rules don't apply outside the city library on a Friday night. Of course, if they were in school uniform, it could be a different matter.

But as Christians, if a fellow believer is involved in sin, then we do have a responsibility to speak to that person, but with kindness, gentleness and humility, knowing that we are all sinners and there are times when we need a faithful brother or sister in the Lord to speak to us as well!

But in dealing with the unsaved, we are not there to criticise their morals no matter how offensive they may be to us. Our role is to share the gospel of Christ with them, that Jesus died for their sins and accepting Him as Saviour will give them eternal life.
Thank-you, Sir. I don't believe in giving ppl a hard time over tattoos, either. But this is precisely what some people seem to be compelled to do, for "spiritual" reasons.

Anyway, in North America, apparently 59%-70% or more of parlor clients are female; and so the fact that your daughter has had herself inked up wouldn't be remotely unusual here; I don't know whether women doing it is as widespread in NZ.

My wife and I talked to a young lady with the whole of John 3.16 tattooed on her wrist area; it was her favorite Bible verse and mine also.
 
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Thank-you, Sir. I don't believe in giving ppl a hard time over tattoos, either. But this is precisely what some people seem to be compelled to do, for "spiritual" reasons.

Anyway, in North America, apparently 59%-70% or more of parlor clients are female; and so the fact that your daughter has had herself inked up wouldn't be remotely unusual here; I don't know whether women doing it is as widespread in NZ.

My wife and I talked to a young lady with the whole of John 3.16 tattooed on her wrist area; it was her favorite Bible verse and mine also.
I think it is as widespread here in NZ as it is over there.

Concerning persecution, I think that much persecution comes because zealous and extremist believers try to dictate their own moral and religious ideals on their unsaved family members and friends. I think that the negative response and persecution is self-inflicted and well-deserved. These extremist believers will say that they are being rejected and persecuted because of the gospel, but I don't believe that. They are getting a hard time because of their unwise conduct. I had a Christian friend announce loudly that he lost his job because of his Christian witness. I knew that because he was a zealot, he lost his job because he spent more time preaching to his workmates instead of doing the job he was paid for.
 
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faroukfarouk

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I think it is as widespread her in NZ as it is over there.

Concerning persecution, I think that much persecution comes because zealous and extremist believers try to dictate their own moral and religious ideals on their unsaved family members and friends. I think that the negative response and persecution is self-inflicted and well-deserved. These extremist believers will say that they are being rejected and persecuted because of the gospel, but I don't believe that. They are getting a hard time because of their unwise conduct. I had a Christian friend announce loudly that he lost his job because of his Christian witness. I knew that because he was a zealot, he lost his job because he spent more time preaching to his workmates instead of doing the job he was paid for.
I do concur about the unwise behaviour of some zealous Christians.

Tattoos used to be a man thing almost exclusively for years (at least, in North America; I can't speak for Maori/Polynesian customs). It's now become also a highly womanly thing to do.
 
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Thank-you, Sir. I don't believe in giving ppl a hard time over tattoos, either. But this is precisely what some people seem to be compelled to do, for "spiritual" reasons.

Anyway, in North America, apparently 59%-70% or more of parlor clients are female; and so the fact that your daughter has had herself inked up wouldn't be remotely unusual here; I don't know whether women doing it is as widespread in NZ.

My wife and I talked to a young lady with the whole of John 3.16 tattooed on her wrist area; it was her favorite Bible verse and mine also.
In addition, I do have concerns when someone gets demonic images and other really spooky stuff tattooed on them. I think that it indicates something deeper that is going on with them. It is also interesting that when young people who get tattoos, regret having them when they get older and resort to laser treatment to get rid of them.

We have Maori and Samoan people in our country who get cultural tattoos, and I think that is generally acceptable.
 
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I do concur about the unwise behaviour of some zealous Christians.

Tattoos used to be a man thing almost exclusively for years (at least, in North America; I can't speak for Maori/Polynesian customs). It's now become also a highly womanly thing to do.
It would be interesting if a person had demonic images or spooky stuff tattoos, that if they received Christ, they would get laser treatment to erase them. That might show a particular fruit of repentence.
 
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faroukfarouk

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It would be interesting if a person had demonic images or spooky stuff tattoos, that if they received Christ, they would get laser treatment to erase them. That might show a particular fruit of repentence.
I can see what you mean.

Someone on here referred to a man with a tattoo of a nude, who was converted. He then arranged for a bikini to be tattooed onto the nude.
 
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