What about Piracy?

[Inbox24]

Is piracy wrong in God's eyes? Because everyone at my school uses copied software (and so do some churches!) and just the other night I threw out all my copied software.

 

[God Child]

piracy=stealing
stealing=sin

 

[setzie]

piracy=stealing
stealing=sin

I wouldn't go that far.

Actually if you speak of stealing then you often speak of stealing a material thing. I mean I don't wanna say piracy isn't stealing. Just that the argument isn't that straight forward.

By law piracy is pretty much the same as stealing but you have to consider that it's a legal construct in order to help software programmers to protect their ideas. For example, if you take an old book by Shakespeare and copy it then it's not stealing according to the law, cause the protection lasts about 25 ( or 50 or 75 ? ) years after the death of the author. But If you copy something from a new book by Shakespeare ( where the spelling of the words was edited for example ) then it would be still stealing according to the law.

And on the top of that there are different laws in different countries. I know that in some Eastern European countries it lasted several years before piracy laws were implemented. Hence in the first years piracy was not illegal. So a person would not commit a sin before the law is passed, but the person would commit a sin after the law is passed. I can't imagine the definition of a sin sticking so strict to the human laws.

 

[invisible trousers]

Piracy is not stealing. You guys should learn the basics of copyright law.

 

[Shizzle]

Whether or not its against the law doesnt matter, why would it

Stealing = when you gain and someone else loses as a direct result

Id say that if you wouldve bought that cd instead of downloading, it would be stealing. Yet if you would have never bought it, i dont think its a sin.

 

[SorensScapegoat]

Piracy is not stealing. You guys should learn the basics of copyright law.

Um, you sure about that? I suppose in a technical sense you could not call piracy a conversion, in that the property is still available to its owner, but certainly a copyright is a property and piracy infringes on that property right. So perhaps, piracy is more akin to trespass, but I think the prior post's point was that piracy is a means of appropriating someone else's property for one's own use without their consent, which seems to fit the "Thou shalt not steal" definition of stealing fairly well.

--S

 

[SorensScapegoat]

Whether or not its against the law doesnt matter, why would it

Stealing = when you gain and someone else loses as a direct result

Id say that if you wouldve bought that cd instead of downloading, it would be stealing. Yet if you would have never bought it, i dont think its a sin.

1. I totally agree with the first point, morality and law should be totally separate things.

2. I'm not sure I follow your second point. If you would never have bought the cd, but downloaded it anyway how is that not stealing? You are still taking for your own use something that rightfully belongs to another.

If your critique is more oriented to whether or not a person should have a property right in songs, works of literature and the like that's an entirely different issue worth exploring.

 

[Shizzle]

2. I'm not sure I follow your second point. If you would never have bought the cd, but downloaded it anyway how is that not stealing? You are still taking for your own use something that rightfully belongs to another.

No, you arent taking it because they still have it... Its different from stealing because you gain, no one loses. Only one affect, Gain, opposed to you gaining and someone else losing.
The problem comes when you cant accurately discern whether you would buy it or not, or if somewhere in the future you would have bought it.

If your critique is more oriented to whether or not a person should have a property right in songs, works of literature and the like that's an entirely different issue worth exploring.

not really what i meant, i think the property rights should lie with the one who made the thing.

 

[porcupine]

The Scripture tells us that the workman is worthy of his hire and that no one should opress the hireling in his wages. When you take somebody's work product (music, programs, etc.) that they are selling and that they have indicated by copyrighting it that they want to preserve the right to sell it, you are stealing his work. That is sin. It matters not whether the man is rich or poor.

 

[invisible trousers]

Piracy is copyright infringement. Copyright infringement is not theft. Downloading an album from [insert p2p network here] is copyright infringement. Breaking into a Virgin Megastore and jacking the new N'Sync boxset is theft. However, it's possible to make a moral argument that they're both the same, but legally they're very different.

 

[Forest]

Is piracy wrong in God's eyes? Because everyone at my school uses copied software (and so do some churches!) and just the other night I threw out all my copied software.

If you are talking about using copied software that you did not buy that was for sale, then you did the right thing.

 

[Jamza]

Oooh arrrrrgh I tell ye laddie, piracy be illegal; except if ye wear the proper attire. Eyepatches, wooden legs, skull and crossbones hat and a hooked hand are all vital, with parrots being desirable accessories.

 

[Shizzle]

Oooh arrrrrgh I tell ye laddie, piracy be illegal; except if ye wear the proper attire. Eyepatches, wooden legs, skull and crossbones hat and a hooked hand are all vital, with parrots being desirable accessories.

i agree totally, i believe if were dressed in the proper attire, that nothing is wrong.

 

[Dmckay]

Is piracy wrong in God's eyes? Because everyone at my school uses copied software (and so do some churches!) and just the other night I threw out all my copied software.

Good for you. You're right it is a real problem, especially for the Church. Since much of the software that churches need for record keeping has to be designed specifically for their use the cost is often very prohibitive, especially for small churches with tight budgets.

Some of the better Bible Study materials are rediculously priced. Like Logos, I know many Pastors that use it. Very often they have installed it on every computer in their Church for all the staff to be able to use. They don't seem to realize that if they didn't purchase a site license for the software they are in violation of the copyright laws, and are stealing.

 

[katherine2001]

Ys, piracy is stealing. As porcupine said, every time you download something off the internet for free, the author of the books, the people who made a movie (director, producer, actors, etc), or the artist of an album or song don't get the money for their work. As porcupine said, they are being deprived of wages they should have made. For many struggling authors, actors (and producers and directors), and musical artists (be it instrumental or vocal) need every penny they can make (in other words, they are like most of us and are not rich).

Just because something is not against the law does not mean that it is moral and something a Christian should be doing. Abortions and inappropriate contentography are legal, but a Christian shouldn't be doing either one. Should a Christian doctor or nurse participate in performing abortion since it's legal?

 

[Shizzle]

but what if you would have never bought that product, then no one loses anything

 

[porcupine]

but what if you would have never bought that product, then no one loses anything

I'm not sure what you mean, but there is such a thing in law as "intellectual property" and "artistic property" and "work product." If the law says someone owns this work, then it is theft to take it without permission -- permission being granted when one pays the asking price.
If it was a property you never bought, but got your copy from the Internet, it changes nothing. The artist or producer loses a sale.

 

[daveleau]

Is piracy wrong in God's eyes? Because everyone at my school uses copied software (and so do some churches!) and just the other night I threw out all my copied software.

The issue of materials (like cars, watches, computers, music, software, etc) is that the person that created it either gives freely or asks for compensation. We are to honor that request, if the person requests compensation. If we do not honor that request and take freely without regard to that request, then we are stealing (regardless of the price of the item or the amount of money that the people have that we are stealing from). The only time that stealing is justified is in life or death situations. If you are about to starve (starvation is all-but eradicated in the US), then you can steal from the people who have plenty, if they will not give freely to you. It is a last resort issue. No one needs music or software in this way. If you have copied software or music (and are not truly backing it up to preserve the original that you personally paid for), then you are breaking the commandment of God telling us not to steal.

It's a cut and dry issue that people try to muddle up with all kinds of modern day casuistry. The Jewish used all kinds of laws called casuistry to get out of things. This is happening again today in our society with all of the people who try to justify stealing music and software. If you need these items, pay for them. There is no justification for not doing otherwise.

 

[God Child]

i agree totally, i believe if were dressed in the proper attire, that nothing is wrong.

matthew 23

25"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For (AA)you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence.
26"You blind Pharisee, first (AB)clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may become clean also.

yep lol lets just all wear the proper clothing lol

 

[Shizzle]

yep lol lets just all wear the proper clothing lol

thats what i said

I'm not sure what you mean, but there is such a thing in law as "intellectual property" and "artistic property" and "work product." If the law says someone owns this work, then it is theft to take it without permission -- permission being granted when one pays the asking price.

laws and morality should be kept seperate, laws are of this world, whereas morality is not.

If it was a property you never bought, but got your copy from the Internet, it changes nothing. The artist or producer loses a sale.

They dont lose anything if you never would have bought that otherwise.
but then its hard to judge whether we would have or would havent.