West Virginia Fire Chief Fired For Wearing 'All Lives Splatter' Shirt

[SummerMadness]

West Virginia Fire Chief Fired For Wearing 'All Lives Splatter' Shirt Depicting Car Running Over Protesters

A West Virginia Fire Chief has been fired after he was found to have made a number of "inappropriate and inflammatory" social media posts about the George Floyd protesters.

Governor Jim Justice confirmed that he has removed Martin Hess from the West Virginia State Fire Commission after he became aware of multiple social media posts on his profile.

 

[Sparagmos]

West Virginia Fire Chief Fired For Wearing 'All Lives Splatter' Shirt Depicting Car Running Over Protesters

And he said he “didn’t mean to upset anyone”?! How many decisions did this guy make from a place of bigotry that hurt or hindered people?

 

[Chesterton]

Pretty vague article. Doesn't say whether he was fired for having a different opinion from the ironically named Governor Justice, or for making jokes in bad taste. I don't want to live in a world where it's acceptable to fire people for either reason. All I want from a fire chief is that he be a good fire chief. Likewise, if my dentist disagrees politically with me, or makes bad jokes, I'll still go to him if he's a good dentist.

 

[JustSomeBloke]

@SummerMadness and @Sparagmos

How do you feel when someone loses their job because they said the wrong thing or wrote the wrong thing on social media?

Is it a cause for celebration when someone is fired for saying the wrong thing?

Do you feel sad that someone just lost their job?

Do you feel that they deserved to lose their job?

Do you ever wonder if they have any dependants who rely on that job for food, clothing, and a home?

Do you think that there should be a law that enforces mandatory sacking for anyone who says the wrong thing or writes the wrong thing on social media?

Do you feel that you would be a good judge of who should lose their job?

Do you feel superior when you point out other's wrong doing?

Do you think making a huge public scene on social media, as often happens on Twitter when someone says the wrong thing, helps an employer to deal with an employee in a rational proportionate manner?

Have you ever lost your job and panicked about how you will pay all the bills and provide for others who are dependant on your income?


In case you are wondering, I'm not particularly trying to have a go at either of you. I'm just trying to get you to think about the severe consequences of sudden job loss, and whether a sacking is proportionate for someone who said the wrong thing.

One last question:

Do you think that there might be other, less drastic means, of dealing with someone who says the wrong thing?

As the saying goes 'An eye for an eye, and the whole world goes blind'.

 

[disciple Clint]

@SummerMadness and @Sparagmos

How do you feel when someone loses their job because they said the wrong thing or wrote the wrong thing on social media?

Is it a cause for celebration when someone is fired for saying the wrong thing?

Do you feel sad that someone just lost their job?

Do you feel that they deserved to lose their job?

Do you ever wonder if they have any dependants who rely on that job for food, clothing, and a home?

Do you think that there should be a law that enforces mandatory sacking for anyone who says the wrong thing or writes the wrong thing on social media?

Do you feel that you would be a good judge of who should lose their job?

Do you feel superior when you point out other's wrong doing?

Do you think making a huge public scene on social media, as often happens on Twitter when someone says the wrong thing, helps an employer to deal with an employee in a rational proportionate manner?

Have you ever lost your job and panicked about how you will pay all the bills and provide for others who are dependant on your income?


In case you are wondering, I'm not particularly trying to have a go at either of you. I'm just trying to get you to think about the severe consequences of sudden job loss, and whether a sacking is proportionate for someone who said the wrong thing.

One last question:

Do you think that there might be other, less drastic means, of dealing with someone who says the wrong thing?

As the saying goes 'An eye for an eye, and the whole world goes blind'.

Read the comments on that article and then ask Where is all the hate coming from?

 

[variant]

@SummerMadness and @Sparagmos

How do you feel when someone loses their job because they said the wrong thing or wrote the wrong thing on social media?

Is it a cause for celebration when someone is fired for saying the wrong thing?

Do you feel sad that someone just lost their job?

Do you feel that they deserved to lose their job?

Do you ever wonder if they have any dependants who rely on that job for food, clothing, and a home?

Do you think that there should be a law that enforces mandatory sacking for anyone who says the wrong thing or writes the wrong thing on social media?

Do you feel that you would be a good judge of who should lose their job?

Do you feel superior when you point out other's wrong doing?

Do you think making a huge public scene on social media, as often happens on Twitter when someone says the wrong thing, helps an employer to deal with an employee in a rational proportionate manner?

Have you ever lost your job and panicked about how you will pay all the bills and provide for others who are dependant on your income?


In case you are wondering, I'm not particularly trying to have a go at either of you. I'm just trying to get you to think about the severe consequences of sudden job loss, and whether a sacking is proportionate for someone who said the wrong thing.

One last question:

Do you think that there might be other, less drastic means, of dealing with someone who says the wrong thing?

As the saying goes 'An eye for an eye, and the whole world goes blind'.

You seem to upset that people are held accountable for the things they say and do.

The world's a tough place, get used to it.

 

[Sparagmos]

How do you feel when someone loses their job because they said the wrong thing or wrote the wrong thing on social media?

I’ve only seen this happen for statements I’d consider to be really extreme, and damaging, and I have been in support. As far as I can recall, in most cases the statement or action involved racism.

Is it a cause for celebration when someone is fired for saying the wrong thing?

Do you feel sad that someone just lost their job?

Do you feel that they deserved to lose their job?

Do you ever wonder if they have any dependants who rely on that job for food, clothing, and a home?

I’ve been happy that a bad person who made hurtful public statements on social media lost their job before, yes.

No, I don’t feel sad when a bigot loses their job for being a mean person. On rare occasion, people need to lose their job to learn about what is appropriate. People lose their job for unjust reasons all the time, and that does upset me very much. But we are talking about bullies and abusers here. They need to be ostracized, not coddled.

Case in point - I am thrilled that this fireman, who clearly has a sadistic bent, is no longer in a position of power. Bigots should not be in a position of power, ever.

Do you wonder about dependents who need to be fed when a person gets caught stealing and is fired? We’re talking about gross misconduct. I’m a union rep. Part of my job is fighting unjust discipline and firings. I’m well versed in the law and philosophy around just termination. If a person knows their behavior is not acceptable by the employer, and the rule in question is fair, then appropriate discipline is just. In a lot of these instances, people reveal themselves to have biases or attitudes towards other human beings that are repugnant. Those biases will inevitably affect a person’s behavior at work and treatment of coworkers. Character matters.

Do you think that there should be a law that enforces mandatory sacking for anyone who says the wrong thing or writes the wrong thing on social media?

. Absolutely not, that would be a violation of the first amendment.

Do you feel that you would be a good judge of who should lose their job?

I suppose that because of the kind of work I do I have become a good judge on the matter. It’s something I contemplate and weigh a lot. But that’s not really relevant here.

Do you feel superior when you point out other's wrong doing?

Perhaps we all do. It’s human nature.

Do you think making a huge public scene on social media, as often happens on Twitter when someone says the wrong thing, helps an employer to deal with an employee in a rational proportionate manner?

I don’t really care about helping the employer, to be honest. People make a stink so that the employer feels obligated to do something. That’s the point. Often, employers don’t care and it is only the social pressure that gets them to do the right thing.

Have you ever lost your job and panicked about how you will pay all the bills and provide for others who are dependant on your income?

No, I’ve never been fired or laid off. But I represent about 1,000 people who are laid off right now and I spend hours each day dealing with the effects and fighting so that they don’t fall through the cracks.

In case you are wondering, I'm not particularly trying to have a go at either of you. I'm just trying to get you to think about the severe consequences of sudden job loss, and whether a sacking is proportionate for someone who said the wrong thing.

. I am acutely aware of the impacts of job loss. I simply think that public racism and/or bullying are as serious as stealing or drinking on the job. If a person, for instance, expresses extreme disrespect for women on social media and makes rape jokes then I don’t feel that women should have to work with that man. People get fired for so much less these days. People get fired just for being absentminded or for not kowtowing appropriately to customers and supervisors. Does that bother you as much?

Do you think that there might be other, less drastic means, of dealing with someone who says the wrong thing?

. Well it depends on what they said, of course. Sadistic remarks/ jokes, made publicly, about running protesters over, while simultaneously mocking black lives matter? This guy is an idiot and shouldn’t be in charge of anything or anyone.

 

[disciple Clint]

I’ve only seen this happen for statements I’d consider to be really extreme, and damaging, and I have been in support. As far as I can recall, in most cases the statement or action involved racism.



I’ve been happy that a bad person who made hurtful public statements on social media lost their job before, yes.

No, I don’t feel sad when a bigot loses their job for being a mean person. On rare occasion, people need to lose their job to learn about what is appropriate. People lose their job for unjust reasons all the time, and that does upset me very much. But we are talking about bullies and abusers here. They need to be ostracized, not coddled.

Case in point - I am thrilled that this fireman, who clearly has a sadistic bent, is no longer in a position of power. Bigots should not be in a position of power, ever.

Do you wonder about dependents who need to be fed when a person gets caught stealing and is fired? We’re talking about gross misconduct. I’m a union rep. Part of my job is fighting unjust discipline and firings. I’m well versed in the law and philosophy around just termination. If a person knows their behavior is not acceptable by the employer, and the rule in question is fair, then appropriate discipline is just. In a lot of these instances, people reveal themselves to have biases or attitudes towards other human beings that are repugnant. Those biases will inevitably affect a person’s behavior at work and treatment of coworkers. Character matters.

. Absolutely not, that would be a violation of the first amendment.

I suppose that because of the kind of work I do I have become a good judge on the matter. It’s something I contemplate and weigh a lot. But that’s not really relevant here.

Perhaps we all do. It’s human nature.

I don’t really care about helping the employer, to be honest. People make a stink so that the employer feels obligated to do something. That’s the point. Often, employers don’t care and it is only the social pressure that gets them to do the right thing.

No, I’ve never been fired or laid off. But I represent about 1,000 people who are laid off right now and I spend hours each day dealing with the effects and fighting so that they don’t fall through the cracks.

. I am acutely aware of the impacts of job loss. I simply think that public racism and/or bullying are as serious as stealing or drinking on the job. If a person, for instance, expresses extreme disrespect for women on social media and makes rape jokes then I don’t feel that women should have to work with that man. People get fired for so much less these days. People get fired just for being absentminded or for not kowtowing appropriately to customers and supervisors. Does that bother you as much?

. Well it depends on what they said, of course. Sadistic remarks/ jokes, made publicly, about running protesters over, while simultaneously mocking black lives matter? This guy is an idiot and shouldn’t be in charge of anything or anyone.

At what point does social pressure interfere with freedom of speech. This seems to be a problem on campus when people will not allow a speaker with a conservative view speak.

 

[Sparagmos]

At what point does social pressure interfere with freedom of speech. This seems to be a problem on campus when people will not allow a speaker with a conservative view speak.

Freedom of speech means the Government can’t stop speech, unless that speech is dangerous. But you don’t have freedom of speech with your employer, and other people have a right to petition private entities not to invite certain speakers. So I’m not sure how social pressure is interfering with free speech, can you elaborate?

 

[disciple Clint]

Freedom of speech means the Government can’t stop speech, unless that speech is dangerous. But you don’t have freedom of speech with your employer, and other people have a right to petition private entities not to invite certain speakers. So I’m not sure how social pressure is interfering with free speech, can you elaborate?

When should the things you do in your own time be acted on by your employer and where does that stop?
Conservative suppression on campus turns parents away from colleges
Year of the Shout-Down: Worse Than You Think for Campus Free Speech | National Review

 

[Sparagmos]

When should the things you do in your own time be acted on by your employer and where does that stop?
Conservative suppression on campus turns parents away from colleges
Year of the Shout-Down: Worse Than You Think for Campus Free Speech | National Review

In most states you can be fired for any reason. Including “what you do on your own time.” Do you think every worker should have just cause protection like union workers do?

Can you really not see that your character is something that you take to work with you? If you are a racist bully outside of work, you are a racist bully at work, maybe you just try to hide it a little.

 

[disciple Clint]

In most states you can be fired for any reason. Including “what you do on your own time.” Do you think every worker should have just cause protection like union workers do?

Can you really not see that your character is something that you take to work with you? If you are a racist bully outside of work, you are a racist bully at work, maybe you just try to hide it a little.

Your focus may be a little too narrow, we have conservatives who work in liberal companies who have been terminated because of their political positions, is that fair? How about people who boycott stores who close on Sundays for religious reasons, is that fair?

 

[Kaon]

West Virginia Fire Chief Fired For Wearing 'All Lives Splatter' Shirt Depicting Car Running Over Protesters

I LOVE when people expose themselves so openly because they are so used to being surrounded by the same company. It also exposes the people who think like them.

All lives splatter is new, but it just shows how incredibly weak America is to be manipulated into killing its own citizens to appeal to constituency. And, to think, if America was a real nation with a national identity and mutual respect for the citizens, a foreign nation wouldn't be able to so destabilize the States so easily. All it took as 224 years... even "primative" nations have done better than America with respect to longevity.

 

[disciple Clint]

I LOVE when people expose themselves so openly because they are so used to being surrounded by the same company. It also exposes the people who think like them.

All lives splatter is new, but it just shows how incredibly weak America is to be manipulated into killing its own citizens to appeal to constituency. And, to think, if America was a real nation with a national identity and mutual respect for the citizens, a foreign nation wouldn't be able to so destabilize the States so easily. All it took as 224 years... even "primative" nations have done better than America with respect to longevity.

you should be happy you are in America because statements like what you have just made would get you locked up in some nations, in some it would just get you executed. Thank God for America

 

[Goonie]

Welcome to the land of the free! The fire chief was free to share his hate filled murder supporting posts, and his employer was free to fire him.

 

[JustSomeBloke]

I’ve only seen this happen for statements I’d consider to be really extreme, and damaging, and I have been in support. As far as I can recall, in most cases the statement or action involved racism.

I think we can all agree that racism is wrong. But Christianity teaches that we are all sinners, we do not deserve redemption, and yet God gives it to us freely. It's only in the largely secular sphere of SJW activism that racism is considered the 'ultimate wrong', and has the status of 'unforgivable act' or 'unforgiveable thought'.

I’ve been happy that a bad person who made hurtful public statements on social media lost their job before, yes.

Why be happy? On the scale of life changing events, job loss is high on the list for most people. It's going to severely damage their life chances. Why rejoice in the misfortune or impending misery of others? What good does it do?

No, I don’t feel sad when a bigot loses their job for being a mean person. On rare occasion, people need to lose their job to learn about what is appropriate. People lose their job for unjust reasons all the time, and that does upset me very much. But we are talking about bullies and abusers here. They need to be ostracized, not coddled.

Case in point - I am thrilled that this fireman, who clearly has a sadistic bent, is no longer in a position of power. Bigots should not be in a position of power, ever.

I would say that firing someone is a wasted opportunity. Many times it will probably just create a bitter, confused person who only learned to keep their views private. Far better to try and educate them as part of disciplinary proceedings. Although I can accept that when someone does the same thing 3-4 times and is on their last warning then firing them may be the only course of action left. Educating people isn't 'coddling' them, it's helping them to be a better, more aware, more responsible person.

Do you wonder about dependents who need to be fed when a person gets caught stealing and is fired? We’re talking about gross misconduct. I’m a union rep. Part of my job is fighting unjust discipline and firings. I’m well versed in the law and philosophy around just termination. If a person knows their behavior is not acceptable by the employer, and the rule in question is fair, then appropriate discipline is just. In a lot of these instances, people reveal themselves to have biases or attitudes towards other human beings that are repugnant. Those biases will inevitably affect a person’s behavior at work and treatment of coworkers. Character matters.

OK. I understand. You have zero empathy for others who may be caught up in the fallout of a firing.

. Absolutely not, that would be a violation of the first amendment.

You say that firing should not be legally mandatory, but you seem to support firing as an extra-judicial punishment administered outside of a court of law. And it is a harsh punishment, because the impact will be so severe.

I suppose that because of the kind of work I do I have become a good judge on the matter. It’s something I contemplate and weigh a lot. But that’s not really relevant here.

Perhaps we all do. It’s human nature.

You are right. We all do. Judging people is one of the weaknesses we all have as humans. And if I'm totally honest I'm probably doing it a little here myself, while trying my best not to. But I think we have a duty to reign it in, show empathy and compassion, and forgive others as they forgive us.

I don’t really care about helping the employer, to be honest. People make a stink so that the employer feels obligated to do something. That’s the point. Often, employers don’t care and it is only the social pressure that gets them to do the right thing.

If the employer isn't reacting to complaints, then that would be a fault of the employer and their employment procedures, or (lack of) application of their procedures. As someone who says they work in this area you should know that.

Of course it would be quite possible to name the employer on social media, and the alleged behaviour of the employer, but without revealing the identity of the employee. But that doesn't happen, and I suspect it's because the baying online mob just want the blood (job) of the employee. No matter what someone has done, vindictiveness is always an ugly human emotion. But in your own words 'you don't really care'.

No, I’ve never been fired or laid off. But I represent about 1,000 people who are laid off right now and I spend hours each day dealing with the effects and fighting so that they don’t fall through the cracks.

Even after working with people who are losing their jobs, you still have so little empathy or compassion for the impact of job loss! Yes, they did wrong, but there are usually better, much more constructive ways to deal with it than a firing.

. I am acutely aware of the impacts of job loss. I simply think that public racism and/or bullying are as serious as stealing or drinking on the job. If a person, for instance, expresses extreme disrespect for women on social media and makes rape jokes then I don’t feel that women should have to work with that man. People get fired for so much less these days. People get fired just for being absentminded or for not kowtowing appropriately to customers and supervisors. Does that bother you as much?

It's always concerning if people are fired without being given a chance to improve. In Christianity most people believe that repentance is a journey rather than an act.

. Well it depends on what they said, of course. Sadistic remarks/ jokes, made publicly, about running protesters over, while simultaneously mocking black lives matter? This guy is an idiot and shouldn’t be in charge of anything or anyone.

How much of that is a crime in law, or should be a crime? I'll agree that it's inappropriate, offensive, and tasteless, but I still think that firing is disproportionate, particularly for a first incident. People who have done wrong need to be given education, training, and a chance to change. That's how you help them to become better people. Firing them will probably just make them bitter, confused people, who change their behaviour outwardly, but not inwardly, and for all the wrong reasons.

Lastly, I apologise for not putting much effort in to my responses. I used to be much more hard hearted than I am now, but I have mellowed a lot, and learned to be more forgiving of others, and to have compassion and empathy, even for those who have done serious wrong. But I can tell by your tone that you are not yet ready to change. Maybe you never will change, or maybe it will only happen when you experience some kind of life changing event yourself.

I'll leave you with something to think about. This man is a good example to all of us. Despite being a victim, he managed to control himself.
Man who filmed viral video says he’s “uncomfortable” with “Central Park Karen” receiving so much hate and losing her job

“If our goal is to change the underlying factors, I am not sure that this young woman having her life completely torn apart serves that goal.”

“I find it strange that people who were upset that ... that she tried to bring death by cop down on my head, would then turn around and try to put death threats on her head. Where is the logic in that?” he said. “Where does that make any kind of sense?”

 

[Kaon]

you should be happy you are in America because statements like what you have just made would get you locked up in some nations, in some it would just get you executed. Thank God for America

Your perception is off - about many things here. The Most High has nothing to do with America killing its own citizens in the streets, and other Americans applauding it. Human ego believe it will not be judged, which is why this happens. It's the serpentine part of the brain. If I was black I most likely would be executed by US law enforcement for saying what I said - which should scare a citizen (but, it's America, so we applaud death).

America is collapsing because people would rather hold on to their prejudices and dance over citizens being killed in the street like animals, not because of my speech and the rights that protect it. America has bad this problem for centuries, pretending that if money was thrown at the problems it would go away.

People who care about other people don't apologize for their murder in public. They dont bring up inflated statistics to deflect from the way a life was lost - suggesting the dead person did something wrong.

Americans having to be reminded by the world that Black Lives Matter should be embarrassing, but then again the USA "sics" heavily armed domestic force for protesters while he hides in a bunker. Black life is always politicised in the States by the same people that deny their oppression.

I can't convince any adult of anything, or reprogram an adult to care about human life. That is on you; if you don't care then just say it. Don't make up convoluted arguments of distraction about political climate when people are getting murdered on the street by law enforcement. That most can't get this shows how disconnected we are when it comes to blacks. And, all we seem to do is apologize for their demise.

When America falls, no one will be there to save us because we would have let them all die thinking it's only happening to people who don't matter. If America actually confronted it's racist past and future instead of ignoring it, maybe the US wouldn't be subjected to complete collapse via exploration of prejudices - an almost 80 year destabilization program.

You can tell a lot about a country based on how it treats its lowest class citizens. America murders them, and apologizes for the action that lead to death. Other nations see how Americans treat their own citizens, and capitalize off of it.

 

[disciple Clint]

Your perception is off - about many things here. The Most High has nothing to do with America killing its own citizens in the streets, and other Americans applauding it. Human ego believe it will not be judged, which is why this happens. It's the serpentine part of the brain. If I was black I most likely would be executed by US law enforcement for saying what I said - which should scare a citizen (but, it's America, so we applaud death).

America is collapsing because people would rather hold on to their prejudices and dance over citizens being killed in the street like animals, not because of my speech and the rights that protect it. America has bad this problem for centuries, pretending that if money was thrown at the problems it would go away.

People who care about other people don't apologize for their murder in public. They dont bring up inflated statistics to deflect from the way a life was lost - suggesting the dead person did something wrong.

Americans having to be reminded by the world that Black Lives Matter should be embarrassing, but then again the USA "sics" heavily armed domestic force for protesters while he hides in a bunker. Black life is always politicised in the States by the same people that deny their oppression.

I can't convince any adult of anything, or reprogram an adult to care about human life. That is on you; if you don't care then just say it. Don't make up convoluted arguments of distraction about political climate when people are getting murdered on the street by law enforcement. That most can't get this shows how disconnected we are when it comes to blacks. And, all we seem to do is apologize for their demise.

When America falls, no one will be there to save us because we would have let them all die thinking it's only happening to people who don't matter. If America actually confronted it's racist past and future instead of ignoring it, maybe the US wouldn't be subjected to complete collapse via exploration of prejudices - an almost 80 year destabilization program.

You can tell a lot about a country based on how it treats its lowest class citizens. America murders them, and apologizes for the action that lead to death. Other nations see how Americans treat their own citizens, and capitalize off of it.

I have provided you with facts to support my contention that your conclusions are overstated. Can you provide any evidence to support your conclusions, in the end the facts are what matters.

 

[Kaon]

I have provided you with facts to support my contention that your conclusions are overstated. Can you provide any evidence to support your conclusions, in the end the facts are what matters.

No you didnt; you still dance around the issue of why Black citizens in America are being killed weekly, often by law enforcement and sometimes civilians, while the rest of the nation apologizes and applauds - including the president. You didn't give any evidence except to say I should mind my right lest I forget about the possible demise I would incur if I lived somewhere else.

You are an adult; if you find other people to be stupid, lazy, animals, failures, etc. then that is on you, but don't try to make a argument tangentially related to the preservation off human life in the US as if I don't have my own eyes, libraries at my disposal, and an active reconnaissance of what I am talking about. I am not waitin for you to tell me I have valid justification to believe what I believe because I am not stupid or ignorant. You could always be transparent and sincere instead of making it seem like you have more sentiment for human life than its political substance. But sincerity requires responsibility, not a "black people always complain about something that doesn't exist" mentality. The rest of the world marches for black lives in America except the Americans who think they aren't affected. That should be embarrassing; that it isn't to half of the American population highlights why America is collapsing.

 

[Kaon]

Pretty vague article. Doesn't say whether he was fired for having a different opinion from the ironically named Governor Justice, or for making jokes in bad taste. I don't want to live in a world where it's acceptable to fire people for either reason. All I want from a fire chief is that he be a good fire chief. Likewise, if my dentist disagrees politically with me, or makes bad jokes, I'll still go to him if he's a good dentist.

Dentists don't have authority to kill you, and get off. The message was more than a joke in poor taste; the officer presented exactly what he intended to show; not all Americans are blind as a bat.