wesleyan sacramental theology

[FireDragon76]

I would like to understand Wesleyan sacramental theology, specifically the understanding of baptism.

What does baptism do?

I was raised Methodist but I was told baptism was basically a christening. It was never emphasized clearly. It seemed to be a naming ceremony or rite of passage.

I am a Lutheran now because I believe in baptismal regeneration and it was unclear what Methodists believe. They seem to believe that a conversion experience initiated by the human will is what saves, with baptism imparting a prevenient, but not saving, grace. I believe baptism itself saves through water combined with the Word. I do not believe the grace itself is merely prevenient.

 

[1watchman]

Well, I am not clear as to what you might believe, but I am very sure that baptism is taking a stand with Jesus Christ against the unbelieving world, and honors Him; and is not a way of salvation. One who wants to obey God and honor His Son, will gladly take a stand with Him as such a public testimony. This is without regard to various religious sects of men.

The only means of salvation is in receiving God's "...beloved Son" into one's heart, and being devoted to Him as one's Savior, and Lord of their life. That will bring the sealing of the Holy Spirit in one and presence of the triune God with one forever (see 1 Jn. 5:10-12 and John 3).

Making Jesus Christ our best Friend will then bring joy, peace, and assurance in all our sojourn in this world, and life eternal with Him in the Father's house forever (note John 14).

 

[FireDragon76]

Well, I am not clear as to what you might believe, but I am very sure that baptism is taking a stand with Jesus Christ against the unbelieving world, and honors Him; and is not a way of salvation. One who wants to obey God and honor His Son, will gladly take a stand with Him as such a public testimony. This is without regard to various religious sects of men.

The only means of salvation is in receiving God's "...beloved Son" into one's heart, and being devoted to Him as one's Savior, and Lord of their life. That will bring the sealing of the Holy Spirit in one and presence of the triune God with one forever (see 1 Jn. 5:10-12 and John 3).

Making Jesus Christ our best Friend will then bring joy, peace, and assurance in all our sojourn in this world, and life eternal with Him in the Father's house forever (note John 14).

Are you a Wesleyan? If not, your comments are a waste of bandwith. I am a Lutheran and I wish to discuss Wesleyan doctrine, not to be lectured on the "plan of salvation".

 

[1watchman]

I'm sorry you were offended about my comments, firey dragon, which were only as to your apparent confusion about Baptism, and your question: "What does baptism do?". Apparently you did not want a response.

 

[Christie insb]

Is this thread still active? I have a Lutheran background but today I went to a Free Methodist church. We are church hunting. It seemed *okay*. But what do Wesleyans believe about baptism and communion? My understanding about beliefs about baptism is that some churches believe God takes action in baptism and communion, and others believe we do it in obedience to Jesus' command. I imagine there are other ways to look at it. So, what do Free Methodists think they are doing when they baptize someone? Do they baptise babies?

 

[tampasteve]

Yes, they Baptize babies. Officially Methodists believe Communion and Baptism are the two sacraments, much as Lutherans do. Communion is similar to Lutheran belief, but in practice it seems many (most?) are more of a memorial belief than any sort of Real Presence, and in several Methodist churches I have been to they only do communion once in a great while (quarterly perhaps). Officially they believe communion and baptism are means of Grace, but again, in practice it seems that many lean towards a more non-denominational belief in these.

 

[JCFantasy23]

Communion is similar to Lutheran belief, but in practice it seems many (most?) are more of a memorial belief than any sort of Real Presence, and in several Methodist churches I have been to they only do communion once in a great while (quarterly perhaps). Officially they believe communion and baptism are means of Grace, but again, in practice it seems that many lean towards a more non-denominational belief in these.

I've heard of that in some areas. In the south where I live, and out of all the Methodist churches I've visited (most in this area), it's usually monthly. Some do twice a month.

I was raised Methodist but I was told baptism was basically a christening

I've never seen it viewed as a christening. It is viewed as a sacrament and an important one. This link may be helpful for you, By Water and the Spirit: A United Methodist view on Baptism

 

[FireDragon76]

He said that while baptism was neither essential to nor sufficient for salvation, it was the “ordinary means” that God designated for applying the benefits of the work of Christ in human lives.

I am curious what this means. Especially not viewing baptism as sufficient for salvation. We Lutherans do seem to believe it is sufficient for salvation. During his darkest hours, Luther reminded himself that he was baptized. Even Evangelical Lutherans continue to have the same type of spirituality about baptism, expressed in many of our hymns.

What else besides baptism is sufficient for salvation?

 

[JCFantasy23]

I am curious what this means. Especially not viewing baptism as sufficient for salvation. We Lutherans do seem to believe it is sufficient for salvation. During his darkest hours, Luther reminded himself that he was baptized. Even Evangelical Lutherans continue to have the same type of spirituality about baptism, expressed in many of our hymns.

What else besides baptism is sufficient for salvation?

I'm assuming the quote came from the article I linked? I'm not the expert on Methodist theology on this (been a Methodist a few years but didn't draw into it because of their views on Baptism and study on that), but I would assume it's saying faith is also required and can stand as sufficient. Some are baptised but do not actually believe, and some can believe but not be yet baptised while they would still be considered saved.

 

[Open Heart]

I was raised Methodist but I was told baptism was basically a christening. It was never emphasized clearly. It seemed to be a naming ceremony or rite of passage.

I attended a Church of God (Anderson, Indiana) and Church of the Nazarene during the first half of my childhood, both of them Wesleyan churches. If I remember correctly, they believe that baptism BESTOWS GRACE. However, they also believe that baptism is symbolic in that it does not actually forgive sins or confer salvation like Catholics do.

 

[Christie insb]

I attended a Church of God (Anderson, Indiana) and Church of the Nazarene during the first half of my childhood, both of them Wesleyan churches. If I remember correctly, they believe that baptism BESTOWS GRACE. However, they also believe that baptism is symbolic in that it does not actually forgive sins or confer salvation like Catholics do.

 

[Christie insb]

Thanks for your answer. I guess I want to nitpick the space between bestowing grace and receiving salvation and forgiveness of sins. Really another question I didn't ask is whether they are Calvinists. I guess if they are not Calvinists, it would not be sufficient for salvation because we have to choose. So - - I would love to know more if anyone cares to give me an answer.

 

[JCFantasy23]

Thanks for your answer. I guess I want to nitpick the space between bestowing grace and receiving salvation and forgiveness of sins. Really another question I didn't ask is whether they are Calvinists. I guess if they are not Calvinists, it would not be sufficient for salvation because we have to choose. So - - I would love to know more if anyone cares to give me an answer.

They are not usually Calvinists.

You may also find the Methodist home forum useful:
Wesley's Parish - Methodist/ Nazarene