• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

were you givin the gift of tounges?

Discussion in 'Ecclesiology' started by IXOYE, Nov 7, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. RevKidd

    RevKidd Simple Mans Theologian

    +63
    Pentecostal
    Married
    US-Republican
    ::cough cough UPCI cough cough::

    I was raised in a denomination who taught this as well. :rolleyes: :(   Shame on them...

    Anyways...  I have been really disgusted at the "Charismatic Churches" out there that put such an enourmous spiritual emphasis on tongues, especially those of the Tele-evangelist types. :mad: :rolleyes:

    It seems that tongues has lost is spiritual holiness and that this gift is being prostituted among the spiritual as a sign of their validation. 

    Now, I may sound as someone who is against tongues, but I am not.  I belong to a Pentacostal Denomination, but I abhor those that put necessity of salvation or the fact that each believer should have this gift. 

     
     
  2. 4sightsounds

    4sightsounds Not playing games...

    82
    +0
    Christian
    If God is the one who issues spiritual gifts as he sees fit (Romans 12:6, 1st Cor. 12:8), how can we ask for the one(s) we desire? ...

    ...and so far as tongues being a prayer language.... could someone provide me with a scripture reference for that?

    This is my 1st post....happy to be here
     
  3. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

    +1,306
    United States
    Charismatic
    Single
    Welcome 4sightsounds,

    To answer your question:
    1 Cor 14:1 "Pursue love and strive for the spiritual gifts"

    Verse 2: For those who speak in a tongue do not speak to other people but to God;

    The whole chapter is good to read on the gifts.
     
  4. rapturefish

    rapturefish Kingdom Citizen, Spiritual Nomad

    614
    +45
    Australia
    Presbyterian
    Single
    Yeah 1 Cor.14 (Ch.12-14) is the main place to read up on the prayer language of tongues:

    v2 it's a language between you and God, no-one understands, it's a language of mystery.
    v4 tongues edify one's own spirit,
    v5 Paul wishes everyone of the Corinthians spoke in tongues (meaning not everyone did), prophecy is greater than tongues unless tongues are interpreted (because then it would be understood by everyone else)
    ...
    v13ff Paul encourages people to pray for interpretation (note: he is speaking in the context of a church setting in these chapters) so that people can benefit from the unknown tongue. Paul says he will pray in his spirit AND pray with his mind; same with singing (hence "singing in the Spirit") - that way, it not only edifies himself but others by the word that God is giving in the tongue. We learn here that this prayer language is from our spirits to God's Spirit, one that does not go through the mind like our learnt language.
    v18 Paul speak in tongues more than all of the church in Corinth. I don't know, but this seems to suggest that tongues although they have a private use the public use is something given to the assembly as the Spirit prompts a person to do so (when someone has a tongue to share to the church in public, it happens on the Spirit's prompting and this is not like the private language which we can trun on and off like singing).

    blessings,
     
  5. rapturefish

    rapturefish Kingdom Citizen, Spiritual Nomad

    614
    +45
    Australia
    Presbyterian
    Single
    As for spiritual gifts:

    Luke 11:5-13

    "...how much more will your father in Heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!'"

    So we can ask!
     
  6. 4sightsounds

    4sightsounds Not playing games...

    82
    +0
    Christian
    wow.....where do I start?

    Ok..... let's start from the beginning of 1st Cor. 14:1

    As mentioned by someone else earlier, this letter was written to the entire body of believers, not individuals. 14:1 basically states that your petition should be for a BODY that has all spiritual gifts, especially prophecy. For the purpose of the WHOLE body.

    14:2 Alright, may the Holy Spirit guide us in all truth.....why  would Paul SEEMINGLY advocate speaking in tongues to God directly after speaking about spiritual gifts for the body as a whole? Why does he speak of prophecy in the previous verse as being beneficial for the body moreso than the other gifts? Could it have something to do with the body being able to gain understanding of the message if spoken in a language they understand?....


    14:3 Bounces back to prophecy.......what's going on here? Could it be that Paul's trying to make a comparison of some sort? 

    14:4 another comparison....this time, he tells us about edifying one's self.... but didn't he say in chapter 12 that spiritual gifts are for the body?

    14:5 Now the goal is to edify the church again...could it be that edification of self was never meant to be?

    14:6-9 It's apparent that the purpose for Paul's addressing this issue was not to introduce a new prayer language, but to illustrate just how pointless it was for the Corinthians to engage in babbling (please do not be offended...it's obvious that no one understood ne another).

    14:10-11 barbarians.....interesting....

    14:12 edification of the church...a goal worth striving for...

    14:13 ^^^ hence. the importance of interpretation...

    14:14 IF I pray in tongues spirit prays/ mind unfruitful...but hold on....

    14:15-16 Carefully ask yourself, "who's the ungifted person Paul's referring to?"

    14:17 How foolish the Corinthians must've felt by this point...

    14:18-19 The contrast doesn't get any sharper than this....

    I'll stop here, but I encourage us to read the rest with understanding.

    Peace,
    B~
     
  7. rapturefish

    rapturefish Kingdom Citizen, Spiritual Nomad

    614
    +45
    Australia
    Presbyterian
    Single
    Hi 4sightsounds,

    I only disagree with the idea that private tongues was "not meant to be". Paul specifically addresses a misuse of the gift of spiritual language in 1 Corinthians because people who did not understand did not get edified, yes. But as he addresses this he also mentions here and there about the private use of tongues, and he doesn't forbid it. In 14:28 Paul says that if there is no-one to interpret then they speak to themselves and to God. In the context of this passage it means one can and should speak privately because while there is no interpretation it still edifies the believer because the tongue is between themselves and God (14:2) and in doing so quietly it does not disrupt the "decently and in order" principle Paul mentions.

    As Paul is addressing the public use of tongues the private element is only mentioned here and there. But enough is said to justify its validity.

    blessings,
     
  8. 4sightsounds

    4sightsounds Not playing games...

    82
    +0
    Christian
    "In 14:28 Paul says that if there is no-one to interpret then they speak to themselves and to God. In the context of this passage it means one can and should speak privately because while there is no interpretation it still edifies the believer because the tongue is between themselves and God (14:2) and in doing so quietly it does not disrupt the "decently and in order" principle Paul mentions.

    As Paul is addressing the public use of tongues the private element is only mentioned here and there. But enough is said to justify its validity."

    ....but what is the proper context? Remember. Chapters 12 through 14 address the same issue. He speaks of what the use is for ALL spiritual gifts (edification of the body).... yet, this one is somehow subject to a different rule?

    OK. Let's look at both verses closely.....

    14:2 is a comparison to 14:3. 14:4 shows 2 contrasts of which one is edifying to self, the other is edifying to the body. I assure you that this statement is not an affirmation from Paul that we are to edify ourselves. It just does not fit with the rest of the Corinthian passages dealing with the subject. In fact, if you can find a passage in the NT where we are instructed to edify ourselves and not each other, I will cheerfully accept the interpretation that Paul advocates it.

    14:28 does not advocate anything but order in the assembly...has nothing to do with a prayer language to God. Notice how thw rest of the passage speaks to the same issue: order among the assembly.

    14:37-38 Is a POWERFUL statement. Basically it says, "Those that are truly a prophet understand and will govern themselves accordingly. Those that don't are not recognized (their identity is not with us).

    Remember, this whole chapter is about "ORDER" 14:40...
     
  9. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

    +1,306
    United States
    Charismatic
    Single
    4sightsounds

    Sorry to be a bit "blonde" here but could you get to the bottom line of your point? :scratch:

    Are you saying that private tongues is bad?
     
  10. 4sightsounds

    4sightsounds Not playing games...

    82
    +0
    Christian
    no....

    I'm saying private tongues does not exist.
     
  11. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

    +1,306
    United States
    Charismatic
    Single
    OH . . .well . . .According to what I understand the Bible to teach, and since I speak in tongues, and interpret, and know churches full of people who practice it, plus there is history of hundreds of those who've gone before me who practiced it . . .I dissagree. 

    Maybe for YOU it does not exist, but for thousands of other Believers, it does.
     
  12. 4sightsounds

    4sightsounds Not playing games...

    82
    +0
    Christian
    No disrespect, Quaffer.... but did you look at my preceeding post regarding 1st Corinthians 14? Could you help me to better understand that passage? Otherwise, my opinion, your opinion, as well as the numbers of people you mentioned mean nothing.

    You see, experience does not validate scripture.....scripture validates experience.

    ...so if you can guide me through my error in understanding 1st Corinthians, it would sincerely be appreciated....
     
  13. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

    +1,306
    United States
    Charismatic
    Single
    As far as I'm concerned the scripture does validate my experience.  I copied from the NKJ version, Please show me the verse that says that tongues does not exist.

    1 Corinthians 14


    Prophecy and Tongues


    Principles Concerning Spiritual Gifts
    1 Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 3But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. 4He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for[1] he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.


    Tongues Must Be Interpreted
    6 But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you unless I speak to you either by revelation, by knowledge, by prophesying, or by teaching? 7Even things without life, whether flute or harp, when they make a sound, unless they make a distinction in the sounds, how will it be known what is piped or played? 8For if the trumpet makes an uncertain sound, who will prepare for battle? 9So likewise you, unless you utter by the tongue words easy to understand, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air. 10There are, it may be, so many kinds of languages in the world, and none of them is without significance. 11Therefore, if I do not know the meaning of the language, I shall be a foreigner to him who speaks, and he who speaks will be a foreigner to me. 12Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church that you seek to excel.
    13Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 14For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding. 16Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say "Amen" at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say? 17For you indeed give thanks well, but the other is not edified.
    18 I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all; 19yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.


    Tongues a Sign to Unbelievers
    20 Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature.
    21In the law it is written:


    "With men of other tongues and other lips
    I will speak to this people;
    And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me,"[2]


    says the Lord.
    22 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe. 23Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an uninformed person comes in, he is convinced by all, he is convicted by all. 25And thus[3] the secrets of his heart are revealed; and so, falling down on his face, he will worship God and report that God is truly among you.


    Order in Church Meetings
    26 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. 28But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God. 29Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. 30But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. 31For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. 32And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.
    34Let your[4] women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. 35And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.
    36Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached? 37If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. 38But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant. [5]
    39Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues. 40Let all things be done decently and in order.
     
  14. 1-peter5-9

    1-peter5-9 New Member

    47
    +0
    I'd like to start by saying that some people believe the Holy Spirit is the gift of tongues. This is not true. Luke 11:9-13 says that God will give the gift of His Spirit to whoever asks for Him to do so.

    It also says in Mark 16:17-18 that these signs will follow those who believe: In the name of Jesus they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; and they will lay hands on the sick and they will recover.

    These things are not requirements of God.  Not everyone who enters into heaven is going to have cast a demon out of someone, or have survived drinking deadly poison, or any one thing necessarily. But we have power by faith to do these things that Jesus said we would.

    On the Day of Pentecost, they were found speaking the praises of God in languages they did not know - to people who DID know those languages (Acts 2:1-11). This was for a sign to unbelievers that God was at work in these men and women who were speaking to them and that they should maybe pay attention to what they had to say.

    But Paul says that we can speak with the "tongues of men and angels" in 1 Corinthians 13:1.  There are therefore two different types of tongues - what occured on the Day of Pentacost, where the saints spoke the works of God to men of other languages in their own language - & also, praying to the Father in a language that other men do not understand (1 Corinthians 14:2).  This is for your own spiritual edification and for thanking God in a way that belongs only to you and the Father, speaking mysteries in the Spirit of your love for Him. 

    Not all believers will be given the gift of tongues, as each believer is given different gifts so that as a whole body, we can help each other (1 Corinthians 12:7-11).

    Don't worry if you haven't been given the gift to speak in tongues. It does not mean that God has not given you His Spirit, because FAITH is a manifestation of the Spirit and proof that He lives with you. Paul encourages us to seek spiritual gifts, but more important is obedience to the Word and walking in love. Love is the greatest gift and love for Jesus and other people is what makes you righteous. Not whether or not you have been given any certain gift of the Spirit.
     
  15. DeputyDan

    DeputyDan Member

    452
    +1
    No, I was not...........
     
  16. 9-iron

    9-iron Football Fan

    +145
    Non-Denom
    Single
    A few people had been praying for me for several months and then one evening I was all alone talking to God and I just started. Pretty simple, no magic lights or sounds or angelic visions and the such, just let the words come off my tongue.........:D

    I feel you have to give in to the Lordship of Christ first, then the Holy Spirit is free to move upon us. In other words I had to realize it was not "me living for Him", but "Him living through me". ( Gal. 2:20).
     
  17. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

    +21
    Non-Denom
    If I go into my closet and pray or speak in tongues, it becomes private tongues becos I'm not doing it in public. *LOL

    ok silly joke but I cldnt resist.
     
  18. Exodus

    Exodus New Member

    61
    +0
    If you haven't been able to speak tounges, try:
    1-faith first
    2-then others praying for you.

    It happened to me a few times although I didn't know what the tounge meant, I am not gifted for interpretation or haven't prayed for that gift. I am not even sure these things are gifts, they may just happen to anyone through prayer and faith. I am not sure.

    But in my case, when my friends prayer for me to speak in tounges the first time, they were sure it would happen if I had enought faith. That means it is not something like a gift. It's faith. But it didn't happen because I wasn't a series Christian then.

    Then 2 years later when I was a strong believer, they all prayer for me and I spoke in tounges, but had no idea what the message of the words were.
     
  19. Exodus

    Exodus New Member

    61
    +0
    You can suddently speak in tounges also when you are in prayer, that happens to me sometimes, while praying by myself or with other people. So you can speak in tounges when in prayer by faith, or you are praying in faith and others pray for you for a gift of tounges. That's how I understand it from my experience.
     
  20. sfg

    sfg New Member

    26
    +0
    I am new here, but I sure like what I see. It will take a awhile to get used to this interface but I think I can have a lot of fun here.

    Finally some sprirt filled people. I was on another forum, wow what a drag....I thought I was in the middle ages or something.

    Tongues for me is used to build me up. I used it as to calm myself, for warfare and for alot of other stuff. Tongues is an insult to a christian who has not yet died to his head...

    Nothing worse than head driven minisrty.......it is a total drag :-(

    sfg
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...