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Featured Were the things bloody Mary did barbaric?

Discussion in 'Christian History' started by Neostarwcc, Sep 8, 2019.

  1. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc Eternal life is a free gift. Amen. Supporter

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    For those of you that don't know, the English Queen later dubbed "bloody Mary" by the Protestants was Queen Mary I who lived in the 1500's and reigned from 1553-1558 so she only reigned for about 5 years. During her five year reign though she did many barbaric things like burning over 300 Protestants at the stake just for the sole reason of wanting to restore Catholicism to England. While many Christians will agree today that what she did was barbaric it wasn't quite that way in England at the time. The punishment for religious heresy back then was death and many of the religious English people were Catholics loyal to the pope at the time. So they viewed her as a "right" and "just" Queen.

    However, was that really the case? Was it really right of bloody Mary to burn tons of Protestants at the stake just for the sole purpose of restoring Catholicism to England? Which, completely failed after her death in 1558. So those Protestants basically died for nothing. Because Protestantism has been the main religion of England ever since her Father King Henry VIII and Brother King Edward VI instituted it.

    You can find a wikipedia article on the whole story here:

    Mary I of England - Wikipedia
     
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  2. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Noteworthy for it's barbarism is what she did to Margaret Clitherow. Look that one up.
     
  3. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc Eternal life is a free gift. Amen. Supporter

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    Yes, I heard about that one too. And Margaret wasn't even a Protestant and technically against her idea of what the "Christian church" was. So she was put to death for literally no reason at all. But also, what I honestly don't understand is that if she wanted to return Catholicism to England so badly, why didn't she just do it? The people would have obeyed her without question because she was the reigning monarch and she definitely had the ability and power to do so. Why'd she have to try to eliminate all of the Protestants living in England first and THEN give the order to return the "True church" to England? The Protestants probably would have converted to Catholicism. That or left England to practice their religion somewhere else. But I get it, the punishment for heresy in those days was death and she was just merely going with her religious beliefs but, come on!

    Maybe England would still be Catholic today if she did that. That or maybe Elizabeth I would have returned Protestantism to England anyway so maybe she thought that if she didn't eliminate the "problem" that the next reigning monarch would just undo what she did. Who knows.
     
  4. Christ is Lord

    Christ is Lord Active Member

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    Look up 'sacrarium' you'll see why Mary more than likely would have thought she was doing the right thing. And no, today we would say her actions were wrong.
     
  5. JackRT

    JackRT Flat earther waking up ... Supporter

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    The Anglican Church is arguably not "Protestant" but rather a Catholic Church without a Pope.
     
  6. Christ is Lord

    Christ is Lord Active Member

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    Based on that logic I guess the Lutheran church isn’t Protestant either
     
  7. JackRT

    JackRT Flat earther waking up ... Supporter

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    I have heard that argued as well.
     
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  8. Christ is Lord

    Christ is Lord Active Member

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    Then that would mean we need to stop considering Martin Luther to be a “reformer” or “Protestant”.
     
  9. James Murphy

    James Murphy LCMS Lutheran

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    Margaret Clitherow was killed under Elizabeth I, NOT Mary.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
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  10. tz620q

    tz620q Regular Member Supporter

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    I hadn't thought about this before; but who is the head of the Anglican Church in Canada?
     
  11. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    Most indications are Luther thought of himself as the former (reformer), but not the latter (protestant). Being a reformer doesn't mean leaving the church (the RCC in this case). There were several reformers - some from Luther's era - who did not leave.
     
  12. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    There was plenty of blood to go around during the wars of religion. The winners were called heroes, the losers were called tyrants.

    Was it right for the Israelites to slaughter the Amalekites, etc.?
     
  13. Christ is Lord

    Christ is Lord Active Member

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    That is very true. Initially Luther wasn't seeking to leave the RCC a lot of modern Protestants tend to forget that.
     
  14. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    The Primate of the Anglican Church of Canada is the Most Reverend Linda Carol Nicholls.
     
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  15. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    The word Protestant, referring originally to Lutherans only, was in use for many years prior to Luther's death, and he pastored parishes/congregations that were independent of the RCC for even more years. Therefore, it is unlikely that he thought of himself as a 'Catholic' in any sense other than that which is referred to in the Nicene Creed.
     
  16. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    By the end Luther may have realized reconciliation was impossible. That I don't know.

    But, as I understand it, the term "Protestant" was first used at the Diet of Speyer by opponents of the Reformation. That's not uncommon, for people to take what was intended as an insult and wear it as a badge of honor. The term "Roman Catholic" was likewise first used as an insult by Protestants.

    As best I know, Luther very much desired reconciliation, even if he knew it wouldn't happen. It was others among the early protesters who were anxious for actual separation.

    When I went through confirmation classes as a youth at a Lutheran church, my pastor very much emphasized that we are not Protestants. I'm not as adamant about maintaining the distinction. I've gotten used to non-Lutherans calling Lutherans Protestants.
     
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  17. Christ is Lord

    Christ is Lord Active Member

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    That’s very interesting. I guess I learnt something new today, will explore this further
     
  18. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

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    To be accurate HenryVIII lived and died a Catholic, he did two things, separated the Church in England from the authority of the pope, but didn't change any teachings and authotised the use of the bible in english.

    It was the reformers working with the boy king Edward who brought in changes to litergy and theology which was confirmed by Elizabeth.
     
  19. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    Yes, the best indications are Henry VIII died considering himself Catholic. But he did sow the seeds that allowed Reformed theology to enter the Anglican Church, even if it didn't bloom until Edward was on the throne.
     
  20. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    That's probably the best way to describe the matter, yes.

    I too have met Lutheran pastors who do this, but I don't know why they would feel that strongly about making the point. It was the Lutherans who made famous all the key issues in the Protestant Reformation, after all, such as the "Solas."

    But I will guess that they feel a need to put some distance between themselves and the majority of Protestants who reject the Real Presence, liturgical worship, the church calendar, and so on.
     
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