Were the angels lying?

nolidad

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Dear Nolidad: What part of ta panta are you unable to grasp? All that began in Alpha ends in Omega, the Beginning and Ending of the all.

"The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross."The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross."

I am asking YOU a simple question that requires a simple yes or no answer! With all the verbage you have written- does that mean YOU believe that everyone will be saved ? Yes or NO!!!
 
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FineLinen

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I am asking YOU a simple question that requires a simple yes or no answer! With all the verbage you have written- does that mean YOU believe that everyone will be saved ? Yes or NO!!!

Nolidad: To begin there is no such thing as "simple". On the bottom of each post I make is the not so simple answer to your yes or no. I not only believe the entire mass of broken loss sinners, ALL, will be saved by the love and grace of God, the same ALL will be "made righteous".

Your question=

Will the "many made sinners" in Adam1 be the "many made righteous" in the Last Adam?
 
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FineLinen

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Nolidad: To begin there is no such thing as "simple". On the bottom of each post I make is the not so simple answer to your yes or no. I not only believe the entire mass of broken loss sinners ALL will be saved by the love and grace of God, the same ALL will be "made righteous".

Your question=

Will the "many made sinners" in Adam1 be the "many made righteous" in the Last Adam?


Simple=

Definition of SIMPLE

koine: "simple"=

Please see guileless or harmless.
 
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FineLinen

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"The angel said to them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to ALL people."

Fear not= phobeō mē

Glad tidings = euaggelizō

Great = megas

Joy = chara

Shall be = esomai

To all people = pas laos

All=pas=the radical all.

The angel said, “Don’t be afraid. I’m here to announce a great and joyful event that is meant for everybody, worldwide: A Savior has just been born in David’s town, a Savior who is Messiah and Master.

 
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nolidad

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Simple=

Definition of SIMPLE

koine: "simple"=

Please see guileless or harmless.

Well you are another person to ignore. You know what is being asked. Instead of acting with integrity, you wish to play your little word games and be very very evasive and nit pick every word one writes.

It is sad you simply cannot defend your position amongst brethren when asked and you resort to hiding behind faux intellectual games.
 
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FineLinen

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Well you are another person to ignore. You know what is being asked. Instead of acting with integrity, you wish to play your little word games and be very very evasive and nit pick every word one writes.

It is sad you simply cannot defend your position amongst brethren when asked and you resort to hiding behind faux intellectual games.

Dear Nolidad: I know precisely what you have asked! Again, take 2>>>

To begin there is no such thing as "simple". On the bottom of each post I make is the not so simple answer to your yes or no. I not only believe the entire mass of broken loss sinners, ALL, will be saved by the love and grace of God, the same ALL will be "made righteous".

Your question=

Will the "many made sinners" in Adam1 be the "many made righteous" in the Last Adam?
 
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nolidad

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Dear Nolidad: I know precisely what you have asked! Again, take 2>>>

To begin there is no such thing as "simple". On the bottom of each post I make is the not so simple answer to your yes or no. I not only believe the entire mass of broken loss sinners, ALL, will be saved by the love and grace of God, the same ALL will be "made righteous".

Your question=

Will the "many made sinners" in Adam1 be the "many made righteous" in the Last Adam?

Lying to me about the words I wrote is a serious issue! I did not ask that!

I asked you if you believe every human will be saved or not?

First you resort to obfuscation and evasion and now in intentionally rewording my question!

Answer my question.

If you do not know how to answer a simple yes or no question- I advise you to spend more time with real people!

Yes or no- will every human being be saved according to what you have written in your unnecessary verbage

So do you believe that every human being since Adam till the last born person will be saved? Last chance to answer yes or no! You know what is being asked and you can answer with a yes or no! Now do so- or continue to be the faux intellectual you seem to strive to be!
 
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FineLinen

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Lying to me about the words I wrote is a serious issue! I did not ask that!

I asked you if you believe every human will be saved or not?
Dear Noli: Your original post=

"Are you saying that the lost will be saved and angels restored? "

Take 3: my response=

Nolidad: To begin there is no such thing as "simple". On the bottom of each post I make is the not so simple answer to your yes or no. I not only believe the entire mass of broken loss sinners, ALL, will be saved by the love and grace of God, the same ALL will be "made righteous".

Your question=

Will the "many made sinners" in Adam1 be the "many made righteous" in the Last Adam?
 
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FineLinen

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No.
See how simple it is to actually answer a question?

Dear Ren: Evidently your simple answer places you in stark rebellion to the text!

"For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous."
 
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renniks

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"For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous."

Your conclusion, however, is contrary to the context here and in Romans as a whole as well as to the rest of Scripture.

Even in this context Paul speaks of being “justified by faith” (Rom 5:1), not automatically by what Christ did for us. He also refers to salvation as a “gift” (Rom 5:16) that has to be received; in Rom 5:17 he declares that salvation comes only to those who receive the gift of righteousness.

The rest of the Book of Romans makes it unmistakably clear that not everyone will be saved. Romans 1-2 speaks of the heathen who are “without excuse” (Rom. 1:20) and upon whom the wrath of God falls (1:18). It declares that “as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law” (Rom. 2:12 NKJV).
Paul recognized that, despite his prayers, not all of his kinsmen would be saved (Rom. 11:1-10)
The whole point of Romans is to show that only those who believe will be justified (Rom. 1:17; cf. 3:21-26).
You are a fine Cherry picker, but not so fine at accepting the Word as a whole.
 
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FineLinen

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If one man’s sin put crowds of people at the dead-end abyss of separation from God, just think what God’s gift poured through one man, Jesus Christ, will do!

There’s no comparison between that death-dealing sin and this generous, life-giving gift. The verdict on that one sin was the death sentence; the verdict on the many sins that followed was this wonderful life sentence.

If death got the upper hand through one man’s wrongdoing, can you imagine the breathtaking recovery life makes, sovereign life, in those who grasp with both hands this wildly extravagant life-gift, this grand setting-everything-right, that the one man Jesus Christ provides?

Here it is in a nutshell: Just as one person did it wrong and got us in all this trouble with sin and death, another person did it right and got us out of it.

But more than just getting us out of trouble, he got us into life! One man said no to God and put many people in the wrong; one man said yes to God and put many in the right.

All that passing laws against sin did was produce more lawbreakers. But sin didn’t, and doesn’t, have a chance in competition with the aggressive forgiveness we call grace. When it’s sin versus grace, grace wins hands down. All sin can do is threaten us with death, and that’s the end of it. Grace, because God is putting everything together again through the Messiah, invites us into life—a life that goes on and on and on, world without end. -The Message-
 
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nolidad

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Dear Noli: Your original post=

"Are you saying that the lost will be saved and angels restored? "

Take 3: my response=

Nolidad: To begin there is no such thing as "simple". On the bottom of each post I make is the not so simple answer to your yes or no. I not only believe the entire mass of broken loss sinners, ALL, will be saved by the love and grace of God, the same ALL will be "made righteous".

Your question=

Will the "many made sinners" in Adam1 be the "many made righteous" in the Last Adam?

Will all humans be saved? YES or NO! no other words!

Will the fallen angels be saved? Yes or NO! No other words!
 
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FineLinen

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Will all humans be saved? YES or NO! no other words!

Will the fallen angels be saved? Yes or NO! No other words!

iu
 
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nolidad

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It is sad you cannot answer with a yes or no! It speaks loads of yoru character.

Me: Will all humans eventuially be saved? NONONONONONONO!~
Me: Will teh demons eventually get saved? NO NO NO NO NO NO NO~!

That is how simple it is. It is sad that you cannot defend your position but instead hide behind obfuscation and vagueries. Are you uncomfortable with your belief that you say every human will be saved? Ad I think based on your "radical" all demons will make it as well?
 
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FineLinen

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It is sad you cannot answer with a yes or no! It speaks loads of yoru character.

Me: Will all humans eventuially be saved? NONONONONONONO!~
Me: Will teh demons eventually get saved? NO NO NO NO NO NO NO~!

That is how simple it is. It is sad that you cannot defend your position but instead hide behind obfuscation and vagueries. Are you uncomfortable with your belief that you say every human will be saved? Ad I think based on your "radical" all demons will make it as well?

Dear Noli: I regret I have not been able to meet your simple expectations. Your present experience is before us and duly noted.

The Lord of ephphatha still walks among us. There is a new Day breaking when you and all of us will know it!

The Lord Lesous is the Lord of ephphatha.
 
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nolidad

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Dear Noli: I regret I have not been able to meet your simple expectations. Your present experience is before us and duly noted.

The Lord of ephphatha still walks among us. There is a new Day breaking when you and all of us will know it!

The Lord Lesous is the Lord of ephphatha.

Maybe one day you will learn that people are not impressed by your theological verbage- but how you present yourself! Jesus spoke to the masses in their way. I went to Bible College and taught in bible College, I can vomit out all the fancy sounding theoligcal terms and hurl greek out as good as most! But when an easy question is asked that can be answered by a simple yes or no and one refuses to do so, that is a very troubling thing for the one who refuses to make the simple answer of their beliefs.
 
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Will all humans be saved? YES or NO! no other words!

Will the fallen angels be saved? Yes or NO! No other words!

As many as are damned in your theology are saved in ours. Because (a) God is omnipotent (b) Jesus came to save the world (c) the lake of fire serves this purpose and (d) who can stand against His will and plan to be all in all?

God is light, there is no darkness in Him.

So affirm with us a theology of life and the consummation of all the great promises and prophecies of scripture regarding salvation of all.
 
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nolidad

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As many as are damned in your theology are saved in ours. Because (a) God is omnipotent (b) Jesus came to save the world (c) the lake of fire serves this purpose and (d) who can stand against His will and plan to be all in all?

God is light, there is no darkness in Him.

So affirm with us a theology of life and the consummation of all the great promises and prophecies of scripture regarding salvation of all.

I can never affirm universalism for it is not Scripture but anti-Scripture!

One verse alone destroys that false premise of yours and fine linen!

Revelation 14:9-11 King James Version (KJV)
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

YOu need to toss out that fal;se theology and accept the Word of God as written and not allegorized!

Show one verse that shows there is an escape from teh lake of fire and you win! Not some twister game but a scripture that says.

Matthew 7:13
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Maybe you should do a word study for destruction and see how the greek word is used- it should change your mind!
 
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FineLinen

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Olethron aionion in 2Thess. 1:9

‘Aion, transliterated aeon, is a period of longer or shorter duration, having a beginning and an end, and complete in itself. Aristotle (peri ouravou, i. 9,15) says: “The period which includes the whole time of one’s life is called the aeon of each one.” Hence it often means the life of a man, as in Homer, where one’s life (aion) is said to leave him or to consume away (Iliad v. 685; Odyssey v. 160). It is not, however, limited to human life; it signifies any period in the course of events, as the period or age before Christ; the period of the millenium; the mythological period before the beginnings of history. The word has not “a stationary and mechanical value” (De Quincey). It does not mean a period of a fixed length for all cases. There are as many aeons as entities, the respective durations of which are fixed by the normal conditions of the several entities.

There is one aeon of a human life, another of the life of a nation, another of a crow’s life, another of an oak’s life. The length of the aeon depends on the subject to which it is attached.

It is sometimes translated world; world represents a period or a series of periods of time. See Matt 12:32; 13:40,49; Luke 1:70; 1 Cor 1:20; 2:6; Eph 1:21. Similarly oi aiones, the worlds, the universe, the aggregate of the ages or periods, and their contents which are included in the duration of the world. 1 Cor 2:7; 10:11; Heb 1:2; 9:26; 11:3. The word always carries the notion of time, and not of eternity.

It always means a period of time. Otherwise it would be impossible to account for the plural, or for such qualifying expressions as this age, or the age to come.

It does not mean something endless or everlasting. To deduce that meaning from its relation to aei is absurd; for, apart from the fact that the meaning of a word is not definitely fixed by its derivation, aei does not signify endless duration. When the writer of the Pastoral Epistles quotes the saying that the Cretans are always (aei) liars (Tit. 1:12), he surely does not mean that the Cretans will go on lying to all eternity. See also Acts 7:51; 2 Cor. 4:11; 6:10; Heb 3:10; 1 Pet. 3:15. Aei means habitually or continually within the limit of the subject’s life. In our colloquial dialect everlastingly is used in the same way. “The boy is everlastingly tormenting me to buy him a drum.”

In the New Testament the history of the world is conceived as developed through a succession of aeons. A series of such aeons precedes the introduction of a new series inaugurated by the Christian dispensation, and the end of the world and the second coming of Christ are to mark the beginning of another series. Eph. 1:21; 2:7; 3:9,21; 1 Cor 10:11; compare Heb. 9:26. He includes the series of aeons in one great aeon, ‘o aion ton aionon, the aeon of the aeons (Eph. 3:21); and the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews describe the throne of God as enduring unto the aeon of the aeons (Heb 1:8). The plural is also used, aeons of the aeons, signifying all the successive periods which make up the sum total of the ages collectively. Rom. 16:27; Gal. 1:5; Philip. 4:20, etc. This plural phrase is applied by Paul to God only.

The adjective aionios in like manner carries the idea of time. Neither the noun nor the adjective, in themselves, carry the sense of endless or everlasting.

They may acquire that sense by their connotation, as, on the other hand, aidios, which means everlasting, has its meaning limited to a given point of time in Jude 6. Aionios means enduring through or pertaining to a period of time. Both the noun and the adjective are applied to limited periods. Thus the phrase eis ton aiona, habitually rendered forever, is often used of duration which is limited in the very nature of the case. See, for a few out of many instances, LXX, Exod 21:6; 29:9; 32:13; Josh. 14:9 1 Sam 8:13; Lev. 25:46; Deut. 15:17; 1 Chron. 28:4;. See also Matt. 21:19; John 13:8 1 Cor. 8:13. The same is true of aionios. Out of 150 instances in LXX, four-fifths imply limited duration. For a few instances see Gen. 48:4; Num. 10:8; 15:15; Prov. 22:28; Jonah 2:6; Hab. 3:6; Isa. 61:17.

Words which are habitually applied to things temporal or material cannot carry in themselves the sense of endlessness. Even when applied to God, we are not forced to render aionios everlasting.

Of course the life of God is endless; but the question is whether, in describing God as aionios, it was intended to describe the duration of his being, or whether some different and larger idea was not contemplated. That God lives longer then men, and lives on everlastingly, and has lived everlastingly, are, no doubt, great and significant facts; yet they are not the dominant or the most impressive facts in God’s relations to time.

God’s eternity does not stand merely or chiefly for a scale of length. It is not primarily a mathematical but a moral fact. The relations of God to time include and imply far more than the bare fact of endless continuance. They carry with them the fact that God transcends time; works on different principles and on a vaster scale than the wisdom of time provides; oversteps the conditions and the motives of time; marshals the successive aeons from a point outside of time, on lines which run out into his own measureless cycles, and for sublime moral ends which the creature of threescore and ten years cannot grasp and does not even suspect.

There is a word for everlasting if that idea is demanded.

That aiodios occurs rarely in the New Testament and in LXX does not prove that its place was taken by aionios. It rather goes to show that less importance was attached to the bare idea of everlastingness than later theological thought has given it. Paul uses the word once, in Rom. 1:20, where he speaks of “the everlasting power and divinity of God.” In Rom. 16:26 he speaks of the eternal God (tou aioniou theou); but that he does not mean the everlasting God is perfectly clear from the context. He has said that “the mystery” has been kept in silence in times eternal (chronois aioniois), by which he does not mean everlasting times, but the successive aeons which elapsed before Christ was proclaimed. God therefore is described as the God of the aeons, the God who pervaded and controlled those periods before the incarnation. To the same effect is the title ‘o basileus ton aionon, the King of the aeons, applied to God in 1 Tim. 1:17; Rev. 15:3; compare Tob. 13:6, 10.

The phrase pro chronon aionion, before eternal times (2 Tim. 1:9; Tit. 1:2), cannot mean before everlasting times. To say that God bestowed grace on men, or promised them eternal life before endless times, would be absurd. The meaning is of old, as Luke 1:70. The grace and the promise were given in time, but far back in the ages, before the times of reckoning the aeons.

Zoe aionios eternal life, which occurs 42 times in N. T., but not in LXX, is not endless life, but life pertaining to a certain age or aeon, or continuing during that aeon. I repeat, life may be endless. The life in union with Christ is endless, but the fact is not expressed by aionios. Kolasis aionios, rendered everlasting punishment (Matt. 25:46), is the punishment peculiar to an aeon other then that in which Christ is speaking. In some cases zoe aionios does not refer specifically to the life beyond time, but rather to the aeon or dispensation of Messiah which succeeds the legal dispensation. See Matt. 19:16; John 5:39. John says that zoe aionios is the present possession of those who believe on the Son of God, John 3:36; 5:24; 6:47,54. The Father’s commandment is zoe aionios, John 1250; to know the only true God and Jesus Christ is zoe aionios. John 17:3.

Bishop Westcott very justly says, commenting upon the terms used by John to describe life under different aspects: “In considering these phrases it is necessary to premise that in spiritual things we must guard against all conclusions which rest upon the notions of succession and duration. ‘Eternal life’ is that which St. Paul speaks of as ‘e outos Zoe the life which is life indeed, and ‘e zoe tou theou, the life of God. It is not an endless duration of being in time, but being of which time is not a measure. We have indeed no powers to grasp the idea except through forms and images of sense. These must be used, but we must not transfer them as realities to another order.”

Thus, while aionios carries the idea of time, though not of endlessness, there belongs to it also, more or less, a sense of quality. Its character is ethical rather than mathematical.

The deepest significance of the life beyond time lies, not in endlessness, but in the moral quality of the aeon into which the life passes. It is comparatively unimportant whether or not the rich fool, when his soul was required of him (Luke 12:20), entered upon a state that was endless. The principal, the tremendous fact, as Christ unmistakably puts it, was that, in the new aeon, the motives, the aims, the conditions, the successes and awards of time counted for nothing. In time, his barns and their contents were everything; the soul was nothing. In the new life the soul was first and everything, and the barns and storehouses nothing. The bliss of the sanctified does not consist primarily in its endlessness, but in the nobler moral conditions of the new aeon, the years of the holy and eternal God. Duration is a secondary idea. When it enters it enters as an accompaniment and outgrowth of moral conditions.

In the present passage it is urged that olethron destruction points to an unchangeable, irremediable, and endless condition.

If this be true, if olethros is extinction, then the passage teaches the annihilation of the wicked, in which case the adjective aionios is superfluous, since extinction is final, and excludes the idea of duration. But olethros does not always mean destruction or extinction. Take the kindred verb apollumi to destroy, put an end to, or in the middle voice, to be lost, to perish. Peter says “the world being deluged with water, perished (apoleto, 2 Pet. 3:6); but the world did not become extinct, it was renewed. In Heb. 1:11,12, quoted from Ps. 102, we read concerning the heavens and the earth as compared with the eternity of God, “they shall perish” (apolountai). But the perishing is only preparatory to change and renewal. “They shall be changed” (allagesontai). Compare Isa. 51:6,16; 65:22; 2 Pet. 3:13; Rev. 21:1. Similarly, “the Son of man came to save that which was lost” (apololos), Luke 19:10. Jesus charged his apostles to go to the lost (apololota) sheep of the house of Israel, Matt. 10:6, compare 15:24, “He that shall lose (apolese) his life for my sake shall find it,” Matt. 16:25. Compare Luke 15:6,9,32.

In this passage, the word destruction is qualified.

It is “destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his power,” at his second coming, in the new aeon. In other words, it is the severance, at a given point of time, of those who obey not the gospel from the presence and the glory of Christ. Aionios may therefore describe this severance as continuing during the millenial aeon between Christ’s coming and the final judgment; as being for the wicked prolonged throughout that aeon and characteristic of it, or it may describe the severance as characterising or enduring through a period or aeon succeeding the final judgment, the extent of which period is not defined. In neither case is aionios, to be interpreted as everlasting or endless.

If we cross-reference olethros with 1Co. 5:5, with its derivative olothrūo in He. 11:28, we will see that utter annihilation does not fit. For example, take the extermination of the “first-born” of Egypt (He. 11:28): Were all these innocent babies utterly annihilated before God? Also, though Satan destroys the flesh of the saved, we know God restores it in the resurrection (1Co. 5:5). Even were God to utterly annihilate someone, has He not the power to restore (De. 32:39; 1Sa. 2:6; Mt. 3:9)?

Also, if we cross-reference olethros with 1Co. 5:5, with its derivative olothrūo in He. 11:28, we will see that utter annihilation does not fit. For example, take the extermination of the “first-born” of Egypt (He. 11:28): Were all these innocent babies utterly annihilated before God? Also, though Satan destroys the flesh of the saved, we know God restores it in the resurrection (1Co. 5:5). Even were God to utterly annihilate someone, has He not the power to restore (De. 32:39; 1Sa. 2:6; Mt. 3:9)? -Dr. Marvin Vincent-

https://www.hopefaithprayer.com/books/Word-Studies-in-the-New-Testament-Vol-1&2-Marvin-R-Vincent.pdf
 
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