Were Serpents in Creation story flying dragons who could also talk and walk, or in fact Satan?

[eleos1954]

Jesus wrote with His finger in the sand.

That is the only instance of Jesus writing anything.
We believe the sand has shifted since then.

Then for years, people wrote about God as they saw fit.

Jesus IS God

Exodus 31:18

When He had finished speaking with him upon Mount Sinai, He gave Moses the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written by the finger of God.

Exodus 24:12

Now the Lord said to Moses, “Come up to Me on the mountain and remain there, and I will give you the stone tablets with the law and the commandment which I have written for their instruction.”

 

[SkyWriting]

Jesus IS God

Exodus 31:18

When He had finished speaking with him upon Mount Sinai, He gave Moses the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written by the finger of God.

Exodus 24:12

Now the Lord said to Moses, “Come up to Me on the mountain and remain there, and I will give you the stone tablets with the law and the commandment which I have written for their instruction.”

Jesus is a separate person from the Father.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Hebrews 9:15
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

Hebrews 7:25
Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.

Philippians 2:6-8
who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

John 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Hebrews 12:24
and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

Romans 3:29-30
Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.

John 17:3
And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

Luke 2:10-11
And the angel said to them, “Fear not, for behold, I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

Matthew 1:23
“Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us).

Revelation 1:13
and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden sash around his chest.

Hebrews 8:6
But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

Jesus is a separate person from the Father.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Hebrews 9:15
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

Hebrews 7:25
Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.

Philippians 2:6-8
who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

John 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Hebrews 12:24
and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

Romans 3:29-30
Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.

John 17:3
And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

Luke 2:10-11
And the angel said to them, “Fear not, for behold, I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

Matthew 1:23
“Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us).

Revelation 1:13
and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden sash around his chest.

Hebrews 8:6
But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises.

I agree wholeheartedly with all of these texts. Also add in Isaiah 9:6

6For unto us a child is born,
unto us a son is given,
and the government will be upon His shoulders.
And He will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
​

Let's not forget though, there is no difference between the content of the Old and the New covenants. They are exactly the same.

The Old Covenant was written on tablets of stone, the New Covenant is written in our minds and on our hearts.

Other than the above, the new covenant itself is identical. It is still given to Israel and Judah btw!

Contrary to popular but unfounded belief, it does not do away with the keeping of the 10 commandments (including the 4th!)

Hebrews 8:10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people
​

God's laws are the 10 commandments...always have been and always will be. Even a google search result agrees with that.

finally, remember the patience of the saints in Revelation 14:12

"Here is a call for the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus."​

 

[eleos1954]

Jesus is a separate person from the Father.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Hebrews 9:15
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

Hebrews 7:25
Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.

Philippians 2:6-8
who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

John 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Hebrews 12:24
and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

Romans 3:29-30
Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.

John 17:3
And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

Luke 2:10-11
And the angel said to them, “Fear not, for behold, I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

Matthew 1:23
“Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us).

Revelation 1:13
and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden sash around his chest.

Hebrews 8:6
But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises.

Jesus is a separate person from the Father.

True .... however everything has and is done through Jesus ...... EVERYTHING.

God is a plurality of 3, yet one.

Jesus is God. John wrote about Him: In the beginning was the Word [poetic description of Jesus], and the Word was with God and the Word was God (John 1:1 ESV). He created the world and all that is in it (John 1:3). The religious leaders of his time understood that Jesus claimed to be God (John 5:17-18). Paul wrote that when Jesus died, the Father revealed to the entire world that He was God (Philippians 2:5-11).

Jesus is the Son of God. According to the Bible, “Son of God” means: (1) He is fully God. (2) He is one of three persons who together make up the One God. Often referred to as the “Trinity.”

God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit work together. While each person of the Godhead has a distinct role in the plan of salvation, they unite in their mission.

John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is Himself God and is at the Father's side, has made Him known.

Colossians 1:15-17
He (Jesus) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

 

[Tom 1]

I have tended to take the view that serpents in creation were able to fly and that after the deception of Adam and Eve, they lost the ability to fly.

I had I guess supposed that the reason the serpent could speak was because the devil had entered the snake...ie possessed the snake. However, I now wonder...

In the Genesis narrative, it's difficult to separate the envy and hatred of Satan from the snake in the garden...is the creation story really talking about the literal snake as we know them today at all or, is this simply a reference to Satan?

Genesis 3:1Now the serpenta was more crafty than any beast of the field that the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden?’ ”​

On the one hand we can read the Genesis account as illustrating that the devil simply possessed the snake in light of the way in which Genesis 3:1 reads

On the other hand, we can read the account as illustrating the Snake was actually the Devil himself and that he was envious of Adam and Eve.

Then we get thrown another curve ball in that Josephus states in his writings "Antiquities of the Jews" (book 1)

He also deprived the Serpent of speech, out of indignation at his malicious disposition towards Adam. And when he had deprived him of the use of his feet, he made him to go rolling all along, and dragging himself upon the ground
​

Add Isaiah 14:29 into the mix and things really get interesting

"Do not rejoice, all you of Philistia, because the rod that struck you is broken; for out of the serpent's roots will come a viper, and its offspring will be a fiery flying serpent."
​

It seems that one may determine from the above references one of three possibilities:

1. that the serpent in the Garden of Eden was a walking talking snake, a lizard that could fly, a talking flying dragon!

2. The serpent was not a snake but the Devil himself

3. The more traditional view as i understand it, the devil possessed a beautiful flying snake and was speaking through it (which does not quite fit a couple of very specific Genesis statements and Josephus statements about the serpent..."was a very very crafty creature that could talk" and "had legs which were removed by God after the fall of man")

Are the medieval stories of flying dragons a little more realistic than we think?

thoughts?

Flying, walking snake = dragon. There are dragons in all world mythologies, not sure why though. People have believed in a lot of different mythical creatures. It's not that long since European scholars were writing commentaries on the spiritual status of the 'dog people', humans with the heads of dogs believed to live in some other part of the world, and whether they had human souls or not.

 

[TedT]

I for one have been witness to the light that shone to me in the darkest moment of my life. The truth is that His light exists without the sun.

For sure...

If we apply what we know of physical light to Gen 1:3 and following we get mired pretty fast...so I suggest we understand it as allusions to something else.

Genesis 1:3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.

WoW - light with no darkness... IF this light is the visible light our eyes can see, then by making it, it creates its own darkness...How can light be not separated from darkness or how can it be so separated if it wasn't already separated by its creation? Can this really apply to visible light? Doesn't sound like light we know, does it?

So, was GOD doing tricks with visible light or does this point to something else?

1 John 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.

Does "GOD is light" refer to a visible glow or shine like a star or sun? This is weird stuff right? Does “Let there be light,” mean HE self created HIMself? Well of course not, so light is a characteristic of GOD, a divine attribute:

1 John 1:5 And this is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you: God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
That God is light - Light, in the Scriptures, is the emblem of purity, truth, knowledge, prosperity, and happiness - as darkness is of the opposite. John here says that "God is light" - φῶς phōs - not the light, or a light, but light itself; that is, he is himself all light, and is the source and fountain of light in all worlds. He is perfectly pure, without any admixture of sin. He has all knowledge, with no admixture of ignorance on any subject. He is infinitely happy, with nothing to make him miserable. He is infinitely true, never stating or countenancing error; he is blessed in all his ways, never knowing the darkness of disappointment and adversity.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
...that is, as light is opposed to the darkness of sin; he is pure and holy in his nature and works, and of such pure eyes as not to behold iniquity; and so perfectly holy, that angels cover their times before him, when they speak of his holiness:

Vincent's Word Studies
God is Light (Θεὸς φῶς ἐστὶν)
A statement of the absolute nature of God. Not a light, nor the light, with reference to created beings, as the light of men, the light of the world, but simply and absolutely God is light, in His very nature. Compare God is spirit, and see on John 4:24 : God is love, 1 John 4:8, 1 John 4:16. The expression is not a metaphor. "All that we are accustomed to term light in the domain of the creature, whether with a physical or metaphysical meaning, is only an effluence of that one and only primitive Light which appears in the nature of God" (Ebrard). Light is immaterial, diffusive, pure, and glorious. It is the condition of life.

People's New Testament
John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him. The message heard from Christ, now declared, is that God is light. The source whence all light, whether it be physical, or moral, or spiritual, comes ; the Enlightener of the universe. The term denotes luminous clearness, the free and benevolent source from whence flow light, intelligence, purity and blessing, absolutely free from alien intermixture, since in him there is no darkness at all. Light represents truth, knowledge and holiness. Darkness represents ignorance, error, falsehood and sin.

In terms used by the Scripture to define LIGHT in other places, this would mean that GOD created goodness and separated it from evil…

LIGHT IS FAITH:
LIGHT is the moral attribute of goodness and life by faith unto righteousness and darkness is evil, rejecting GOD by faith, and death. And in Gen 1:4 GOD separated between them: Genesis 1:4 God saw that the light was good, and HE separated the light from the darkness.

This suggests that ALL people created in HIS image already existed by the end of verse 2 or between the verses and speaks to the free will decision that was the separation between all those who accepted YHWH as their GOD and those who rejected HIM as a false god.

So might not Genesis 1:3 read: And God said, “Let there be light,” [ie faith unto righteousness] and there was light [faith]. 4 God saw that the light [faith] was good, and he separated the light from the darkness [evil, rejecters, antagonists to HIS will]. ???

FAITH BY FREE WILL:
Pre-Conception Existence theology contends that HE did this by asking for our true free will decisions to either accept HIS purpose for our creation or by rejecting that purpose because we thought HE was a false god, unable to fulfill his warnings of the consequences, and we did not have to bow to anyone. The separation was finalized by the election of the sons of light to HIS eternal church while He left the dark to their chosen perdition.

To ensure that none of HIS newly elected church would be destroyed by sin, HE gave us all the gospel promise that if any of HIS elect should rebel against HIS will will and chose to become evil in HIS sight that though that would put them outside of HIS will, it would not put them outside of HIS grace nor love and that HE would always do what was necessary to bring them back to HIM in accord with their first true free will decision.

 

[SkyWriting]

True .... however everything has and is done through Jesus ...... EVERYTHING.

God is a plurality of 3, yet one.

Jesus is God. John wrote about Him: In the beginning was the Word [poetic description of Jesus], and the Word was with God and the Word was God (John 1:1 ESV). He created the world and all that is in it (John 1:3). The religious leaders of his time understood that Jesus claimed to be God (John 5:17-18). Paul wrote that when Jesus died, the Father revealed to the entire world that He was God (Philippians 2:5-11).

Jesus is the Son of God. According to the Bible, “Son of God” means: (1) He is fully God. (2) He is one of three persons who together make up the One God. Often referred to as the “Trinity.”

God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit work together. While each person of the Godhead has a distinct role in the plan of salvation, they unite in their mission.

John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is Himself God and is at the Father's side, has made Him known.

Colossians 1:15-17
He (Jesus) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

When you start holding Gays, prostitutes, and illegal aliens is the same regard as Jesus, then your argument might get some traction.

 

[coffee4u]

The Apostle Paul seems to indicate that Adam was not by her side at the time of the deception

1 Timothy 2 13-14 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression​

I don't think Paul is suggesting that Adam wasn't there when she was deceived as Genesis says he was right there.

Genesis 3
6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings.

Adam knew exactly what they were doing and didn't stop it. Also notice her eyes were not 'opened' when she ate, but only after he ate. I find that very interesting.

I think Paul is saying that women are more prone to being deceived and that the fall ultimately was Adam's fault.

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

 

[eleos1954]

When you start holding Gays, prostitutes, and illegal aliens is the same regard as Jesus, then your argument might get some traction.

Not sure why you brought this up ?

God loves all of mankind my friend ... all of them. John 3:16

 

[coffee4u]

When you start holding Gays, prostitutes, and illegal aliens is the same regard as Jesus, then your argument might get some traction.

Jesus taught us how we should esteem God (and Jesus is God) and how we should esteem other human beings. Not with the same regard at all. We are not to pray to or worship mere human beings who are all as fallen as ourselves. Just because their sins are different to our own makes no difference, we are all equally loved in God's sight.

Our regard for God; Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Luke 4:8
Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.’”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment.

Our regard for other people.
39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

 

[SkyWriting]

Not sure why you brought this up ?

God loves all of mankind my friend ... all of them. John 3:16

But if you don't then God wasted His Time and energy, and son.

 

[BeyondET]

Hmm so is there serpents and dragon?

Isaiah 27:1
In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

 

[eleos1954]

Hmm so is there serpents and dragon?

Isaiah 27:1
In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

Leviathan is symbolic of satan who is also symbolized as a dragon.

The symbol of "the sea" is similar to that seen in the beasts rising out of the sea and out of the earth (Revelation 13:1, 11). It designates origination, representing the realm of the earth. Christ's origin is the realm of heaven, but the beasts, part of a corrupt system, come from the sea and the earth. The sea, a body of water, symbolizes "peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues" (Revelation 17:15).

 

[Nitsud]

I pray for the great day of the Lord. In that day all eyes shall be opened, all knees shall bow. I pray the Lord forgives me the sinner that I am. Amen

I sit here looking at this screen, thinking to myself, "how can people think this way or that way, I know the truth, I have seen the His glory luminate a room." Then i stop myself. If I am the child of God that i like to believe, then why do i do the things that God would spit out like rotten rubbish?

I believe it is best put as the Christ put it.
“Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:”