Were Adam and Eve Saved?

Palmfever

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 5, 2019
647
349
Hawaii
✟146,121.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
We can toss scripture at each other until we bleed. I have a few things on this subject which I will simply post here. They deal more with the character of God and His foreknowledge and reason for creation. The sacrifice of His Son prior to creation.

Were Adam and Eve saved?

I’ve found some who actually seem to resent Adams misstep as if they would not have made that or any other mistake. That is a mistake in itself. Only one person was and is flawless. Christ.

So, did Adam remain in God’s favor after his expulsion from the garden? I prefer to believe yes.

I find it incongruous given God’s character of love, grace and forgiveness that Adam and Eve would be eternally damned after their initial mistake? Technically, while they had an edict from God concerning the tree of knowledge, God made no effort to constrain them, rather they were given the freedom to act in accordance with their own will. In their naivete they had no concept of good and evil. How could they? Evil had not yet exposed itself to the innocent Adam and Eve. It was this very act of disobedience which awoke the awareness in them, this action, was wrong. ( I know that is difficult to grasp, since God had given a direct command.)

No opportunity for redemption remains available if we, having once acted in error, are eternally excluded from a relationship with God? None would be saved. God may as well have destroyed Adam and Eve, then retained creation for himself. Or, eliminate that also. The creation of humanity would have been an exercise in futility. God, in His foreknowledge, (One may reasonably conclude,) would have aborted His desire to pursue the creation of mankind in its current form. Indeed He did regret having done so at one point. However this, is not our history. Humanity has of necessity, inherently been instilled with the freedom to choose compliance, and not to respond simply in the predetermined, coded, obsequious manner of fawning sycophants. This is made clear in the narrative of first man. Redemption from inevitable future missteps was anticipated, bad decisions were provided for, prior to creation. “The lamb that was slain before the foundation of the earth.” And also, 1 Peter, 1:20 “He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.”

One might argue that since God chose to create man, mankind were chosen, as indeed they were. This is not random life, born of chaos, without purpose, as science would have us believe. This is a calculated, well considered decision to make man in His image. Why does He desire that none should perish? His investment is consummate. His sacrifice complete. The intrinsic quality of self determination was essential, regardless the risk. “Yes,” has no value if a man has not the option of saying, “No.”

For what purpose did Christ relate the story of the prodigal son if once the son had chosen to exit the relationship, that relationship would be permanently broken? The story of the prodigal son is not such a story. It is not restricted simply to the sins of a son. It is a visage of God, a portrayal of our Fathers response to the wrong choice of a dearly loved son. A beloved member Who lived in this fathers heart, and home. “For this my son was dead, and is alive again, was lost and is found…” Luke 15:24

It is a story of Gods redemptive overtures, His desire for the restoration of a right relationship when His loved ones fail. This fathers love neither faltered, nor failed when his son chose pleasure over home and family. God allowed the prodigal son to chose his direction, then taught him the pitfalls in a life of self service and self satisfaction apart from his father.

Why the story of Hosea and Gomer? It’s a testimony of God’s heart for His people, his creation. A portrayal of mercy, forgiveness, and His abiding love and desire for restoration. Hosea was a mere player in the lesson God wished to convey.

Why does Paul encourage believers to restore those who have fallen? A man is sleeping with his fathers wife. This act surely is a sin which will bring death if not repented of. What is Paul’s concluding advice? Treat him as an outsider and in love woo him back into fellowship. The Spirit of God courts his sons and daughters. The church is, “The Bride of Christ.” When those invited rejected the invitation, the call went out to all found. Mat 22.

My determination pertaining to the unpardonable, the unforgivable sin is thus, a failure to repent. The failure to move from a self directed life, to a God directed life. “The devils also believe, and tremble.” Yes, however, the devils, do not submit. The great danger in a life of continual sin is as we grieve/quench the Spirit of God, we increase proportionately toward self direction. Reliant on oneself, we then seek and trust less on God’s Spirit as we cauterize our connection.

Do you not know that when you offer yourselves as obedient slaves, you are slaves to the one you obey, whether you are slaves to sin leading to death, or to obedience leading to righteousness? Rom, 6:16

Gen, 4. And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord… Eve clearly still believed and considered the Lord. She as the mother of all living, was grateful for the gift of a son and it was clear to her from the hand of whom it came.

Gen, 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again and she bare a son and called his name Seth; for God, she said, has appointed me another son instead of Abel whom Cain slew. This is 130 years from Adams creation. Eve still displays a relationship with God and gives Him the glory and thanks.

Subsequent to Adams fall, while yet in the garden, as they had became aware of their nakedness, God killed animals and made a covering for both Adam and Eve. Why shed blood? They had already made coverings of plants. Why did God favor Abel’s sacrifice of the firstborn of his sheep and not Cains plant offering? Is a pattern beginning to emerge from Adam and Eves sin, up to the day of Christ’s sacrifice? God then, provided the covering for sin by shedding of blood. God covered their shame. Christ ultimately covers all. “For a testament to be in effect, there must also be the death of the testator.” Heb, 9:16

We don’t know much of Adam and Eve, but what we do know about their offspring is that they had a mother who believed and expressed gratitude toward God, and from them sprang both men of faith, and yes, self centered, self aggrandizing, self directed men. The only way to be true to yourself, is to “die to self.” …“Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it. Mat, 16:24-25

1 Tim, 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. If Adam was not deceived, he then willfully disobeyed regardless of his inexperience and lack of understanding. I’m not attempting to assign blame, for they were one. God, told Adam, Adam told Eve, Eve disobeyed Adam and consequently God. God held them both accountable. Perhaps this, explains why Satan chose Eve as his initial target. Satan utilizes our vulnerabilities, those chinks in our armor, our loved ones and those closest to us as a point of entry, a method for deception.

We graciously however have been provided many examples for our benefit. We’ve been made aware of the wiles of the devil, the pitfalls into which ancestral believers stumbled. We hear the ever present voice of Gods Spirit directing and encouraging, drawing us forward in discernment and faith. When we walk with the Lord, we walk in His protection, and thrive in His care. “His Word is a lamp unto our feet.”

Rev, 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

“Behold I stand at the door and knock, if any man hear my voice and open the door, I will come into him, and will sup with him, and him with me.” Rev, 3:20

I know no man who can claim a perfect existence. Neither you, nor I are innocent apart from God’s work within us through Christ. So I reiterate my faith in Gods grace. Then in the garden, as now, Christ covers our shame. And while I have no concrete vision of heaven I do in hope anticipate, a meeting in heaven with those who have gone before. Including Adam and Eve. “Rather, as it is written: “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no heart has imagined, what God has prepared for those who love Him.” 1 Cor, 2:9.

Man was made perfect as a per Gods design, he was not made infallible.
 

1an

Newbie
Dec 4, 2011
1,528
182
✟48,487.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
We can toss scripture at each other until we bleed. I have a few things on this subject which I will simply post here. They deal more with the character of God and His foreknowledge and reason for creation. The sacrifice of His Son prior to creation.

Were Adam and Eve saved?

I’ve found some who actually seem to resent Adams misstep as if they would not have made that or any other mistake. That is a mistake in itself. Only one person was and is flawless. Christ.

So, did Adam remain in God’s favor after his expulsion from the garden? I prefer to believe yes.

I find it incongruous given God’s character of love, grace and forgiveness that Adam and Eve would be eternally damned after their initial mistake? Technically, while they had an edict from God concerning the tree of knowledge, God made no effort to constrain them, rather they were given the freedom to act in accordance with their own will. In their naivete they had no concept of good and evil. How could they? Evil had not yet exposed itself to the innocent Adam and Eve. It was this very act of disobedience which awoke the awareness in them, this action, was wrong. ( I know that is difficult to grasp, since God had given a direct command.)

No opportunity for redemption remains available if we, having once acted in error, are eternally excluded from a relationship with God? None would be saved. God may as well have destroyed Adam and Eve, then retained creation for himself. Or, eliminate that also. The creation of humanity would have been an exercise in futility. God, in His foreknowledge, (One may reasonably conclude,) would have aborted His desire to pursue the creation of mankind in its current form. Indeed He did regret having done so at one point. However this, is not our history. Humanity has of necessity, inherently been instilled with the freedom to choose compliance, and not to respond simply in the predetermined, coded, obsequious manner of fawning sycophants. This is made clear in the narrative of first man. Redemption from inevitable future missteps was anticipated, bad decisions were provided for, prior to creation. “The lamb that was slain before the foundation of the earth.” And also, 1 Peter, 1:20 “He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.”

One might argue that since God chose to create man, mankind were chosen, as indeed they were. This is not random life, born of chaos, without purpose, as science would have us believe. This is a calculated, well considered decision to make man in His image. Why does He desire that none should perish? His investment is consummate. His sacrifice complete. The intrinsic quality of self determination was essential, regardless the risk. “Yes,” has no value if a man has not the option of saying, “No.”

For what purpose did Christ relate the story of the prodigal son if once the son had chosen to exit the relationship, that relationship would be permanently broken? The story of the prodigal son is not such a story. It is not restricted simply to the sins of a son. It is a visage of God, a portrayal of our Fathers response to the wrong choice of a dearly loved son. A beloved member Who lived in this fathers heart, and home. “For this my son was dead, and is alive again, was lost and is found…” Luke 15:24

It is a story of Gods redemptive overtures, His desire for the restoration of a right relationship when His loved ones fail. This fathers love neither faltered, nor failed when his son chose pleasure over home and family. God allowed the prodigal son to chose his direction, then taught him the pitfalls in a life of self service and self satisfaction apart from his father.

Why the story of Hosea and Gomer? It’s a testimony of God’s heart for His people, his creation. A portrayal of mercy, forgiveness, and His abiding love and desire for restoration. Hosea was a mere player in the lesson God wished to convey.

Why does Paul encourage believers to restore those who have fallen? A man is sleeping with his fathers wife. This act surely is a sin which will bring death if not repented of. What is Paul’s concluding advice? Treat him as an outsider and in love woo him back into fellowship. The Spirit of God courts his sons and daughters. The church is, “The Bride of Christ.” When those invited rejected the invitation, the call went out to all found. Mat 22.

My determination pertaining to the unpardonable, the unforgivable sin is thus, a failure to repent. The failure to move from a self directed life, to a God directed life. “The devils also believe, and tremble.” Yes, however, the devils, do not submit. The great danger in a life of continual sin is as we grieve/quench the Spirit of God, we increase proportionately toward self direction. Reliant on oneself, we then seek and trust less on God’s Spirit as we cauterize our connection.

Do you not know that when you offer yourselves as obedient slaves, you are slaves to the one you obey, whether you are slaves to sin leading to death, or to obedience leading to righteousness? Rom, 6:16

Gen, 4. And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord… Eve clearly still believed and considered the Lord. She as the mother of all living, was grateful for the gift of a son and it was clear to her from the hand of whom it came.

Gen, 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again and she bare a son and called his name Seth; for God, she said, has appointed me another son instead of Abel whom Cain slew. This is 130 years from Adams creation. Eve still displays a relationship with God and gives Him the glory and thanks.

Subsequent to Adams fall, while yet in the garden, as they had became aware of their nakedness, God killed animals and made a covering for both Adam and Eve. Why shed blood? They had already made coverings of plants. Why did God favor Abel’s sacrifice of the firstborn of his sheep and not Cains plant offering? Is a pattern beginning to emerge from Adam and Eves sin, up to the day of Christ’s sacrifice? God then, provided the covering for sin by shedding of blood. God covered their shame. Christ ultimately covers all. “For a testament to be in effect, there must also be the death of the testator.” Heb, 9:16

We don’t know much of Adam and Eve, but what we do know about their offspring is that they had a mother who believed and expressed gratitude toward God, and from them sprang both men of faith, and yes, self centered, self aggrandizing, self directed men. The only way to be true to yourself, is to “die to self.” …“Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it. Mat, 16:24-25

1 Tim, 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. If Adam was not deceived, he then willfully disobeyed regardless of his inexperience and lack of understanding. I’m not attempting to assign blame, for they were one. God, told Adam, Adam told Eve, Eve disobeyed Adam and consequently God. God held them both accountable. Perhaps this, explains why Satan chose Eve as his initial target. Satan utilizes our vulnerabilities, those chinks in our armor, our loved ones and those closest to us as a point of entry, a method for deception.

We graciously however have been provided many examples for our benefit. We’ve been made aware of the wiles of the devil, the pitfalls into which ancestral believers stumbled. We hear the ever present voice of Gods Spirit directing and encouraging, drawing us forward in discernment and faith. When we walk with the Lord, we walk in His protection, and thrive in His care. “His Word is a lamp unto our feet.”

Rev, 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

“Behold I stand at the door and knock, if any man hear my voice and open the door, I will come into him, and will sup with him, and him with me.” Rev, 3:20

I know no man who can claim a perfect existence. Neither you, nor I are innocent apart from God’s work within us through Christ. So I reiterate my faith in Gods grace. Then in the garden, as now, Christ covers our shame. And while I have no concrete vision of heaven I do in hope anticipate, a meeting in heaven with those who have gone before. Including Adam and Eve. “Rather, as it is written: “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no heart has imagined, what God has prepared for those who love Him.” 1 Cor, 2:9.

Man was made perfect as a per Gods design, he was not made infallible.
They were thrust out from the presence of God and into a wicked world where one of their sons killed another of their sons. No, that is not heaven, it is more like the place where Satan dwells, hell on earth, the god of this world.
 
Upvote 0

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
I'm in agreement with the Greek Orthodox Church as to what became of Adam & Eve during Christ's victory over death. That story is in this pictorial:

resurrection2.jpg


The Resurrection | Icon of Victory

Quoting from the linked article:

Christ is risen from the dead,
Trampling down death by death,
And upon those in the tombs bestowing life!
-Paschal (Easter) Hymn

Jesus Christ was not content with laying in the tomb for three days after His crucifixion. Instead, while His body was entombed, Christ’s soul descended into Hades. Christ descended there not to suffer, but to fight, and free the souls trapped there. Just as bringing a light into darkness causes the darkness to disappear, the Source of all Life descending into the abode of the dead resulted in Jesus’ victory over death, and not death’s victory over Jesus. This is the full reality of what Christ’s death and resurrection accomplished.

In the Icon, Jesus Christ stands victoriously in the centre. Robed in Heavenly white, He is surrounded by a mandorla of star-studded light, representing the Glory of God. Christ is shown dramatically pulling Adam, the first man, from the tomb. Eve is to Christ’s left, hands held out in supplication, also waiting for Jesus to act. This humble surrender to Jesus is all Adam and Eve need to do, and all they are able to do. Christ does the rest, which is why He is pulling Adam from the tomb by the wrist, and not the hand. - The Resurrection | Icon of Victory
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Reactions: Saint Steven
Upvote 0

Josheb

Christian
Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
2,172
830
NoVa
✟160,065.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Let me first affirm the last sentence of this op. The first two humans were not infallible. However, the were perfectly incomplete. 1 Corinthians informs us they were "sown mortal and corruptible," not "already-dead and corrupted."
In their naivete they had no concept of good and evil. How could they? Evil had not yet exposed itself to the innocent Adam and Eve. It was this very act of disobedience which awoke the awareness in them, this action, was wrong. ( I know that is difficult to grasp, since God had given a direct command.)
There are a few things incorrect within this op.

The claim Adam and Eve were naive and therefore ignorant is first and foremost a false-cause fallacy. Naivety is not always ignorance; it is often simply a different form of knowledge and knowing. Fundamentally, what you're trying to do is understand a state of sinless lack of experiential knowledge from a position of sinful ignorance. There is knowledge by contrast and knowledge by experience. When Adam disobeyed God he experienced sin and he experienced the changed from sinlessness to sinfulness. No one since Genesis 3:7 has ever had that experience. We are all born with the influence sin an inherent part of our being. Adam and Eve were the last two humans (apart from Jesus) to know and exist in the goodness all the rest of us lack. We are the ignorant ones.

Genesis 1:31 states quite plainly everything God made in the first six days was "very good." We are also told that Adam and Eve (A&E) were naked and unashamed. Romans 5 tells us it was through the one man's disobedience that sin and death entered the world. So.... what we necessarily know about the pre-disobedient A&E is that they were 1) good, 2) unashamed, and 3) sinless.

This provides them with a unique position no human has had since then; a unique position for perceiving, knowing, experiencing, and understanding the world as God made it. We are the ignorant ones, not the pre-disobedient A&E!

Simply put, the pre-disobedient Adam and the pre-disobedient Eve could have and should have understood that which was not-good simply because it was not good. Notice the hyphen. They were made good. Anything different than good could, would, and should instantly be recognized as somehow different, as not-good. It is a plain and simple dialectic; thesis and antithesis. The comparative analogy is the purported training Secret Service agents receive learning how to recognize counterfeit money by becoming so familiar with the genuine article they are instantly able to recognize the counterfeit simply because it is recognized as not-genuine. They are (reportedly) never exposed to the fake bill until they have become so thoroughly knowledgeable of that which is good, pure, and..... sinless.

So you and I and every other Christian should understand A&E's goodness was not an ignorant naivety, but a naivety of knowledge of goodness that lacked shame and sin, and was thereby a naivety of liberty by which they were in fact empowered - if they so choose - to fulfill the first command: "...subdue the earth and rule over it." They were given authority over all of the plants and animals in the Garden...... the snake was an animal in the Garden. They were not ignorant nor powerless.

And theologians have understood this for centuries. I first read about this in a book written in the late 60's; "The God Who is There," by Francis Schaeffer. Writers such as Alvin Plantinga, C. S. Lewis, Lesslie Newbigin, and Cornelius Van Til have articulated the same understanding. I suggest you start with Schaeffer's trilogy.

Consider some evidence that might help you understand they weren't as ignorant as some make them out to be: They clearly understood language. When God spoke to them His words would have been jibberish had they not already possessed a knowledge of language and meaning. We know they were able to repeat what was commanded because Eve repeats the second command and adds to what was previously stated. In other words, by adding to the command she demonstrates an understanding of language and meaning. Some have argued they had no knowledge of death, but the death consequent to sin was not physical death. Adam and Eve were mortal. We know this because 1) immortal creatures cannot die, 2) they would have had no need for a tree of life, and 3) 1 Cor. 15 tells us they were sown mortal and corruptible, not immortal and incorruptible. So think about that reality. If a cow, for example, stepped off a cliff and plummeted to its instant abrupt stop at the foot of the cliff would it have survived impact? Were the laws of physics so different in Eden that the impact of gravity was suspended? Were cows, chickens, fish immortal? Were the corpses of dead plants and animals just sitting around Eden without any of the ordinary processes of decomposition by which their bodies were broken down and used as nutrients for new growth? As Adam and Eve grew the Garden beyond its original boundaries and subdued the entire earth were they going to need clothing for the colder climates? Isit not likely they might have killed cotton plants in order to make clothing? Or slaughtered animals for their hide, again to make clothing? So if they understood the death of an animal in both accidental and deliberate ways then they understood the idea of their own demise.

Adam and Eve were not ignorant. Their naivety was not ignorance and it certainly need not have made them powerless but instead exactly the opposite.
 
Upvote 0

Palmfever

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 5, 2019
647
349
Hawaii
✟146,121.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Let me first affirm the last sentence of this op. The first two humans were not infallible. However, the were perfectly incomplete. 1 Corinthians informs us they were "sown mortal and corruptible," not "already-dead and corrupted."

There are a few things incorrect within this op.

The claim Adam and Eve were naive and therefore ignorant is first and foremost a false-cause fallacy. Naivety is not always ignorance; it is often simply a different form of knowledge and knowing. Fundamentally, what you're trying to do is understand a state of sinless lack of experiential knowledge from a position of sinful ignorance. There is knowledge by contrast and knowledge by experience. When Adam disobeyed God he experienced sin and he experienced the changed from sinlessness to sinfulness. No one since Genesis 3:7 has ever had that experience. We are all born with the influence sin an inherent part of our being. Adam and Eve were the last two humans (apart from Jesus) to know and exist in the goodness all the rest of us lack. We are the ignorant ones.

Genesis 1:31 states quite plainly everything God made in the first six days was "very good." We are also told that Adam and Eve (A&E) were naked and unashamed. Romans 5 tells us it was through the one man's disobedience that sin and death entered the world. So.... what we necessarily know about the pre-disobedient A&E is that they were 1) good, 2) unashamed, and 3) sinless.

This provides them with a unique position no human has had since then; a unique position for perceiving, knowing, experiencing, and understanding the world as God made it. We are the ignorant ones, not the pre-disobedient A&E!

Simply put, the pre-disobedient Adam and the pre-disobedient Eve could have and should have understood that which was not-good simply because it was not good. Notice the hyphen. They were made good. Anything different than good could, would, and should instantly be recognized as somehow different, as not-good. It is a plain and simple dialectic; thesis and antithesis. The comparative analogy is the purported training Secret Service agents receive learning how to recognize counterfeit money by becoming so familiar with the genuine article they are instantly able to recognize the counterfeit simply because it is recognized as not-genuine. They are (reportedly) never exposed to the fake bill until they have become so thoroughly knowledgeable of that which is good, pure, and..... sinless.

So you and I and every other Christian should understand A&E's goodness was not an ignorant naivety, but a naivety of knowledge of goodness that lacked shame and sin, and was thereby a naivety of liberty by which they were in fact empowered - if they so choose - to fulfill the first command: "...subdue the earth and rule over it." They were given authority over all of the plants and animals in the Garden...... the snake was an animal in the Garden. They were not ignorant nor powerless.

And theologians have understood this for centuries. I first read about this in a book written in the late 60's; "The God Who is There," by Francis Schaeffer. Writers such as Alvin Plantinga, C. S. Lewis, Lesslie Newbigin, and Cornelius Van Til have articulated the same understanding. I suggest you start with Schaeffer's trilogy.

Consider some evidence that might help you understand they weren't as ignorant as some make them out to be: They clearly understood language. When God spoke to them His words would have been jibberish had they not already possessed a knowledge of language and meaning. We know they were able to repeat what was commanded because Eve repeats the second command and adds to what was previously stated. In other words, by adding to the command she demonstrates an understanding of language and meaning. Some have argued they had no knowledge of death, but the death consequent to sin was not physical death. Adam and Eve were mortal. We know this because 1) immortal creatures cannot die, 2) they would have had no need for a tree of life, and 3) 1 Cor. 15 tells us they were sown mortal and corruptible, not immortal and incorruptible. So think about that reality. If a cow, for example, stepped off a cliff and plummeted to its instant abrupt stop at the foot of the cliff would it have survived impact? Were the laws of physics so different in Eden that the impact of gravity was suspended? Were cows, chickens, fish immortal? Were the corpses of dead plants and animals just sitting around Eden without any of the ordinary processes of decomposition by which their bodies were broken down and used as nutrients for new growth? As Adam and Eve grew the Garden beyond its original boundaries and subdued the entire earth were they going to need clothing for the colder climates? Isit not likely they might have killed cotton plants in order to make clothing? Or slaughtered animals for their hide, again to make clothing? So if they understood the death of an animal in both accidental and deliberate ways then they understood the idea of their own demise.

Adam and Eve were not ignorant. Their naivety was not ignorance and it certainly need not have made them powerless but instead exactly the opposite.
Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

I don’t see this as an implication here when God says, “ the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil”. It seems pretty clear. He is become.

Merriam Webster, Become:

1. to come into existence

to come to be

2. to undergo change or development

Adam came to know good and evil.
God Bless
 
  • Like
Reactions: Saint Steven
Upvote 0

DennisTate

Newbie
Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
We can toss scripture at each other until we bleed. I have a few things on this subject which I will simply post here. They deal more with the character of God and His foreknowledge and reason for creation. The sacrifice of His Son prior to creation.

Were Adam and Eve saved?

I’ve found some who actually seem to resent Adams misstep as if they would not have made that or any other mistake. That is a mistake in itself. Only one person was and is flawless. Christ.

So, did Adam remain in God’s favor after his expulsion from the garden? I prefer to believe yes.

I find it incongruous given God’s character of love, grace and forgiveness that Adam and Eve would be eternally damned after their initial mistake? Technically, while they had an edict from God concerning the tree of knowledge, God made no effort to constrain them, rather they were given the freedom to act in accordance with their own will. In their naivete they had no concept of good and evil. How could they? Evil had not yet exposed itself to the innocent Adam and Eve. It was this very act of disobedience which awoke the awareness in them, this action, was wrong. ( I know that is difficult to grasp, since God had given a direct command.)

No opportunity for redemption remains available if we, having once acted in error, are eternally excluded from a relationship with God? None would be saved. God may as well have destroyed Adam and Eve, then retained creation for himself. Or, eliminate that also. The creation of humanity would have been an exercise in futility. God, in His foreknowledge, (One may reasonably conclude,) would have aborted His desire to pursue the creation of mankind in its current form. Indeed He did regret having done so at one point. However this, is not our history. Humanity has of necessity, inherently been instilled with the freedom to choose compliance, and not to respond simply in the predetermined, coded, obsequious manner of fawning sycophants. This is made clear in the narrative of first man. Redemption from inevitable future missteps was anticipated, bad decisions were provided for, prior to creation. “The lamb that was slain before the foundation of the earth.” And also, 1 Peter, 1:20 “He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.”

One might argue that since God chose to create man, mankind were chosen, as indeed they were. This is not random life, born of chaos, without purpose, as science would have us believe. This is a calculated, well considered decision to make man in His image. Why does He desire that none should perish? His investment is consummate. His sacrifice complete. The intrinsic quality of self determination was essential, regardless the risk. “Yes,” has no value if a man has not the option of saying, “No.”

For what purpose did Christ relate the story of the prodigal son if once the son had chosen to exit the relationship, that relationship would be permanently broken? The story of the prodigal son is not such a story. It is not restricted simply to the sins of a son. It is a visage of God, a portrayal of our Fathers response to the wrong choice of a dearly loved son. A beloved member Who lived in this fathers heart, and home. “For this my son was dead, and is alive again, was lost and is found…” Luke 15:24

It is a story of Gods redemptive overtures, His desire for the restoration of a right relationship when His loved ones fail. This fathers love neither faltered, nor failed when his son chose pleasure over home and family. God allowed the prodigal son to chose his direction, then taught him the pitfalls in a life of self service and self satisfaction apart from his father.

Why the story of Hosea and Gomer? It’s a testimony of God’s heart for His people, his creation. A portrayal of mercy, forgiveness, and His abiding love and desire for restoration. Hosea was a mere player in the lesson God wished to convey.

Why does Paul encourage believers to restore those who have fallen? A man is sleeping with his fathers wife. This act surely is a sin which will bring death if not repented of. What is Paul’s concluding advice? Treat him as an outsider and in love woo him back into fellowship. The Spirit of God courts his sons and daughters. The church is, “The Bride of Christ.” When those invited rejected the invitation, the call went out to all found. Mat 22.

My determination pertaining to the unpardonable, the unforgivable sin is thus, a failure to repent. The failure to move from a self directed life, to a God directed life. “The devils also believe, and tremble.” Yes, however, the devils, do not submit. The great danger in a life of continual sin is as we grieve/quench the Spirit of God, we increase proportionately toward self direction. Reliant on oneself, we then seek and trust less on God’s Spirit as we cauterize our connection.

Do you not know that when you offer yourselves as obedient slaves, you are slaves to the one you obey, whether you are slaves to sin leading to death, or to obedience leading to righteousness? Rom, 6:16

Gen, 4. And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord… Eve clearly still believed and considered the Lord. She as the mother of all living, was grateful for the gift of a son and it was clear to her from the hand of whom it came.

Gen, 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again and she bare a son and called his name Seth; for God, she said, has appointed me another son instead of Abel whom Cain slew. This is 130 years from Adams creation. Eve still displays a relationship with God and gives Him the glory and thanks.

Subsequent to Adams fall, while yet in the garden, as they had became aware of their nakedness, God killed animals and made a covering for both Adam and Eve. Why shed blood? They had already made coverings of plants. Why did God favor Abel’s sacrifice of the firstborn of his sheep and not Cains plant offering? Is a pattern beginning to emerge from Adam and Eves sin, up to the day of Christ’s sacrifice? God then, provided the covering for sin by shedding of blood. God covered their shame. Christ ultimately covers all. “For a testament to be in effect, there must also be the death of the testator.” Heb, 9:16

We don’t know much of Adam and Eve, but what we do know about their offspring is that they had a mother who believed and expressed gratitude toward God, and from them sprang both men of faith, and yes, self centered, self aggrandizing, self directed men. The only way to be true to yourself, is to “die to self.” …“Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it. Mat, 16:24-25

1 Tim, 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. If Adam was not deceived, he then willfully disobeyed regardless of his inexperience and lack of understanding. I’m not attempting to assign blame, for they were one. God, told Adam, Adam told Eve, Eve disobeyed Adam and consequently God. God held them both accountable. Perhaps this, explains why Satan chose Eve as his initial target. Satan utilizes our vulnerabilities, those chinks in our armor, our loved ones and those closest to us as a point of entry, a method for deception.

We graciously however have been provided many examples for our benefit. We’ve been made aware of the wiles of the devil, the pitfalls into which ancestral believers stumbled. We hear the ever present voice of Gods Spirit directing and encouraging, drawing us forward in discernment and faith. When we walk with the Lord, we walk in His protection, and thrive in His care. “His Word is a lamp unto our feet.”

Rev, 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

“Behold I stand at the door and knock, if any man hear my voice and open the door, I will come into him, and will sup with him, and him with me.” Rev, 3:20

I know no man who can claim a perfect existence. Neither you, nor I are innocent apart from God’s work within us through Christ. So I reiterate my faith in Gods grace. Then in the garden, as now, Christ covers our shame. And while I have no concrete vision of heaven I do in hope anticipate, a meeting in heaven with those who have gone before. Including Adam and Eve. “Rather, as it is written: “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no heart has imagined, what God has prepared for those who love Him.” 1 Cor, 2:9.

Man was made perfect as a per Gods design, he was not made infallible.


IF... the 1995 dream given to Pastor Rick Joyner was from God.... then..... YES.

A message from Adam to all of humanity?! Does this sound legitimate to you???


Pastor Rick Joyner: "Love Releases Life

Another man who looked almost exactly like Abel came and stood beside him.

"I am Adam," he said. "I was given authority over the earth, but I gave it to the evil one by obeying evil. He now rules in my place and your place. The earth was given to man, but the evil one has taken it. The authority I lost was restored by the cross. Jesus Christ is "the last Adam," and He will soon take His authority and rule. He will rule through mankind because He gave the earth to mankind. Those who live in your times will prepare the earth for Him to rule."

"Please tell me more," I asked, a little surprised to see Adam, but wanting to hear everything he had to say. "How do we prepare for Him?"

"Love," he said. "You must love one another. You must love the earth, and you must love life. My sin released the death that now flows as rivers upon the earth. Your love will release rivers of life. When evil reigns, death is stronger than life, and death prevails over life. When righteousness reigns, life prevails, and life is stronger than death. Soon the life of the Son of God will swallow up the death that was released through my disobedience. It is not just living that you must love, but life. Death is your enemy. You are called to be a messenger of life.

"When the Lord's people begin to love, He will use them to release His judgments. His judgments are to be desired. The whole world is groaning and travailing as it waits for His judgments, and when they come, the world will learn righteousness. What He is about to do, He will do through His people, and His people will stand as Elijah in the last days. Their words will shut up the heavens or bring rain; they will prophesy earthquakes and famines, and they will come to pass; they will stop famines and earthquakes.

"When they release armies in the heavens, armies will march on the earth. When they hold back armies, there will be peace. They will decide where He shows mercy and where He shows His wrath. They will have this authority because they will love, and those who love will be one with Him. What you will see through that door is to help prepare you for what He is about to do through His people.

"I know authority. I also know the responsibility of authority. Because of the great authority that I was given, I am responsible for what has happened to the earth. Even so, the grace of God began to cover me, and God's great redemption will soon swallow up my mistake. Peace will be taken from the earth, but you are called to help restore it. Peace prevails in heaven, and you are called to bring heaven to earth. Those who abide in His presence will know peace and will spread peace.

"The earth itself will shake and tremble. Times of trouble greater than have ever been known will begin to move across the earth like great waves of the sea. Even so, those who know Him will not be troubled. They will stand before the raging of the seas and say, "Peace, be still" and the seas will be calm. Even the least of His little ones will be like a great fortress of peace that will stand through all that is coming. His glory will be revealed to His people first and then through them. Even the creation will recognize Him in His people and will obey them as it does Him.

"This is the authority that I had, and it will be given to mankind again. I used my authority to turn Paradise into a wilderness. The Lord will use His authority to turn the wilderness into Paradise again. This is the authority that He is giving to His people. I used mine wrongly and death came. When His authority is used in righteousness, it will release life. Be careful how you use authority. With authority comes responsibility. You, too, can use it wrongly, but you will not do this if you love. As all of heaven knows, "Love never fails."

"What about the earthquakes, famines and even wars that you said we would release on the earth? Won't this be releasing death?" I asked.

"All the death that is coming upon the world is being allowed to prepare the way for life. Everything that is sown must be reaped, unless those who have sown evil call upon the cross in Spirit and truth. The army of the cross is about to be released, and it will march in the power of the cross, carrying the offer of mercy to all. Those who reject the mercy of God have rejected life."

"That is a great responsibility," I said. "How do we know when they have rejected His mercy?"

"Disobedience brought death, and obedience will bring life. When I walked with God, He taught me His ways. As I walked with Him, I began to know Him. You must walk with God and learn of His ways. Your authority is His authority, and you must be one with Him in order to use it. The weapons of His army are not carnal" they are spiritual and much more powerful than any earthly weapons. Your most powerful weapons are truth and love. Even the final judgment of destruction is God's love extended in mercy.

"When truth spoken in love is rejected, death has been chosen over life. You will understand this as you walk with Him. You will come to understand the Spirit that He has given to you to bring life and not death. There is a time to give men over to reap what they have sown, but you must do all things in obedience. Jesus came to give life. He does not desire for any to perish, and this must be your desire also. For this reason, you must even love your enemies if you are to be trusted with the authority that He wants to give to His people.

'The time is at hand for the fulfillment of what has been written. His people have prayed for more time, and He gave it to them. However, few have used it wisely. You have a little more time, but soon the time can no longer be delayed. The time is near when time itself will seem to speed up. As it is written, when He comes, He will come quickly. However, you are not to fear the times. If you fear Him, you do not need to fear anything that is coming upon the earth.

"All that is about to happen is coming so that His wisdom can again prevail on earth just as it does in heaven. All of the evil that was sown in mankind is about to be reaped. Even so, the good that He has sown will also be reaped. Goodness is stronger than evil. Love is stronger than death. He walked the earth to destroy the works of the devil, and He will finish what He has begun." (Rick Joyner, from his book The Call and The Vision)

In my opinion.... I think that Adam and Eve were Saved... but I admit that I am biased.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Palmfever
Upvote 0

DennisTate

Newbie
Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
IF... the "Book of Adam and Eve" that was preserved into our time period in the Coptic Ethiopian language was accurate on a par with the other books in the apocryphe then........

... it seems that no other murder after Cain murdering Abel occurred on the mountain where Adam and his faithful descandants lived...... until after the time of Adam's death..... which in my opinion indicates nothing short of a miracle plus a high level of guidance by the Holy Spirit.......
 
Upvote 0

Palmfever

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 5, 2019
647
349
Hawaii
✟146,121.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Let me first affirm the last sentence of this op. The first two humans were not infallible. However, the were perfectly incomplete. 1 Corinthians informs us they were "sown mortal and corruptible," not "already-dead and corrupted."

There are a few things incorrect within this op.

The claim Adam and Eve were naive and therefore ignorant is first and foremost a false-cause fallacy. Naivety is not always ignorance; it is often simply a different form of knowledge and knowing. Fundamentally, what you're trying to do is understand a state of sinless lack of experiential knowledge from a position of sinful ignorance. There is knowledge by contrast and knowledge by experience. When Adam disobeyed God he experienced sin and he experienced the changed from sinlessness to sinfulness. No one since Genesis 3:7 has ever had that experience. We are all born with the influence sin an inherent part of our being. Adam and Eve were the last two humans (apart from Jesus) to know and exist in the goodness all the rest of us lack. We are the ignorant ones.

Genesis 1:31 states quite plainly everything God made in the first six days was "very good." We are also told that Adam and Eve (A&E) were naked and unashamed. Romans 5 tells us it was through the one man's disobedience that sin and death entered the world. So.... what we necessarily know about the pre-disobedient A&E is that they were 1) good, 2) unashamed, and 3) sinless.

This provides them with a unique position no human has had since then; a unique position for perceiving, knowing, experiencing, and understanding the world as God made it. We are the ignorant ones, not the pre-disobedient A&E!

Simply put, the pre-disobedient Adam and the pre-disobedient Eve could have and should have understood that which was not-good simply because it was not good. Notice the hyphen. They were made good. Anything different than good could, would, and should instantly be recognized as somehow different, as not-good. It is a plain and simple dialectic; thesis and antithesis. The comparative analogy is the purported training Secret Service agents receive learning how to recognize counterfeit money by becoming so familiar with the genuine article they are instantly able to recognize the counterfeit simply because it is recognized as not-genuine. They are (reportedly) never exposed to the fake bill until they have become so thoroughly knowledgeable of that which is good, pure, and..... sinless.

So you and I and every other Christian should understand A&E's goodness was not an ignorant naivety, but a naivety of knowledge of goodness that lacked shame and sin, and was thereby a naivety of liberty by which they were in fact empowered - if they so choose - to fulfill the first command: "...subdue the earth and rule over it." They were given authority over all of the plants and animals in the Garden...... the snake was an animal in the Garden. They were not ignorant nor powerless.

And theologians have understood this for centuries. I first read about this in a book written in the late 60's; "The God Who is There," by Francis Schaeffer. Writers such as Alvin Plantinga, C. S. Lewis, Lesslie Newbigin, and Cornelius Van Til have articulated the same understanding. I suggest you start with Schaeffer's trilogy.

Consider some evidence that might help you understand they weren't as ignorant as some make them out to be: They clearly understood language. When God spoke to them His words would have been jibberish had they not already possessed a knowledge of language and meaning. We know they were able to repeat what was commanded because Eve repeats the second command and adds to what was previously stated. In other words, by adding to the command she demonstrates an understanding of language and meaning. Some have argued they had no knowledge of death, but the death consequent to sin was not physical death. Adam and Eve were mortal. We know this because 1) immortal creatures cannot die, 2) they would have had no need for a tree of life, and 3) 1 Cor. 15 tells us they were sown mortal and corruptible, not immortal and incorruptible. So think about that reality. If a cow, for example, stepped off a cliff and plummeted to its instant abrupt stop at the foot of the cliff would it have survived impact? Were the laws of physics so different in Eden that the impact of gravity was suspended? Were cows, chickens, fish immortal? Were the corpses of dead plants and animals just sitting around Eden without any of the ordinary processes of decomposition by which their bodies were broken down and used as nutrients for new growth? As Adam and Eve grew the Garden beyond its original boundaries and subdued the entire earth were they going to need clothing for the colder climates? Isit not likely they might have killed cotton plants in order to make clothing? Or slaughtered animals for their hide, again to make clothing? So if they understood the death of an animal in both accidental and deliberate ways then they understood the idea of their own demise.

Adam and Eve were not ignorant. Their naivety was not ignorance and it certainly need not have made them powerless but instead exactly the opposite.
Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

I don’t see this as an implication here when God says, “ the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil”. It seems pretty clear. He is become.

Merriam Webster, Become:

1. to come into existence

to come to be

2. to undergo change or development

Adam came to know good and evil.
God Bless
 
Upvote 0

Josheb

Christian
Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
2,172
830
NoVa
✟160,065.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

I don’t see this as an implication here when God says, “ the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil”. It seems pretty clear. He is become.

Merriam Webster, Become:

1. to come into existence

to come to be

2. to undergo change or development

Adam came to know good and evil.
God Bless
I'm not sure whether this post to which I now reply is intended to affirm what I previously posted or dissent, but I've already addressed this matter. Please go back and re-read what I posted. Note the distinction between knowledge by contrast or comparison and knowledge by experience. Note also that what you've done is proof-text a single verse. Removing Genesis 3:22 from its context - the context of a now sinful world instead of the previously sinless world - will always lead to failed understanding. Adam (and Eve) now knew evil experientially, not merely by contrast. Having learned of evil experientially he was no lonager able to correctly know by way of contrast as he had originally been made to do. God, of course, knows both good and evil in all ways; in an already sinful world He creates evil (Isa. 45:7).
 
Upvote 0

Josheb

Christian
Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
2,172
830
NoVa
✟160,065.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Were Adam and Eve saved?
We do not know for sure because scripture does not speak to such an occurrence directly, so any answer will necessarily be speculative.

However, any attempt to answer the question will first have to ask, "Saved from what?" and, of course, the answer the Bible states is 1) sin, and 2) the commensurate wrath of God. Furthermore, we necessarily understand there is only one means of salvation from sin and wrath: grace through faith in the resurrected Son. So this means we must have some evidence God had saving grace on Adam and Eve (A&E) and A&E had faith in the resurrected Son.

We do know they had some awareness of Jesus because the Tree of Life is in Eden and they are told the seed of a woman will crush the serpent's head. We also know God did have grace on them because 1) He did not slay them instantly and 2) He covered them Himself, symbolically indicated the blood sacrifice that would eventually cover all sin. Whether or not A&E understood any of this soteriologically is unstated but we do know that their first progeny, Cain and Abel, understood the matter of sacrificial offering and by the time of Seth men began to call upon the Lord.

Evidence, but not conclusive. Many have believed in God and not been saved. Many have believed in Jesus and not been saved (Mt. 7:23).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Palmfever
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Again with the false teacher bit....
IF... the 1995 dream given to Pastor Rick Joyner was from God.... then..... YES.
The text in what you quoted he said makes it clear he did not hear from God nor have a Godly experience.
In my opinion.... I think that Adam and Eve were Saved... but I admit that I am biased.
Worse than biased... very much contrary to Scripture in your posts just in this thread !
IF... the "Book of Adam and Eve" that was preserved into our time period in the Coptic Ethiopian language was accurate on a par with the other books in the apocryphe then........
It was not and is not Scripture, so it is "on par", not inspired, with many other books.
 
Upvote 0

1213

Disciple of Jesus
Jul 14, 2011
3,661
1,117
Visit site
✟146,199.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
...In their naivete they had no concept of good and evil...

I just want to tell, they did have some concept, because:

When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit of it, and ate; and she gave some to her husband with her, and he ate.
Gen. 3:6

The tree was called the tree of good and evil knowledge, but it is possible that it was just Satan’s lie that it gives some knowledge. Obviously, as a result, they also got knowledge, but perhaps the tree was only what God told about it.
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
The tree was called the tree of good and evil knowledge, but it is possible that it was just Satan’s lie that it gives some knowledge. Obviously, as a result, they also got knowledge, but perhaps the tree was only what God told about it.
They EXPERIENCED SIN, REBELLION, and SHAME.
THus
"Experiential KNOWLEDGE" of wickedness/ sin/ disobedience,
which is not something to seek nor to desire nor to hope for.
 
Upvote 0

Palmfever

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 5, 2019
647
349
Hawaii
✟146,121.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I just want to tell, they did have some concept, because:

When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit of it, and ate; and she gave some to her husband with her, and he ate.
Gen. 3:6

The tree was called the tree of good and evil knowledge, but it is possible that it was just Satan’s lie that it gives some knowledge. Obviously, as a result, they also got knowledge, but perhaps the tree was only what God told about it.
Nah, God referred to it this way: Gen, 2:16 "And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die".
And contrary to another assertion the following scripture is God speaking and not some out of context quote. Much biblical scripture is written by inspired men about God. This is God speaking and He is never isolated, nor out of context.
Genesis, 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
It seems pretty clear. He is become.

Merriam Webster, Become:
1. to come into existence

to come to be
2. to undergo change or development

Adam came to know good and evil. When they ate the fruit. While It is true they were commanded not to eat, and I know it is hard to understand, God's Word is his word and I feel no compulsion to say it does not say what it clearly does.
Can't say I completely grasp the concept, but there it is.

Satan used, as he still does, the truth sprinkled with a lie.
Gen, 3:5 for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Genesis, 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
God Bless
 
Upvote 0

Palmfever

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 5, 2019
647
349
Hawaii
✟146,121.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I'm not sure whether this post to which I now reply is intended to affirm what I previously posted or dissent, but I've already addressed this matter. Please go back and re-read what I posted. Note the distinction between knowledge by contrast or comparison and knowledge by experience. Note also that what you've done is proof-text a single verse. Removing Genesis 3:22 from its context - the context of a now sinful world instead of the previously sinless world - will always lead to failed understanding. Adam (and Eve) now knew evil experientially, not merely by contrast. Having learned of evil experientially he was no lonager able to correctly know by way of contrast as he had originally been made to do. God, of course, knows both good and evil in all ways; in an already sinful world He creates evil (Isa. 45:7).
Read it...
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Saint Steven

You can call me Steve
Supporter
Jul 2, 2018
18,580
11,385
Minneapolis, MN
✟930,116.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I'm in agreement with the Greek Orthodox Church as to what became of Adam & Eve during Christ's victory over death. ...
Yes. Isn't the story of that pictorial based on the early church writing of the Gospel of Nicodemus (the harrowing of hell) in which Christ when he went to the realm of the dead between his crucifixion and resurrection searched until he found Adam and Eve and took them by the hand and led them out with all (or most) following in his train?
 
Upvote 0