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We're actually all in hell right now, and this is a delusion.

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Michael Collum, Jul 30, 2021.

  1. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    The scriptures say quite often that "I come quickly" and it is "at hand" the sense of imminent return shared among those who witnessed the second coming seems apparent from the new testament writings.

    This implies that the judgment already came and we have been judged.

    Currently this giant mass of sin that infected the first creation is being purified in the lake of fire, and our attachment to it creates a matrix of shared delusion to everyone also connected.

    However, this will not last forever. Eventually all the sin will be purified, and we will join the rest of creation in the new heaven and the new earth.

    of course, the other judgment models follow also i.e. Eternal Torment means Sin is eternal like God, and this will last forever. And Annihilationism means that when sin is erased, so are we.

    so choose you own narrative, but we're totally in hell right now - it's the only reasonable explanation for the long period of wait.
     
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  2. Tone

    Tone "Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great." Supporter

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    Very interesting concept. I've actually experienced this for many years.

    The only thing is...who says it's been a long period if it's only a delusion!
     
  3. Tone

    Tone "Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great." Supporter

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    Job 13
    "However, two things do not turn away from me, and then I shall not turn aside from before you. Do not remove your hand from me, and do not let your awesomeness terrify me. Call me and I shall answer, or I shall speak and bring me an answer."

    Hebrews 6
    "Because of this, let us leave the beginning of the message of The Messiah, and let us go on to perfection; or are you laying again another foundation for conversion from dead works and for faith in God, For the teaching of baptism, the laying on of hands, for the resurrection from among the dead, and for eternal judgment? We shall do this if THE LORD JEHOVAH permits."
     
  4. Petros2015

    Petros2015 Well-Known Member

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    This explains both IRS forms and HOAs...
    Hmm...
     
  5. Eftsoon

    Eftsoon Well-Known Member

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    You're coming at this from the universalist angle I presume? No comment for or against on that score, but I would just caution that this is extremely speculative stuff. I don't believe that your reasoning is strong enough to post this as a reasonable certainty at all.
     
  6. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    Indeed, even the perception of the flow of time before we were born, may also be illusionary.
     
  7. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    It would be relatively silly to be certain about uncertainty.
     
  8. ChetSinger

    ChetSinger Well-Known Member

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    Yikes, I hope not.

    There is actually, in the Epistle of Barnabas, an early Christian viewpoint that human history would last six thousand years and then come to an end. And counting from creation, that end would be near our own time. Here is the text:

    Barnabas 15:4
    Give heed, children, what this meaneth; He ended in six days. He
    meaneth this, that in six thousand years the Lord shall bring all
    things to an end; for the day with Him signifyeth a thousand years;
    and this He himself beareth me witness, saying; Behold, the day of
    the Lord shall be as a thousand years.
    Therefore, children, in six
    days, that is in six thousand years, everything shall come to an end.​


    This epistle isn't scripture, of course. But it's evidence that not all the early believers agreed that the end would come soon. The author of this letter wrote that it was still about 2,000 years away.
     
  9. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    I'd venture he was comparing the events of revelation with the events of genesis and coming to a conclusion that way. The beasts were born on the sixth day along with man - the man of perdition is part of the prophecies, so it would paint a vivid picture.

    Since the signs of the prophetic age leading up to Jesus aligned with the third day, it was assumed they were in the fourth day since the apostles were giving the heavenly wisdom and declaring signs to watch for along with the sun of righteousness who had recently "risen."

    If the conclusion of Barnabas was based on scripture, that's how I imagined he came to his conclusion.
     
  10. MMXX

    MMXX Well-Known Member

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    Back when I lived in Nevada already being in the lake of fire seemed plausible.

    So what happens after we die in this scenario where we already died?
     
  11. Tone

    Tone "Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great." Supporter

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    Yeah, so we could actually be in the 1st century.
     
  12. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    Since you're still attached to sin, something similar to reincarnation until you're purified. In the case of eternal torment, that will never happen. In the case of annihilation, all souls in this predicament will be erased once the sin is gone. In the case of ultimate reconciliation those who are purified, are given new lives under the administration of God and those who were given to rule the "nations" with a scepter of iron.
     
  13. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    Well, time ended with the judgment, even the heavens were melted with the fervent heat. So there'd be no way to keep time under the solar clock. However, it is plausible that under such a scenario, time as recorded in the bible ended in the 1st or early second century.
     
  14. MMXX

    MMXX Well-Known Member

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    I didn't quite see where you were going with this at first.
     
  15. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    Um ok? I can think of lots of other options though.
     
  16. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    So can I, this was a recurring thought though ... so I posted it.
     
  17. Tone

    Tone "Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great." Supporter

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    So, you really believe you/we are in hell?
     
  18. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    I think enough of me deems it a possibility for it to be a recurring thought. However, I have derived many viewpoints from studying the scriptures, many that run in parallel. This is one of the parallels.
     
  19. bèlla

    bèlla ❤️ Supporter

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    I don’t think we’re in hell but I’ve wondered more than once if I swallowed the wrong pill!

    ~bella
     
  20. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    That's a good one, me too.
     
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