Well... looks like we got our answer about whether to stay or go....

[OnederWoman]

My husband spoke to one of the churches Pastors today. They had a lengthy discussion where they were each able to share their beliefs. And even though the Pastor was in agreement with my husbands views and saw that he was pretty solid theologically (and even though they were very happy with the clowning he'd done for childrens church last week and had been totally excited about having him clown on a monthly basis and were excited about us going and doing clown ministry on a summer mission trip) the Pastor said that they couldn't look past the smoking issue and suggested we look for another church. That's the info on it I have so far. My husband had to get back to work and wasn't able to give me the rest of the details. We took yesterday off to catch up on sleep and to think and pray about what to do next. I'm not sure what we're going to do yet... but I think we're considering looking at some other Baptist churches (we do know that not all Baptist churches are like this, legalist and all), my husband likes the Awanas program and the only churches here offering that are Baptist. We may also try one more Assemblies of God. We've pretty much exhausted the non-denoms here... the ones we haven't been too either had websites where they stated their beliefs and we knew that wasn't where we'd want to go and the ones that I did drive by's on and knew they were way smaller than what we are wanting (we want a church big enough that it will have a strong childrens and youth program, but not so big that we get lost). I wish there was a Sovereign Grace (PDI) church here... our beliefs match theirs almost perfectly, acceptions being too minor to worry about. I got this book a while back "the 60-second Guide to Denominations"... it's pretty helpful when looking at what a denomination believes as far as the basics are concerned.... the Sovereign Grace church was actually recommended to me here, and after reading about them in the book I could see we'd be a fit there for sure... then I checked their website and found out there are no SG churches anywhere near us Oh well... so the search continues.

 

[BarbB]

This is sad - on both counts. That the church won't allow a smoker to attend and that your husband is in bondage to cigarettes! Praying!

 

[Col]

That is pathetic OnederWoman. I guess their idea of getting to heaven is simply to "look the part" not "be the part". God must be shaking His head in disbelief. Sounds like you should shake the dust of your sandals and find a church based on Christ. This Church should be ashamed of themselves. Imagine being so fake and legalistic to be unable to recognise someone with gifts. I think your time and ministry would be much better served in an honest Christian environment, not one that appears to be trying to live in a "Christian Bubble".

Bless Ya
Col <><

 

[ChrisB]

the Pastor said that they couldn't look past the smoking issue and suggested we look for another church.

Congratulations - I would deem it an honour to be asked to leave such a church!

These people are adding to the gospel in a way they ought to be ashamed of, didn't our Lord say "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" Of course smoking is unhealthy and I suppose they would quote 1 Corinthians 6:19 at you but I wonder how many of the elders are overweight, take too little exercise or indulge in some other unhealthy activity. In any case smoking isn't a sin but even if it were Jesus said "I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

I wonder how this pastor will explain his actions to Jesus.

 

[Wilfred of Ivanhoe]

I also raise my concerns about a pastor suggesting a strong believer who is struggling in sin (smoking) to find another church. You definately do not want to be there.

I've attended a Sovereign Grace weekend conference before. I've also attended a Primative Baptist church off and on for several months. Both are a bit too hyper-calvanistic for what I see the Bible to teach. I'd still keep looking for a good Presbyterian church. Also, how far are you willing to go to find a good church? I personally drive 30 minutes to my church and one of the strongest families at my church was at one time forced to drive 1 hour to reach theirs.

 

[Kas]

WHAT!!!! This is crazy talk! Smoking is a sin like materialism, but since one does not throw out his congregation for the latter, why throw out an individual for the former!How sad, that confine our moral principles to those that socially stand out!

I think that this is an injustice!

Peace,
Kas.

 

[Tappanga]

This is so sad. As a Baptist, please let me apologize for the treatment you received. We can be a hypocritcal bunch. I've often wondered what my fellow church members would say if they knew I was a closet smoker. Guess now I do. I'll be praying for you, and hope you find a more accepting church soon.

 

[eldermike]

You took the right steps. I agree with your decision to leave. I don't think the leadership handled the situation very well and that is sad. Winning issues of bondage is on God's timing, not ours. He will give your Husband a victory over smoking, I am an example of that myself.

Here is how I suggest you go. Go, and also seek victory of the issue itself. In other words; leave and quit smoking the same day. Ask God to show you a new fellowship but don't take the issue with you. God works in ways we don't understand. He led you to a church that needed you and also showed your hsband something He needs to deal with. Don't see just the bad leadership, look for God's hand, no matter how badly the message was delivered.

God speed on finding a new church.

Eldermike

 

[seeking.IAM]

Any church that kicks out all the sinners that worship there, it's gonna be pretty empty by Easter morning. If smoking is a sin, what makes it worse than any of the other congregants' sins or those of the Pastor, for that matter?

I had a friend whose Dad was a Pastor. My friend was embarassed when his father/pastor got his name published in our local paper after being arrested for shoplifting. Seems the Rev. was in line to check out at the grocery store when he saw a parishoner coming toward him to say hello. The Rev. scooped up the cigarettes he was buying and slipped them into his coat to avoid embarssement with his parishoner. After the parishoner left, the Rev. proceeded to check out and forgot about his cigarettes--right up until leaving the store when he was arrested. This has nothing to do with the thread but I always enjoy the story.

seeking.IAM
<><

 

[InnerPhyre]

Thrown out of a church for being a sinner! That's awful! I'm sure that's EXACTLY what Jesus would do......

 

[BarbB]

Aren't we IN church because we are sinners?

 

[JOYfulbeliever]

I'm concerned that the church just "kicks out" the "sinner" instead of trying to help "overcome" the sin. We are all sinners, and like someone earlier said, if we remove the sinners from church, the church would be empty. When we know our brother or sister is struggling in a particular area or with a particular sin, that is when the church needs to rally behind them and help and encourage them, not push them out on the streets.

I'm glad to hear that you guys are grounded enough in your faith not to let this push you away completely. I'm also happy to hear that you know that not all churches are this way. It disgusts me that churches are doing this kind of thing. What kind of ministry is that? And what kind of message is that sending - if you're struggling with a sin, don't come here. We want no part of it? Ugh.

Good luck with finding a new church. I church hopped for a year before I found my "home". I visited it so many times, and one day, God just made it perfectly clear...this is where you are supposed to be. I know He will do the same with you. I'll be praying for you.

 

[mshupe1959]

I'm sorry to hear that Onederwoman.

I noticed that you wanted to stay away from small churches, though. Please don't just count them out right away. There are some awesome ones out there and look for where God wants you. There is a specific place He desiers for you to be. Be led by Him and He will lead you in the right direction. Something to keep in mind is what He wants isn't necessarily what we want all the time.

God bless you
Mike

 

[La Bonita Zorilla]

Aren't we IN church because we are sinners?

Exactly. Like the radio talkmeisters ragging on Clinton for going to church during the Starr debacle. As he said, "Where else should a sinner be?" The secular people have no understanding of the Baptist tradition he grew up in nor the Methodist tradition his wife grew up in.

When this stuff comes up (smoking as a "moral" issue) I'm always quick to cite ex-Senator Jesse Helms, a very conservative moralist on occasion who carried water for tobacco farmers for years and once said "there's no scientific evidence of tobacco causing any risks to health."