Well, duh...

[Hank77]

Your dodge is to keep changing the definition of "macroevolution." "Microevolution" is evolution within a species. "Macroevolution is evolution that produces new taxa. As you probably know, most creationist organizations admit that new species, genera, and families evolve from existing ones. Sometimes, they go farther. Would you like me to show you?

Yes, please do.

 

[JIMINZ]

1) Disobedience to God.
2) He let himself be persuaded to favor his own desires and to lose trust in God. Hence the story.
3) He hid himself from God, thinking that God would be angry and vengeful.

I hear what your saying but, can you actually prove any of what you have said, with Scripture?

 

[JIMINZ]

Adam mutated and received a sin gene.

What is that supposed to mean, how was that Adams sin?
Scripture?

 

[The Barbarian]

I hear what your saying but, can you actually prove any of what you have said, with Scripture?

Read Genesis 2. Precisely what it says.

 

[The Barbarian]

Yes, please do.

A passage in Deuteronomy 14 lists some of these biblical kinds and gives us some guidance in our understanding of the various kinds. Since various species can interbreed, we can conclude that those species are from the same created kind. The division is probably somewhere around the family level in our current classification systems. Chapter 2 of Evolution Exposed: Biology explains this idea in more detail.


So, within the created kinds, we see changes in characteristics over time—or “descent with modification.” That is a commonality in the biblical and evolutionary understanding of life on earth. The disagreement comes in the amount and direction of that change.


Let’s think about the deer kind for a moment. The deer kind (family Cervidae) includes moose, elk, whitetail deer, mule deer, muntjac, fallow deer, reindeer, and many other species. This includes a wide range of sizes, colors, and antler structures.
Not So Common Descent

So evolution is accepted by AIG, even though they don't want to call it that. Here's what's holding them back from the whole truth:

So, the characteristics we see in deer around the world today were present in the genetic makeup of the deer kind aboard the Ark. Thinking about antlers as a trait, moose have palmate antlers, mule deer have tined antlers, and caribou have a mix of both. From this we can reason that the original deer kind had a mix of these features, and, over time, some species lost the genetic information to make the palmate antlers (elk and mule deer) and some species have become primarily palmate (moose). This is the kind of change that is consistent with what we find in Scripture and the kind of change I was referring to in the book.
Not So Common Descent

AIG continues to deny the observed fact that information increases in a population with every new mutation, and they assume that at one time, there was a representative of the "deer kind" with every allele now in existence in any member of the Cervidae (and their related familes). Which is just as impossible as their belief that all the alleles in humans today existed in Adam and Eve.

Lacking any understanding of genetics, they assume such a thing would be possible. In fact, Adam and Eve together, could have had no more than for alleles for each gene locus. Today many of them have hundreds of alleles. All the reset evolved.

 

[-57]

What is that supposed to mean, how was that Adams sin?
Scripture?

Doesn't evolutionism require mutations?

 

[-57]

Read Genesis 2. Precisely what it says.

Gen 2 says the woman was created from the mans rib...Is that how evolution works?

 

[JIMINZ]

396 God created man in his image and established him in his friendship. A spiritual creature, man can live this friendship only in free submission to God. The prohibition against eating "of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" spells this out: "for in the day that you eat of it, you shall die."276 The "tree of the knowledge of good and evil"277 symbolically evokes the insurmountable limits that man, being a creature, must freely recognize and respect with trust. Man is dependent on his Creator, and subject to the laws of creation and to the moral norms that govern the use of freedom.

These statements come about only with the knowledge of Adam-s (Mankind-s) Nature and his position in relation to God, after the fall.

 

[JIMINZ]

Doesn't evolutionism require mutations?

Evolution does but Creation does not.

What are you saying was the cause of Adams Mutation?

 

[JIMINZ]

The prohibition against eating "of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" spells this out: "for in the day that you eat of it, you shall die."276 The "tree of the knowledge of good and evil"277 symbolically evokes the insurmountable limits that man, being a creature, must freely recognize and respect with trust.

Sounds like your defining Adam-s position in relation to God, based upon the English Definition of the words (Prohibition - Commanded.)

When God Created Adam did He Create a lesser being in His Image or, was Adam Created equal to God in that he (Adam) was Created in the Image of God?

Could not God have only been disseminating information about the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil to Adam and not necessarily Commanding, Prohibiting Him.

Like I said, your understanding of Adam and his Nature are only acquired after the Fall.

 

[JIMINZ]

A passage in Deuteronomy 14 lists some of these biblical kinds and gives us some guidance in our understanding of the various kinds. Since various species can interbreed, we can conclude that those species are from the same created kind. The division is probably somewhere around the family level in our current classification systems. Chapter 2 of Evolution Exposed: Biology explains this idea in more detail.


So, within the created kinds, we see changes in characteristics over time—or “descent with modification.” That is a commonality in the biblical and evolutionary understanding of life on earth. The disagreement comes in the amount and direction of that change.


Let’s think about the deer kind for a moment. The deer kind (family Cervidae) includes moose, elk, whitetail deer, mule deer, muntjac, fallow deer, reindeer, and many other species. This includes a wide range of sizes, colors, and antler structures.
Not So Common Descent

So evolution is accepted by AIG, even though they don't want to call it that. Here's what's holding them back from the whole truth:

So, the characteristics we see in deer around the world today were present in the genetic makeup of the deer kind aboard the Ark. Thinking about antlers as a trait, moose have palmate antlers, mule deer have tined antlers, and caribou have a mix of both. From this we can reason that the original deer kind had a mix of these features, and, over time, some species lost the genetic information to make the palmate antlers (elk and mule deer) and some species have become primarily palmate (moose). This is the kind of change that is consistent with what we find in Scripture and the kind of change I was referring to in the book.
Not So Common Descent

AIG continues to deny the observed fact that information increases in a population with every new mutation, and they assume that at one time, there was a representative of the "deer kind" with every allele now in existence in any member of the Cervidae (and their related familes). Which is just as impossible as their belief that all the alleles in humans today existed in Adam and Eve.

Lacking any understanding of genetics, they assume such a thing would be possible. In fact, Adam and Eve together, could have had no more than for alleles for each gene locus. Today many of them have hundreds of alleles. All the reset evolved.

Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
Gen 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

Gen.2:19
1) Every beast of the field.
2) Every fowl.
3) Adam called Every living creature.

Gen.2:20
1) Adam gave names to all cattle.
2) To the fowl of the air.
3) To every beast of the field.

Doesn't appear as though there is much room for any other processes or mutations to take place.

We got what we have.

 

[-57]

Evolution does but Creation does not.

What are you saying was the cause of Adams Mutation?

Let me start by saying mutations was not in the process of forming Adam.

After the fall mutations began to corrupt the human DNA.

 

[The Barbarian]

Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air;

You'll admit that much. Which is good. The problem is that you don't approve of the way He did it.

 

[The Barbarian]

Let me start by saying mutations was not in the process of forming Adam.

After the fall mutations began to corrupt the human DNA.

There are many, many favorable mutations. That additional information in the human genome can't be "corruption."

 

[The Barbarian]

Sounds like your defining Adam-s position in relation to God, based upon the English Definition of the words (Prohibition - Commanded.)

That's what God said, anyway.

When God Created Adam did He Create a lesser being in His Image or, was Adam Created equal to God in that he (Adam) was Created in the Image of God?

Neither. You're assuming that Adam was like God, but just less. You've demoted God to a mere being, rather than the omnipotent Creator of the universe.

Could not God have only been disseminating information about the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil to Adam and not necessarily Commanding, Prohibiting Him.

Not according to Genesis.

 

[The Barbarian]

Gen 2 says the woman was created from the mans rib...

As you learned, the text tells us that it's a figurative description of the relationship of man and woman. If this literally happened, Eve would have been genetically a man. But the Bible isn't a science text; it's about God and man and our relationship.

The way living things were created was by natural means, as God tells us in Genesis.

Is that how evolution works?

It's a natural process, yes. God does most things that way in this world.

 

[-57]

There are many, many favorable mutations. That additional information in the human genome can't be "corruption."

Information doesn't increase by a method containing random mutations. Then again you already knew that.

 

[-57]

As you learned, the text tells us that it's a figurative description of the relationship of man and woman. If this literally happened, Eve would have been genetically a man. But the Bible isn't a science text; it's about God and man and our relationship.

The way living things were created was by natural means, as God tells us in Genesis.



It's a natural process, yes. God does most things that way in this world.

Why do you keep spinning your wheels in the mud?

 

[The Barbarian]

Information doesn't increase by a method containing random mutations.

Well, let's run through the math for you, again...

The formula for genetic information is:

Where H is the information, and p(x) is the frequency of a given allele in the population genome.

So let's take a simple case that's easy to follow. Suppose a given population has two alleles for a specific gene, each with a frequency of 0.5. (I can make it more complex for you, if you like). Plugging into the Shannon formula, that would be the negative value of 0.5 times the log of 0.5, all multiplied by 2.

Or about...
0.30.

Now suppose a random mutation produces a third allele. And (to make the calculation simpler for you) suppose eventually all three alleles have a frequency of about 0.333..

Now, the information is about...
0.48.

An increase in information. But then you already knew that. I've shown you this before.

 

[The Barbarian]

Why do you keep spinning your wheels in the mud?

God says the Earth brought forth living things. Apparently, He thought it was a good idea. I guess He never thought to ask you for your opinion.