Is it okay to Weaponize the Gospel?

  • Yes

    Votes: 2 18.2%
  • No

    Votes: 7 63.6%
  • Sometimes

    Votes: 2 18.2%

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PeaceByJesus

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Zero Duplicity here...

Jesus came for the sick... not the well... Jesus died for us, while we were yet sinners...
I admit that apart from Christ’s gift of Slavic Covering... I fail.
I think it’s wrong to lie to people and project that Christians don’t fail... and that being a Christian is about your own flesh... when James makes it clear... along with others... that’s it’s about Loving Others as they are and ensuring they have Love, and support...
No preference!

You are ranking sin and crying that Jesus didn’t save people (While they were yet sinners).
Meaning besides condemning those who condemn, which is duplicity, are you now resorting to blatant false hood! Where have I ever expressed that Jesus didn’t save people while they were yet sinners? Instead I clearly stated that not only are we all sinners but included many Scripture texts showing that Christians are, but which does not necessarily mean they cannot condemn the sins of others, as commanded! Do you dare even read such? Or shall I provide them again and more for all to see how the great reprover of being reproved has been reproved again? This thread is a record of your duplicity and false teaching.
Duplicity?
How about the fact that you have Sin (Or you make Him a liar)... and you ask for sinlessness from others...? Now that’s a fat bowel of Duplicity Soup!
Rather, that is LYING, since I never required sinlessness from others, which is actually your fallacious premise, which is that unless you are sinless/perfect then you cannot sit in judgment/condemn/reprove others - unless it is you doing so - which false premise I corrected multiple times, from Scripture, only to have you resort to a fat bowl of LYING contrary to what I said! Such as,
Grip Docility said:

1 John 1:8 and James 2:10 are all I need to see through your demand that carnal perfection is a requirement.
No, carnal perfection is not a requirement, but saving faith is, and which again is that which characteristically follows the Lord (John 10:27,28; 1 John 3:3-10; Romans 6:20-22; Hebrews 6:9) including repentance when convicted of disobedience. (2 Corinthians 7:9-11; cf. James 4:17) - Weaponized Gospel

"...the latter are exhorted to rebuke error and works of darkness, and can do so while yet being less than perfect, unless they are impenitently practicing what they reprove."
Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. (Ephesians 5:10-11)
For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person. (1 Corinthians 5:12-13)
One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; (Titus 1:12-13)
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. (2 Timothy 4:2)
I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: (Revelation 2:2)
A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself. (Titus 3:10-11)
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. (Romans 16:17)

4:38 PM
In the light of your posts I can see why some have surmised there are posters here whose main function is to act as provocateurs in order to get page counts up. At least you served to do that.

Thus those who impenitently live contrary to this evidence they are not believers. (2 Corinthians 12:29; 13:5)​
Thus those who impenitently live contrary to this evidence they are not believers. (2 Corinthians 12:29; 13:5)

We are all “hypocrites” in one way or another... but you’ve gone full blown self righteous!
Which falsity has already been refuted, showing that Christians are called sinners yet are also called to judge impenitent sinners, condemn heretics (like you), and can do so while yet being less than perfect, unless they are impenitently practicing what they reprove.

And that rather than saying everyone is guilty of breaking every one of the over 600 laws in the OT, what James is saying is that transgression in one point renders one a law breaker just like all the rest. Thus God judge persons based only on what each did, as distinguished from what they did not actually do, and which distinction James also makes, but that one is still law breaker just as all are. (James 2:10,11)

Thus we cannot condemn others simply being sinners, but are to call ourselves as well as others to repentance, and censor, condemn, reprove and those who will not, from clearly serious false teaching to willful immortality.
  • A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; (Titus 3:10)
  • Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. (Romans 16:17)
  • Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. (2 Thessalonians 3:6)
  • If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: (2 John 10)
  • For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person. (1 Corinthians 5:12-13)
  • This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; (Titus 1:13)
  • Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. (2 Timothy 4:2)
  • And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. (Ephesians 5:11)
 
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FireDragon76

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Actually the reason people choose to focus on gay people, or actually what they promote, is because of they - their activists - are the ones who make it an issue, unlike in the past, and thus it attracts lightening.

This is just the conservative Christian spin on the issue.

Perhaps you are not old enough or you are completely ignorant of the pre-Stonewall world for gay people, but society went out of their way to dehumanize and punish gay people for even the most petty infractions of heteronormativity.

Some gay people finally said "we don't have to put up with this any more" and they worked to change things. That doesn't make them aggressors in doing so, anymore than Martin Luther King was an aggressor for demanding equal rights for black people.
 
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PeaceByJesus

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Geocentrism was the traditional belief among Protestants and Catholics until astronomical observations became commonplace and the mountain of evidence overwhelming. And they based their belief on their interpretation of the Scriptures.
Actually many traditional RCs yet contend for Geocentrism, while Aristotle had seemingly refuted heliocentricity, and up to Galileo’s time, most major thinkers had subscribed to a geocentric view.

However, this issue as regards moral law is comparing apples and oranges. The statements relative this are not those of binding basic universally applicable moral laws such as we have in Leviticus 18, and those cited in favor of Geocentrism are based on the language of appearances - “phenomenological” language - (ever see a sun rise?) or language and which simply does not actually teach Geocentrism.

In contrast, it is clear that God made man and women distinctively different yet uniquely compatible and complementary, and only joined them together in marriage - as the Lord Jesus Himself specified (Mt. 19:4-6) - and only condemned homosexual relations wherever they are manifestly dealt with. http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/Homosex_versus_the_Bible.html

And that all sexual relations apart from marriage is fornication, which forms are all condemned and never sanctioned, nor is motive ever a factor as regards illicit partners.
 
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PeaceByJesus

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This is just the conservative Christian spin on the issue.

Perhaps you are not old enough or you are completely ignorant of the pre-Stonewall world for gay people, but society went out of their way to dehumanize and punish gay people for even the most petty infractions of heteronormativity.
When you affirm what is contrary to God and design and is more like an animal then do not complain when you feel dehumanized. Just on physical effects alone, homonormativity versus "heteronormativity has been primarily responsible for the deaths of over 600,000 Americans since the 80's. Imagine how dehumanized Christians would feel if the consensual practice of taking the Lord's supper resulted stats like the following:

As of 2014, most HIV transmission in the United States occurred among men who had sex with men, with gay and bisexual men accounting for 83% (29,418) of the estimated new HIV diagnoses among all males aged 13 and older and 67% of the total estimated new diagnoses in the United States. Gay and bisexual men aged 13 to 24 accounted for an estimated 92% of new HIV diagnoses among all men in their age group and 27% of new diagnoses among all gay and bisexual men. A 2016 analysis estimated that there are nearly 4.5 million gay and bisexual men in the United States and that 15% are living with HIV infection (11% diagnosed).[50] About 15% of gay and bisexual men have HIV while 28 percent of transgender women test positive.[50][51]-https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pdf/group/msm/cdc-hiv-msm.pdf

Gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men made up an estimated 2% of the population but 55% of people living with HIV in the United States in 2013. If current diagnosis rates continue, 1 in 6 gay and bisexual men will be diagnosed with HIV in their lifetime - Gay and Bisexual Men | HIV by Group | HIV/AIDS | CDC

"Transgender women are 49 times more likely to have HIV than other adults of reproductive age." "STIs and their complications amount to about $16 billion annually in direct medical costs. HIV imposes the largest financial burden, costing $12.6 billion in direct medical costs, followed by HPV at $1.7 billion, chlamydia at $156.7 million, gonorrhea at $162.1 million, and syphilis at $39.9 million." - Ensuring Access to Sexually Transmitted Infection Care for All - Center for American Progress

Some gay people finally said "we don't have to put up with this any more" and they worked to change things. That doesn't make them aggressors in doing so, anymore than Martin Luther King was an aggressor for demanding equal rights for black people.
And everyone in Hell to Hitler to Communists can justify their rebellion based upon the principal that sometimes rebellion can be warranted, but the homosexual movement was from the chief rebel and murderer, as part of his quest to create a alternative society in which he is the implicit head, with perverted counterfeits of what God ordained.

Now just when are you and your comrade going to answer the simple questions asked of both of you?​
 
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redleghunter

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I tell you what is a sin, it's when people like Shane Boyle can't afford insulin, so they have to start a crowdfunding campaign and they die from diabetic shock because they are $50 dollars short. That is a sin.
That sure is a sin. Why did they end up $50 short? No one in Shane's church could cough up the additional money? That's a serious question.
 
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PeaceByJesus

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Abomination is used for shrimp and pig too.

Do you eat either?

If you don’t... well... that may be a clue to me.

I’m not minimizing sin but maximizing it!
Which equation of ceremonial law and basic transcendent universal moral laws, which Scripture distinguishes, is another example of your ignorance of Scripture. Once again, here is some study that would help you if you actually wanted to be corrected.
I’ll say that you, I and PBJ are as equally sinful in God’s Eyes as a Practicing Homosexual...
Does that offend you?
The only thing that offends me as a sinner who deserved eternity in the lake of fire (though I expect you not believe in such) is your continued ignorant perversion of Scripture, after being shown that while all are sinners, there is different degrees of sinfulness and guilt, and thus punishment. Perverting Scripture such as denying homosexual relations are unconditional sinful - which is one of the questions you evade answering - to me is more offensive than the practice itself.
 
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PeaceByJesus

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Why not just answer the questions asked twice before of your comrade, "So sexual relations outside marriage is only sin for the Christian if in relation to idolatry, or otherwise apart from a loving monogamous relationship, but is not necessarily sin for the Christian apart from marriage? Yes or no?"

And in that context, are homosexual relation ever conditionally sanctioned? Yes or no? What's to hide?

There are gay folks at our congregation and they are not excluded. Their sex life is their private business, it's between them and God.
Just what is it with you and Grip Docility that you both avoid giving a straight answer to simply questions? Again, What's to hide?

I did not ask you how your church treated you or other members.
 
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PeaceByJesus

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Nope...
People that are Athiests and skinheads ... and long before such... along with Islam... and so forth have made the tiny population suffer emotional and physical pain for many years.
Christians have failed to extend grace to gays for over a millennium!
Some do! Many Don’t!
You don’t like that you are as filthy as all of humanity if not for HIS free GIFT... thus you erase the FREE GIFT PART!
Lies and shenanigans from you!
So being utterly reproved, you must continue to resort to more lies! Just where did I ever teach I am less than a filthy sinner as all are in need of the free gift of salvation by grace??? Instead that is just what I affirm. And on my extensive refutation of pro-homosex polemics which I linked for you I prefaced it by saying, 'Although those who manifestly manipulate the Bible move me to contend for the faith, I have compassion on those who are deceived into supposing that the Bible allows liberty for a sin, of which there are many, in heart and in flesh, as I myself have been sadly fooled by the "deceitfulness of sin", (Heb. 3:13) even as a Christian. May this web page work salvation and sanctification, and may I grow in the latter, to the glory of God. Amen

You lying will only make judgment worse.
 
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PeaceByJesus

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FD and I made it clear your reference here is false.

You are employing a debate tactic where you imply something was said... that the people you are debating with didn’t say!

@FireDragon76 even confirmed that Sin is Sin... Gay and Straight deviation... and all other of the 613 that are anchored in the Decalogue ... per Deuteronomy 31:26.

We are saying Grace... Not “Saccrifice” or (Condemnation)...

You are misrepresenting matters to cover your self righteousness and focus on Homosexuality as the “Unforgivable Sin”.., as if you aren’t guilty and on your knees every day like all others that claim Christ!
Just where does FireDragon76 - whose marital status is that of Legal Union (Other), ever deny that "active sexual relations are not sinning if the relationship is monogamous and loving" which was the charge that this has been argued here on CF?

Both of you indicate you do not see sexual relations outside marriage as necessarily sin for the Christian, and homosexual relations unconditionally illicit, and from what I see, Fire Dragon 76 can only allow "that I were to agree that homosexuality is a sin" as hypothetical and rejects Genesis 19 as condemning homosexual relations since "It's in no way comparable to two men living in a loving, lifelong covenanted relationship," which certainly infers sanction of this.

Liberals like this live in the fantasy that being justified by faith alone is not that of a faith which not only trusts the Lord for salvation, but also effects proper repentance, as Paul preached, whom he marginalizes anyway.

And that "Godly living" is not that of a focus on personal holiness (as well as helping others), which is demeaned as self-styled, self-righteous spirituality.

And that since we all sin, then we cannot judge/reprove others for doing so as Scripture commands, which fails to distinguish btwn impenitent practitioners and penitent, yet characteristically holy Christians, and the reproof of the former by the latter as Scripture commands, as shown.
 
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Phil 1:21

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PB and J...

Master Reprover...

At peace with helping others not feel at peace...
C:\Users\c13760\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.png
I pray God never allows me to be at peace with my sin. I pray that He brings me to the point of tears in grief for my sins as He has in the past. See Matthew 5:4

He said don't do this anymore. Go and sin no more .
I brought up that same verse in another similar discussion. The response I got was that God never actually said for us to not sin. He said for us to stay out of trouble, kind of like saying “Don’t get caught.” It’s kind of difficult to have a discussion about scripture when someone is that far off the mark on something so basic.

I tell you what is a sin, it's when people like Shane Boyle can't afford insulin, so they have to start a crowdfunding campaign and they die from diabetic shock because they are $50 dollars short. That is a sin. And it doesn't seem right to me in a world of Shane Boyle's that people choose to focus on gay people as the sign of what is wrong in the world, of what needs fixing.
Then send him $50 and get on with it. But we should never minimize our own sin by pointing out sin in others that we feel is greater than ours. “I know I stole $20 from my mom’s purse, but at least I didn’t shoot the neighbor’s windows with a BB gun like Tommy did!”

Some gay people finally said "we don't have to put up with this any more" and they worked to change things. That doesn't make them aggressors in doing so, anymore than Martin Luther King was an aggressor for demanding equal rights for black people.
Being black isn’t a sin.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Jesus came for the sick... not the well... Jesus died for us, while we were yet sinners...

That's exactly way we are having this conversation, for the sick, not the well. If I missed your point. what was it?

And did you have a special point in saying Jesus died for us while we were yet sinners? If course he did. Was that to say we can continue in sin? Please explain your point if you really had one.
 
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SolomonVII

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This view comes from non-believers I know of:

The weaponized gospel is gaining political control of the Gov't to ban or suppress activities that are against the christian religion. This approach is seen by them as aggressive forcing of religion upon those who don't agree with it. To me, the biggest problem is that is exactly what radical Muslims do....and they resent it and fight against it. This is because Christians disagree with Islam and think it is wrong for them to try and force Christians to obey Islamic law (which is happening on the other side of earth)
Well what's the difference? Non-Christians don't want "Christian law" forced upon them. Can you blame them? The big question is: should we try and force Jesus on someone? Did he force himself on anyone?
It is been quite a few centuries now that people have been subjected to thumb screws for not believing that Jesus is God.
In Jewish law, which is the closest thing that there is to sharia in Biblical religions, things such as dietary laws are optional for non-believers. The Noahide code which covers things like murder and theft, is not optional.
Catholic legal codes are similar in putting forth the concept of natural law that is based not in faith, but in reason.
Sunday shopping laws are no longer in effect, because the majority of people did not want them. No one took to the streets donned with [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] hats in protest of this change in the law. Locally, some Mormon majority towns, in Southern Alberta for example, restrict all sales of liquor. Then again, local laws in many places in North America enforce separation of garbage into different bins. Nobody is forced to bend their knees to Gaia on account of those laws either.

Yours is a red herring argument. It has no basis in life as it is lived in North American society.
 
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PeaceByJesus

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It is been quite a few centuries now that people have been subjected to thumb screws for not believing that Jesus is God.
In Jewish law, which is the closest thing that there is to sharia in Biblical religions, things such as dietary laws are optional for non-believers. The Noahide code which covers things like murder and theft, is not optional.
Catholic legal codes are similar in putting forth the concept of natural law that is based not in faith, but in reason.
Sunday shopping laws are no longer in effect, because the majority of people did not want them. No one took to the streets donned with [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] hats in protest of this change in the law. Locally, some Mormon majority towns, in Southern Alberta for example, restrict all sales of liquor. Then again, local laws in many places in North America enforce separation of garbage into different bins. Nobody is forced to bend their knees to Gaia on account of those laws either.

Yours is a red herring argument. It has no basis in life as it is lived in North American society.
But if your say something that offends the politically correct gods, esp. not essentially giving affirmation to homosexual relations and "gay marriage," even by affirming traditional sexual morality, then you can easily realize economic sanctions.
 
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FreeinChrist

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MOD HAT

This thread is closed for staff review. This particular forum is NOT one of the forums in which homosexuality may be discussed. Also, there is quite a bit of goading and flaming.

 
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