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Hey, bro' ... you're 10 thousand times right on!God in Christianity by becoming man to save us ...
is already 10 thousand times better than Judaism and Islam.
It is heresy.I couldn't help but notice that a certain poster in the recently closed thread concerning OSAS, made this comment that nobody else seemed to notice:
"Technically, Jesus was not God ... not in the same league as Father God
because He was part human ... Jesus was the God-man.
That's why jesus said His Father was greater than He was!"
What do you think of this quote? Is it accurate? Is it heresy?
He is the visible (4 dimensional) image of the Unseen God (Many dimensions).I couldn't help but notice that a certain poster in the recently closed thread concerning OSAS, made this comment that nobody else seemed to notice:
"Technically, Jesus was not God ... not in the same league as Father God
because He was part human ... Jesus was the God-man.
That's why jesus said His Father was greater than He was!"
What do you think of this quote? Is it accurate? Is it heresy?
I couldn't help but notice that a certain poster in the recently closed thread concerning OSAS, made this comment that nobody else seemed to notice:
"Technically, Jesus was not God ... not in the same league as Father God
because He was part human ... Jesus was the God-man.
That's why jesus said His Father was greater than He was!"
What do you think of this quote? Is it accurate? Is it heresy?
I recommend you look up what Messiah means before you settle on this. Christ indeed means Messiah but messiah is not just some abstract title, it has meaning too, and it's meaning is saviour.Forgive me ... Christ means Messiah
Although the Son is equal to the Father in an ontological sense, the Son and the Spirit are voluntarily subordinate to the Father.I couldn't help but notice that a certain poster in the recently closed thread concerning OSAS, made this comment that nobody else seemed to notice:
"Technically, Jesus was not God ... not in the same league as Father God
because He was part human ... Jesus was the God-man.
That's why jesus said His Father was greater than He was!"
What do you think of this quote? Is it accurate? Is it heresy?
Another question (maybe until everyone understands) ...
How could Someone stumbling around on earth consider Himself to be equal to Father God?
Now, the Word who came down from heaven was an equal Member of the Trinity,
No One residing in a human body can consider Himself as being equal to Father God.
Is putting forward an idea while trying to grasp a very abstract subject, that few if any of us truly understand, heresy?Is it heresy?
The man, Jesus of Nazareth, is no longer the man who walked in Galilee. He is the new creation, the first fruits of the dead, in the new glory of man fully united with God. What that means, I can not tell you. I can only echo Paul in the mystery of what the new creation truly means.That being said, what is the condition of Jesus Christ of Nazareth then and now? Is He?
God
Son of God
Word made Flesh
God in the Flesh
God the Father
The Holy Spirit
Man who is God
God who is Man
Savior
Redeemer
Lamb of God
Mediator
Shepard
Light of the world
Anointed one
Bread of life
The way
Son of David
Son of man
Prince of Peace
Emmanuel
....even more
Take your pick, Jesus Christ of Nazareth rules over Heaven and Earth no matter what anyone thinks.
Blessings
His Student I guess some Christians may be some quicker with their condemnation of heresy than others. At the same time the Church has a responsibility to protect and defend crucial doctrine. The Holy trinity happens to be one of those. If Jesus is not fully God than he is a imposter for only God can forgive sins that’s how serious the matter becomes if we entertain anything less. So the church has to draw the line somewhere or are we to be accepting of every wind of doctrine that walks threw the church door. We do esteem the words of the Apostle Paul very highly. Grace be to you and peace from God the Father and from our Lord Jesus Christ. To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel. Which is not another, but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed . Galatians 1:3-8. As to all heritics being condemned and sent to hell. Well not so for heritic Saul was once one. That is of course until he saw the light which brought him to the full realisation of just who Jesus Christ really is. Than he became the apostle Paul❤️All true.
But when the majority (confessed Trinitarians like in this forum) condemn those who don't believe in the Trinity to Hell for teaching heresy and then can't present the Trinity in a way that avoids those same supposed Hell determining heresies - there's something dreadfully wrong with that picture.
Kate -His Student I guess some Christians may be some quicker with their condemnation of heresy than others. At the same time the Church has a responsibility to protect and defend crucial doctrine. The Holy trinity happens to be one of those. If Jesus is not fully God than he is a imposter for only God can forgive sins that’s how serious the matter becomes if we entertain anything less. So the church has to draw the line somewhere or are we to be accepting of every wind of doctrine that walks threw the church door. We do esteem the words of the Apostle Paul very highly. Grace be to you and peace from God the Father and from our Lord Jesus Christ. To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel. Which is not another, but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed . Galatians 1:3-8. As to all heritics being condemned and sent to hell. Well not so for heritic Saul was once one. That is of course until he saw the light which brought him to the full realisation of just who Jesus Christ really is. Than he became the apostle Paul❤️
I completely agree....the Church has a responsibility to protect and defend crucial doctrine.
I disagree.The Holy trinity happens to be one of those.
I fully agree.If Jesus is not fully God than he is a imposter for only God can forgive sins that’s how serious the matter becomes if we entertain anything less.
IMO, everyone on this sub-forum believes in the Triune Godhead, the Trinity.... saying that Jesus is not God is a huge problem. Indeed it is heresy.
Poor Kate ... I have another deep issue for you to contemplate!If Jesus is not fully God than he is a imposter for only God can forgive sins ...
Yes, but this fact is lost on most everyone here.Although the Son is equal to the Father in an ontological sense,
the Son and the Spirit are voluntarily subordinate to the Father.
IMO, everyone on this sub-forum believes in the Triune Godhead, the Trinity.
Including me!
But, that doesn't mean they understand someone's simple and concise words
which were written in the English language. I shall not elaborate.
But, we're interested in understanding and quoting accurately, aren't we?Well, they were quoted as saying they do not believe Jesus is God in one of their sentences.
My student I shall have to read through your reply a few more times. It’s rather deep as most discussions on the trinity generally are. It’s very late here so the sleep time does come soon. Shall look into what you wrote in more detail and reply later today.. God bless KateKate -
I agree totally.
I sense in your post an attitude that is lacking in some other people here who are defending the Trinity. (I identify as Trinitarian by the way.)
I do have one caveat wherein I believe you make a crucial mistake in your post.
You say the following,
I completely agree.
I disagree.
I fully agree.
You seem to be saying in your post that anyone who questions the Trinity doctrine as presented in the Nicene Creed etc. is rejecting the divinity of Jesus. That simply isn't necessarily true.
While some who question the Trinity do that very thing and some even postulate a multi God existence for the divine - Arienism and Mormonism for instance - not all who question the Trinity doctrine deny the divinity of Jesus.
Some - in fact - actually assign to Him more divinity than do Trinitarians (as it were) - "all of the divine" as opposed to Trinitarians who assign to Him 1/3 of the divine (as it were). Trinitarians postulate that Jesus was only an alleged "God the Son" person as well as fully man. Many non-Trintarians quite properly stress the fact that the scriptures teach that in Jesus "all the fullness of divinity dwells in human form".
Some stress the fact that the scriptures teach that, when God was incarnate in Jesus, God said "You shall be a Son to Me and I shall be a Father to You" and "thou art my Son today I have begotten you". Whereas Trinitarians teach (as in the Nicene Creed) that the Son is "etenally begotten of the Father".
Many who reject or question the Trinity doctrine see the Father/Son relationship as only applicable after the incarnation and not eternally. That's not the same as rejecting or questioning the full divinity or even the full humanity of Jesus.
What we see in the scriptures, according to them, is an incarnate God Who has "emptied Himself" of divine prerogatives and is functioning as a typical human being and has learned of His divinity from the scriptures as taught Him by the Holy Spirit Whom He had without measure - communicating with His Heavenly Father much as we do. Albeit - Jesus was "fully God" whereas we are not and never will be fully God.
Many non Trinity types are merely affirming the much repeated by God fact that God is ONE God. Whereas they feel that Trinitarianism has virtually "redefined" the concept of monotheism so well established by God in the O.T. - the most glaring reason that traditional Christianity is so strongly resisted by both Jews and Muslims ("the people of the Book").
Time would fail us if I listed all of the scriptures where the titles of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are used in an interchangeable way.
I understand that Trinitarians have ways to explain that - but then so do many non-Trinitarians.
This is not to teach or insinuate here that theirs is necessarily the correct view of things or that the Trinity view is necessarily wrong.
I have quickly identified myself with a Trinitarian view as per the Nicene Creed. I say this lest anyone accuse me falsely of violating forum rules and propogating a non-Trinitarian view.
This post is only meant to warn some that one must be very careful not to create straw men and tilt at windmills when discussing the beliefs of others and their reasons for believing as they do.
That is a particularly appropriate warning when speaking to those here and elsewhere who quickly condemn to Hell all those who reject their exact way of seeing things in the scriptures.
I often see this kind of misrepresentation of the beliefs of others in the so called Calvinism debate as well as here.
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