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We need a two-pronged attack to get a sane medical system

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by MorkandMindy, Jul 5, 2019.

  1. dogs4thewin

    dogs4thewin dog lover CF Ambassadors Supporter

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    labor unions I agree with healthcare as a human right no.
     
  2. dogs4thewin

    dogs4thewin dog lover CF Ambassadors Supporter

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    The church as a whole is different than particular churches. A particular church may be more willing/able to provide those things. The church as a whole though we cannot control.
     
  3. carlv_52

    carlv_52 Active Member

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    If I might ask a quick question: if you used Medicaid then you were clearly not wealthy and had a lot of extra expendable cash. Without medicaid would your access to healthcare have been easier or resulted in a better healthcare outcome?

    I don't mean to defend Medicaid, I'm sure it has serious problems. But it points up to a real need in our country for something, anything better than our current inequitable, unaffordable system.
     
  4. dogs4thewin

    dogs4thewin dog lover CF Ambassadors Supporter

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    and how good that healthcare is varies from place to place. In fact, as it relates to government disability ( other than VA) veterans are advised to seek private care because VA records are often not enough.
     
  5. Josheb

    Josheb Christian Supporter

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    Isn't that a topic for another board?

    I won't be collaborating with a digression. I also hope it isn't being insinuated that what I am proposing is Christian Utopianism (because I am not). Such a view would be a straw man.

    We shouldn't be surprised at my questions. The governments God established in the Bible were forms of representative republics (Judges, Moses, the early church). We should be already familiar with these principles so I am surprised no seems to have an answer to the questions I've asked or the points I've made. The people in the Bible changed God's ways. Repeatedly. I urge everyone to study this. God will let His people have their way but there are always adverse consequences for doing so. Read 1 Samuel 8:7-22. Those of you so inclined might find reading Augustine's "City of God," or Francis Schaeffer's trilogy (or both) of benefit in forming a Bible-based worldview that covers all aspects of life (like whether or not we should ask the government to run medical care and insurance outside of its Constitutional restrictions that were put there to prevent such expansions of the federal government).
     
  6. dogs4thewin

    dogs4thewin dog lover CF Ambassadors Supporter

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    I am disabled and was on ( at the time my father's private insurance and Medicaid when I needed braces ( for my feet the private insurance approves it MUCH more quickly than Medicaid did, Moreover, here in my area at least it is tough to find doctors who will even take Medicaid and frankly as someone who has several businessmen in her family AND as someone who took several `business classes in high school I do not blame them and am not even sure I would take it ( especially if I were a doctor just starting out.)
     
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  7. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    Scripturally, the king is going to do what the king is going to do, and Christians are to obey the king up until the king's command conflicts with Christ's.
     
  8. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    Of course it belongs to Caesar. All worldly economics and politics belongs to Caesar. The coin belongs to Caesar and all Caesar does with his coins is Caesar's.


    You're posing a foundationally silly argument.

    There is no scriptural basis for Caesar's decisions.

    That's why we do not worship Caesar.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
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  9. rjs330

    rjs330 Well-Known Member

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    God's bidding is included in scripture. No where is scripture does it state that government is to take care of all our needs.

    If one wants to argue that one simply thinks government should do this or that for us, then that is fine. But we should never attribute that to scripture. It's a PERSONAL belief. Which one is perfectly entitled to have. But we cannot use scripture to back it up as a mandate of God or God's bidding.
     
  10. rjs330

    rjs330 Well-Known Member

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    I really love a lot of these ideas. These are REAL solutions and not just "let's have government pay for healthcare." I don't like them all, but man some of these are good!
     
  11. rjs330

    rjs330 Well-Known Member

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    Please provide why it's governments job? Especially using the Constitution to do so.
     
  12. rjs330

    rjs330 Well-Known Member

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    Single payer is ALWAYS government run healthcare. Because the government takes over what it will cover, what it won't and how much they will pay. Even in those great European countries they do that.
     
  13. rjs330

    rjs330 Well-Known Member

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    Right, but that still.doesnt mean the Bible says we should have government run healthcare.
     
  14. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    That's a debate point you invented which means nothing. Nobody in this thread is arguing that anything the government does is by bible mandate.
     
  15. MorkandMindy

    MorkandMindy Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Except for providing a well-equipped air force.
     
  16. carlv_52

    carlv_52 Active Member

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    By definition it is NOT. Again, you are free to show me your "opinion" on what it is, but that doesn't make it any more correct than saying a bat is a bird.

    I will also note that that is EXACTLY what insurance companies do today and you live under that regime. So I can't really see why you would complain about an alternative that sounds exactly like that. But, again, you wouldn't be talking about single payer, you'd be talking about government run healthcare in which the government staffs and provides the doctors.

    If you want to talk technically then you must use the proper words. If you are unable to understand the topic on a technical level then your opinion carries less weight by merit of a lack of appreciation of the technical details.
     
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  17. Josheb

    Josheb Christian Supporter

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    That isn't correct. In the competitive market a person can purchase the degree of coverage they want or can afford. I government-run healthcare one policy fits all and everyone pays for things they do not need. Because the expenses of medical care occur late in life requiring insurance for all will be necessary to foot the bills of others. Not only is this coercive but if the government handles this purse the same way they have handled social security and Medicare then there won't be any money any way and we'll be in a constant political debate about "healthcare reform" that really means "we need more of your money and you're going to get less in return."
    Yes, it is called graft.

    Id you, carlv_52 are talking about a private-payer single-payer system then that is off-topic from the op. This op specified a public system, not a private one.
     
  18. carlv_52

    carlv_52 Active Member

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    Ummm, you don't get your insurance through your employer, do you? Because yes I can choose to some extent, but not to the degree you seem to think. That isn't really how insurance works anyway. You pay for it precisely because you don't know exactly what you will need. But you will be punished if you choose wrong and need care the company doesn't cover.

    That isn't really how a free market works either.

    Not sure if you are completely unaware how insurance works or what....just a sec. Insurance works because you COUNT on a lot of people paying into the system who will NOT need it. That's how insurance has worked since it was invented hundreds of years ago for shipping agencies.

    The idea of getting more people who don't need it into the system is the ONLY way you can reform an insurance-based system which is what the ACA was trying to do. ACA was NOT a single payer system. The republicans ensured that the public option would NOT be available. The GOP wanted a reform of a market-based, insurance system. You CANNOT force a risk-based business to give up controls on their costs (like pre-existing conditions and lifetime caps) without giving them an offset like forcing more people who will not use the system INTO the risk pool.

    It's statistics. It's math. It's how insurance works.

    I am talking about Single Payer as it has been described now for many, many years.
     
  19. cow451

    cow451 The Most Interesting Poster in the Forum Supporter

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    The Constitution doesn’t mandate a socialized healthcare plan for them for life
     
  20. Josheb

    Josheb Christian Supporter

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    I completely agree, but it is within the Constitutional mandate to legislate such a benefit. The Constitution does not empower the federal government to do so in most other domains.
     
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