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Featured we have no proofs about the existence of god

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by gustavchristianartist, Jan 10, 2018.

  1. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    And in our generation.....
    Pastor Rick Joyner was given a visionary dream in 1995 where he was shown that just as Jonah was cast out of the ship...... so also true Christians would somehow be cast out of two beasts that would rise up...... the first one out of the oceans somehow..... and the second one out of the land........... That is in his book The Call.. if I remember correctly.
     
  2. Apologetic_Warrior

    Apologetic_Warrior Pilgrim

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    While it is true our personal testimonies are more than sufficient proof for us, and I think they are important to witnessing and evangelism, a non-believer will dismiss them as subjective experiences, and may say they get similar feelings when attending a concert or something along those lines.
     
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  3. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    The fascinating case of former Atheist Howard Storm Ph. D. can reach a lot of people. I read his book My Descent Into Death several years ago and it was exceptionally convincing .


    Reverend Howard Storm's Near-Death Experience
     
  4. t-wings

    t-wings Member

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    Yes, you are right. I seen them talk like that plenty of times.
     
  5. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What is odd though, is how can a non-believer say OUR experiences are like ... (enter anything here) when they have never experienced what we experience.

    It is just a circle they run in and around to say there are 'other' experiences similiar, but they have no idea really. They have nothing to compare an experience they have never had to anything they have had.

    It is nonsensical
     
  6. Apologetic_Warrior

    Apologetic_Warrior Pilgrim

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    True but they flip the script, and tell us people from all religions claim to have experiences, how are they to know which is true and which is false? Obviously people have experiences and are often mistaken about them. But I believe you are right on that point, who are they to judge our experiences? With what do they measure experience? We have a history of shared experiences to look to, throughout the entire history of mankind.
     
  7. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    :amen:
     
  8. MournfulWatcher

    MournfulWatcher In the beginning was the Word.

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    We have lots of proof that jesus existed and died on the cross, actually. It's the resurrection that is debated by historians since the entire truth of the bible depends on that.
    We have logical evidence for the existence of God and the resurrection.
    Is your point that as Christians we should be entirely based on unreasonable belief or are you asking whether or not we have evidence for Christianity?
     
  9. Apologetic_Warrior

    Apologetic_Warrior Pilgrim

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    With all due respect, everyone has to start somewhere, everyone has a "worldview" a network of beliefs centered around the "big question" concerning an "ultimate reality", it is always an axiom, that is a postulate, an assumed starting point, which is not "proof", it is faith in every instance. In a very real sense, everyone begins with faith, the problem is, not everyone starts with the true faith, but they DO borrow from the true faith (they are made in the image of God no?), and false faiths are perversions of the one true faith (basically error is a perversion of truth by definition). So it is complete nonsense to speak as though a burden of proof were on Christians from the get go, considering everyone starts on an axiom of faith, while not necessarily the same faith. I should also mention that Christianity is a revealed religion, our faith is tied to REVELATION from God, it is given freely by God.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  10. Greek2Me

    Greek2Me New Member

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    God doesn't provide "proof", He provides "evidence". You see, proof will NEVER be enough to convince the skeptic, they will always demand more. Consider the Pharisees who witnessed the feeding of the multitudes with a few loaves and fishes, but then immediately afterwards asked, "What sign do you give that you are the Christ?" They weren't looking to confirm, but to dismiss the Messiah!

    Evidence, however, is sufficient. Someone who is actively seeking the truth will evaluate what they CAN see and then "take a step of faith", trusting that something which God has declared (but not yet revealed fully) will no doubt come to be.

    God is willing to do all that is necessary, but YOU must allow faith to work in you and believe in Him. If you are demanding "proof", well...

    Maranatha
     
  11. Greg Merrill

    Greg Merrill Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Jesus was speaking of "signs" (miracles), not proofs. The Bible doesn't teach that no proof will be given, in fact 1 Th 5:21 says "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." The Bible speaks of "knowing" beyond a shadow of a doubt (2 Corinthians 5:1; 1 John 5:13). The Bible speaks of "certainty" (1 Timothy 6:7).
    The Bible speaks of "confidence" (1 John 5:14). I have found it always reliable and trustworthy, not Satan, false religions, good churches, and bad churches, and the ideas of people. People that are attacking the Bible, people that are not supporting the Bible, I think will find themselves on shaky ground with God, and should consider they may be similar to those spoken of in Acts 5:38-39.
     
  12. XiconDestoroyah

    XiconDestoroyah New Member

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    When I saw this, I literally remembered a video talking about just this. Please, take a look:
    Tell me about what you guys think.
     
  13. gustavchristianartist

    gustavchristianartist Active Member

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    i wouldn't call it "unreasonable belief" i call it faith
    jesus has talked to me, but i can't prove it with an atheist
     
  14. gustavchristianartist

    gustavchristianartist Active Member

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    ok,ok. but you can't say this to an unbeliever and expect he believes you have a REVELATION
     
  15. gustavchristianartist

    gustavchristianartist Active Member

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    Again, the bible says... the bible says...
    the unbeliever won't believe in our book
     
  16. faroukfarouk

    faroukfarouk Fading curmudgeon

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    Hebrews 11.6:

    He that comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him'.

    So the unbeliever does not set the goal posts.

    Until the unbeliever comes to see the believer's premise, it's utterly futile to argue.
     
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  17. Apologetic_Warrior

    Apologetic_Warrior Pilgrim

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    Right, but what does he have? What standard of measure does the nonbeliever have? He cannot account for or justify immaterial universal laws of logic, conceptual realities, nor laws of nature such as the principal of induction. Seems to me Revelation is the high ground, and the nonbeliever is sneaking peaks.
     
  18. Greg Merrill

    Greg Merrill Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I hear your frustration, but we all start out as unbelievers, and it is the Word of God (Bible), along with the Holy Spirit, that God has given us for this age to win the lost. A burglar may not believe I have a gun, or believe I would use it if I had it, but if they are in my house, and push comes to shove, it won't matter what they believe, but I will use what works. Either the Bible along with the Holy Spirit will bring the desired effect, or there isn't much hope for a person, and the Bible will be their final judge (Luke 16:29-31; John 12:48; Hebrews 4:12; Colossians 4:16, and many more). Paul made the mistake of trying to win the unbeliever with human reasoning, and failed. He determined not to do that again (Acts 17:16-32;
    1 Corinthians 2:4; 1 Corinthians 1:18; 1 Corinthians 2:14; 2 Corinthians 4:3-4. We should follow Paul's example, 1 Corinthians 11:1.
     
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  19. gustavchristianartist

    gustavchristianartist Active Member

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    totally true brother, in the first posts i said, it's a matter of believing, faith
     
  20. GUANO

    GUANO Well-Known Member

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    It really depends on how you define "god".
     
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