We have 10 years to save Earth's biodiversity as mass extinction caused by humans takes hold, UN war

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Aldebaran

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Theology 101: The resurrection initiates reversal of the fall.

Anyone want to challenge this?

I'd rather see you prove that Christ's resurrection has anything to do with our relationship to the earth and how it has suddenly become the Garden of Eden again. Show me a quote from Jesus or any of His Apostles in the NT regarding that subject and we'll go from there.
 
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Aldebaran

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If only man was shown out of the garden there would be nothing to take care of.

So the garden must be something else, like where the Divine presence was.

Man was told he would have to toil the land, plus the earth was cursed.

But the animals were there with him.

Otherwise it becomes amusing, if man was shown out of the garden and all the animals birds and fish were in the garden still.

Even National Geographic shows us that the animals have fallen along with humanity. Some of what animals do to each other puts what humans do to shame.
 
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civilwarbuff

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Theology 101: The resurrection initiates reversal of the fall.

Anyone want to challenge this?
What does this have to do with where this conversation has taken us?.....seems to be a deflection.....
 
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durangodawood

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Sometimes, like now, Christianity seems like a life-denying, creation-hating slog.

As if all the other creatures and places in the world count for nothing.
I would say people's hearts have seriously hardened in this regard.

Leaving aside that particulars of the various problems/solutions, just the general attitude is something like sickness bordering on insanity.

Some years ago I heard James Watt live on Christian radio, shortly after he was removed as Reagan's Sec of Interior. He said we need to do nothing to protect the living world because the end times are surely right around the corner. I'm sticking with my insanity diagnosis.

This was the USA Secretary of Interior, people.
 
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civilwarbuff

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Otherwise it becomes amusing, if man was shown out of the garden and all the animals birds and fish were in the garden still.
Man still had dominion over the animals given to him by God....see Genesis.....
 
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Robban

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Even National Geographic shows us that the animals have fallen along with humanity. Some of what animals do to each other puts what humans do to shame.

Yeah, but there are better times ahead when a baby will play with a lion etc.

Or so it goes. :)
 
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Aldebaran

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Yeah, but there are better times ahead when a baby will play with a lion etc.

Or so it goes. :)

Yes, after Christ returns and the creation is restored. But that won't be due to anything we've done through excessive taxation or destruction of economies.
 
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Robban

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Yes, after Christ returns and the creation is restored. But that won't be due to anything we've done through excessive taxation or destruction of economies.


All the more reason to invest in the heavenly bank account.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Are you, or are you not, willing to debate Jesus’ status as King based on the Scriptures?

Re an earlier post if yours: yes Satan is “god” of this world.

Satan is running things now, not Christ, that was my only point, and why you want to debate what you want to debate is beyond me, but I have no interest in debating off the wall subjects that I never even disagreed with.
 
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Hazelelponi

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Re climate change I wonder how the reckoning will play out in deniers' minds as their position seems increasingly flat-earthy over time.


It's not "flat earthy" to see the attempts being made by self proclaimed "climate change" specialists to turn climate change into a global push for controlling the masses, and attempting to push us all into an unelected global government who will save us from ourselves...

It is they who are the real danger, not me and my desire to make it to the grocery store once a week, and the doctor once a month.
 
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Hazelelponi

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Satan is running things now, not Christ, that was my only point, and why you want to debate what you want to debate is beyond me, but I have no interest in debating off the wall subjects that I never even disagreed with.

The one who restrains is still restraining. You'll know when He is done the climate change specialists will finally get their dreams fulfilled.

For now, satan is properly chained. It doesn't mean he doesnt rule the nations (and not God's people as we are free) it just means he doesnt have full and free reign over them to unite as one kingdom under him.
 
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Kenny'sID

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The one who restrains is still restraining. You'll know when He is done the climate change specialists will finally get their dreams fulfilled.

For now, satan is properly chained. It doesn't mean he doesnt rule the nations (and not God's people as we are free) it just means he doesnt have full and free reign over them to unite as one kingdom under him.

Exactly, Satan's spirit is alive and well.
 
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expos4ever

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At least one poster here seems to be arguing that since the Adamic instruction was given before the fall, it no longer applies after the fall?

Well, why not? Even if we grant the world did change dramatically at the fall, how, exactly, does it follow that we should not continue to obey the injunction to care for the earth?

In any event, there is a powerful Biblical argument that Jesus reverses the fall - or, at the very least, inaugurates a phase of God's redemptive that progressively reverses the curse.

Many evangelicals think about this too simply - they will clamour for a "verse" that supports this idea.

Well, with a little thinking, it is easy to see that Jesus does indeed initiate reversal of the fall, with the obvious implication that we have to "resurrect" the mandate to care for God's creation.

That we should even need to make this case is exceedingly bizarre in any event - what kind of thinking leads to the conclusion that we can pillage and despoil God's creation even if the fall hadn't been reversed?

Anyhoo, here are some clues as to why the resurrection brings about a "new Eden":

- Jesus is raised on the 8th day! In the Eden account, God works for 6 days and rests on day 7. Is it a coincidence that Jesus is raised on the 8th day? I doubt it - it is a potent signal that new creation has begun.

- In the same spirit, when she first sees the resurrected Jesus thinks He is the gardener. Coincidence? Or is it a clever narrative signal that, yes, we are dealing with redeemed Eden?

- What does Paul tell us? If any man is in Christ, he is.....what? A new creation. Again, echoes of Eden.

And there is much more.
 
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Hazelelponi

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At least one poster here seems to be arguing that since the Adamic instruction was given before the fall, it no longer applies after the fall?

Well, why not? Even if we grant the world did change dramatically at the fall, how, exactly, does it follow that we should not continue to obey the injunction to care for the earth?

In any event, there is a powerful Biblical argument that Jesus reverses the fall - or, at the very least, inaugurates a phase of God's redemptive that progressively reverses the curse.

Many evangelicals think about this too simply - they will clamour for a "verse" that supports this idea.

Well, with a little thinking, it is easy to see that Jesus does indeed initiate reversal of the fall, with the obvious implication that we have to "resurrect" the mandate to care for God's creation.

That we should even need to make this case is exceedingly bizarre in any event - what kind of thinking leads to the conclusion that we can pillage and despoil God's creation even if the fall hadn't been reversed?

Anyhoo, here are some clues as to why the resurrection brings about a "new Eden":

- Jesus is raised on the 8th day! In the Eden account, God works for 6 days and rests on day 7. Is it a coincidence that Jesus is raised on the 8th day? I doubt it - it is a potent signal that new creation has begun.

- In the same spirit, when she first sees the resurrected Jesus thinks He is the gardener. Coincidence? Or is it a clever narrative signal that, yes, we are dealing with redeemed Eden?

- What does Paul tell us? If any man is in Christ, he is.....what? A new creation. Again, echoes of Eden.

And there is much more.

1st, the end of the world will be man's creation.. not God's, and its heralded by certain courses of events - none of which I'm rushing gleefully toward. I trust God, it doesn't mean I plan on setting up Satan's kingdom for him for to do that would be my downfall.

Second, necessity is the mother of invention, not men forcing other mens hand. We are not yet to a point where alternatives to our current system are able to be put in the hands of the masses.

You remember when flat screen TV'S were almost 15,000 dollars? I do.. and it was out of most everyone's budget for a television. Plasma televisions has since been replaced with less expensive equipment like the OLED and LED screens.

Now flat screens are in the hands of the masses, and nearly everyone has one.

The same thing has to happen to alternative energy - BEFORE you demand every one switch to alternative energy. And you can't force it, or force people unless your planning on furnishing these things to people - which is ridiculous.

We have to wait until less expensive methods of alternative energy is found, and then people will adopt it with the poor adopting it last.

The U.S. is a leader in cutting emissions, but we are also a very large nation... we have many who live two hours by car from their place of employment, others who have a necessary for 4 wheel drive in the winter just to get to work and other considerations for manufacturing and more.

Make our manufacturing more difficult and product pricing increases, then they can't compete on the global market (who isnt concerned in the least with their carbon footprint) and there's fewer jobs and a lower GDP which hurts our economy.

Manufacturing has hit it's limit on cuts in this country without cheaper alternatives, and people? Very few can afford proposals such as switching their homes to solar or wind power in 5 years..

Climate change religionists are expecting the impossible, and trying to force governments to make sweeping changes that will only hurt people in the end. Put a 10 year deadline on me having solar power on my home and in 10 years I won't have power which I need to survive - I'll be in my yard to cook over an open fire, disabled and suffering without a refrigerator to keep my food cold.

Putting deadlines on these things only serve to restrict movement and place energy and transportation in the hands of either government or unelected bodies and neither is acceptable.

However, if you let things progress naturally, then someday, sooner rather than later, a less expensive means and methods of alternative energy will be found, and the masses will joyfully adopt the new.

We are at a stage where these various things are still prohibitive... and you have to have patience until new things are developed and prices drop quite naturally.

You can't force it, and sounding like the crazy nut screaming the end is nigh doesn't help your cause.
 
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expos4ever

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You can't force it, and sounding like the crazy nut screaming the end is nigh doesn't help your cause.
I am not sure what your point is. If it is that we should try to develop new, cleaner energy technologies, then I am in agreement.

Let's be clear, though: the real craziness is to deny fact - human beings have created a serious problem that we need to deal with.

It was one things when evangelicals, against all evidence, insist that the earth is 6000 years old - this does not directly hurt anyone. But when you deny that we need to deal with climate - by invoking fantasy conspiracy theories - the consequences can be dire indeed.

This is because these misguided people vote. For people like Donald Trump. Who, in turn, does things that literally jeopardize the future of our planet.

The deniers will never loosen their iron grip on their fantasies about scientists conspiring to take away their fun - they cannot be won over.

They need to be outvoted.
 
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1st, the end of the world will be man's creation.. not God's, and its heralded by certain courses of events - none of which I'm rushing gleefully toward. I trust God, it doesn't mean I plan on setting up Satan's kingdom for him for to do that would be my downfall.

Second, necessity is the mother of invention, not men forcing other mens hand. We are not yet to a point where alternatives to our current system are able to be put in the hands of the masses.

You remember when flat screen TV'S were almost 15,000 dollars? I do.. and it was out of most everyone's budget for a television. Plasma televisions has since been replaced with less expensive equipment like the OLED and LED screens.

Now flat screens are in the hands of the masses, and nearly everyone has one.

The same thing has to happen to alternative energy - BEFORE you demand every one switch to alternative energy. And you can't force it, or force people unless your planning on furnishing these things to people - which is ridiculous.

We have to wait until less expensive methods of alternative energy is found, and then people will adopt it with the poor adopting it last.

The U.S. is a leader in cutting emissions, but we are also a very large nation... we have many who live two hours by car from their place of employment, others who have a necessary for 4 wheel drive in the winter just to get to work and other considerations for manufacturing and more.

Make our manufacturing more difficult and product pricing increases, then they can't compete on the global market (who isnt concerned in the least with their carbon footprint) and there's fewer jobs and a lower GDP which hurts our economy.

Manufacturing has hit it's limit on cuts in this country without cheaper alternatives, and people? Very few can afford proposals such as switching their homes to solar or wind power in 5 years..

Climate change religionists are expecting the impossible, and trying to force governments to make sweeping changes that will only hurt people in the end. Put a 10 year deadline on me having solar power on my home and in 10 years I won't have power which I need to survive - I'll be in my yard to cook over an open fire, disabled and suffering without a refrigerator to keep my food cold.

Putting deadlines on these things only serve to restrict movement and place energy and transportation in the hands of either government or unelected bodies and neither is acceptable.

However, if you let things progress naturally, then someday, sooner rather than later, a less expensive means and methods of alternative energy will be found, and the masses will joyfully adopt the new.

We are at a stage where these various things are still prohibitive... and you have to have patience until new things are developed and prices drop quite naturally.

You can't force it, and sounding like the crazy nut screaming the end is nigh doesn't help your cause.

Excellent post!
 
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